C Jiri Kulich - Rochester Americans, AHL (2022, 28th, BUF)

[Bevans]

Its rise has been meteoric for 1 year.

Now I clearly rate him as an elite Czech talent like Jiricek or Sale whereas last year I saw him behind Hamara.

Impressive. Such a trajectory between 17 and 18 years old is extremely rare.

And the fact that his progress is repeated and accentuated suggests that it is not a coincidence coinciding with the year of the NHL draft.

This should continue this season

Between his trajectory and shot volume he's starting to sound like a poor man's Jack Quinn.

 

[Belloco]

Between his trajectory and shot volume he's starting to sound like a poor man's Jack Quinn.

Jack Quinn - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jack Quinn, 2001-09-19 Cobden, ON, CAN Canada. Most recently in the NHL with Buffalo Sabres. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Jiří Kulich - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jiří Kulich, 2004-04-14 Kadan, CZE Czechia. Most recently in the NHL with Buffalo Sabres. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Rather the opposite

 

[Bevans]

Jack Quinn - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jack Quinn, 2001-09-19 Cobden, ON, CAN Canada. Most recently in the NHL with Buffalo Sabres. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Jiří Kulich - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Jiří Kulich, 2004-04-14 Kadan, CZE Czechia. Most recently in the NHL with Buffalo Sabres. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Rather the opposite

Remind me which one didn't have a surprisingly great draft year fueled by high shot volume?

 

[Belloco]

Remind me which one didn't have a surprisingly great draft year fueled by high shot volume?

None. But in sports performance, to say that Kulich is the Quinn of the poor, reading the career sheets according to their age should lead you to revise this statement.

 

[Bevans]

None. But in sports performance, to say that Kulich is the Quinn of the poor, reading the career sheets according to their age should lead you to revise this statement.

I honestly have no idea what you're saying and you're not explaining yourself, so unfortunately I have nothing with which to revise my comment.

 

[Belloco]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying and you're not explaining yourself, so unfortunately I have nothing with which to revise my comment.

Kulich is better than Quinn at the same age.

 

[Bevans]

Kulich is better than Quinn at the same age.

So you're objecting to the concept that paying a 28th for a prospect is cheaper than paying an 8th?

I would suggest that Quinn was more expensive as the pick used was higher.

Kulich could well be better. But I, like most, would think that Quinn is currently ahead of him.

 

[Belloco]

So you're objecting to the concept that paying a 28th for a prospect is cheaper than paying an 8th?

I would suggest that Quinn was more expensive as the pick used was higher.

Kulich could well be better. But I, like most, would think that Quinn is currently ahead of him.

Draft rank does not mean player value. Many (podcast that i follow, me) thought Kulich was better than Ostlund before the tournament and I am one of them. Many also thought Quinn was an 8th-ranked reach.

Sportingly, Kulich's 2021/22 season is more significant than Quinn's 2020/21 season.

I'm sure if there was a redraft, Quinn wouldn't be 8 and Kulich would already be way over 28 after this tournament.

Kulich's U18 and U20 tournaments are similar to an elite player. Quinn never did that.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Draft rank does not mean player value. Many (podcast that i follow, me) thought Kulich was better than Ostlund before the tournament and I am one of them. Many also thought Quinn was an 8th-ranked reach.

Sportingly, Kulich's 2021/22 season is more significant than Quinn's 2020/21 season.

I'm sure if there was a redraft, Quinn wouldn't be 8 and Kulich would already be way over 28 after this tournament.

Kulich's U18 and U20 tournaments are similar to an elite player. Quinn never did that.

Quinn is good value at the 8th pick. Kulich would likely go higher but not significantly higher.

 

[BKarchitect]

Luckily the Sabres don’t have to choose at the moment. Not all of these kids are gonna max out and some will inevitably be trade bait for actual NHL help but they killed the 2022 draft and now have a system so dense with talent it’s hard not to envision a rise for that franchise coming pretty soon. Reminds me of the Kings system of a year or two ago…not every guy has totally panned out but there are so many good prospects and assets that the rebuild starts to get very accelerated.

 

[Bevans]

Draft rank does not mean player value. Many (podcast that i follow, me) thought Kulich was better than Ostlund before the tournament and I am one of them. Many also thought Quinn was an 8th-ranked reach.

Sportingly, Kulich's 2021/22 season is more significant than Quinn's 2020/21 season.

I'm sure if there was a redraft, Quinn wouldn't be 8 and Kulich would already be way over 28 after this tournament.

Kulich's U18 and U20 tournaments are similar to an elite player. Quinn never did that.

As a big kulich fan I disagree with all of this.

Weird to be so disappointed with Quinn dominating the AHL. Tough crowd.

 

[Belloco]

As a big kulich fan I disagree with all of this.

Weird to be so disappointed with Quinn dominating the AHL. Tough crowd.

Nothing exceptional to dominate in AHL at U21. In spirit, Quinn is rather a 2001 player like Mercer, Lafrenière but also Zegras, Caufield, etc.

 

[Lavar Ball]

Kulich is better than Quinn at the same age.

Don't agree with this, and I love Kulich. He should have gone top 20. But Quinn was a top 10 talent in a better draft. And he has been nothing short of fantastic since being drafted, not sure how you are trying to argue that.

 

[Bevans]

Don't agree with this, and I love Kulich. He should have gone top 20. But Quinn was a top 10 talent in a better draft. And he has been nothing short of fantastic since being drafted, not sure how you are trying to argue that.

Exactly, to all of the above.

 

[Belloco]

Don't agree with this, and I love Kulich. He should have gone top 20. But Quinn was a top 10 talent in a better draft. And he has been nothing short of fantastic since being drafted, not sure how you are trying to argue that.

1 Tim Stutzle
2 Anton Lundell
3 Lucas Raymond
4 Seth Jarvis
5 Jamie Drysdale
6 Alexis Lafreniere
7 Dawson Mercer
8 Jake Sanderson
9 Braden Schneider
10 Alexander Holtz
11 Cole Perfetti
12 Jack Quinn
13 Thomas Bordeleau
14 Quinton Byfield
15 Yaroslav Askarov
16 Marco Rossi

It mas my current top 15 mi-august (hfboards topic)

I had Kulich 21 day 1 before the draft. If i should make another ranking, he'll be in front of McGroarty (14).

His performances at the U18-U20 tournament are not common.

As for the draft level, that's nonsense.

From year to year, it doesn't change that much.

Minds are swayed by headliners.

At 20-21, Mukhamadullin and Chinakhov were selected. Better than Miroshnichenko and Pickering? I don't believe.

 

[FlyguyOX]

This thread got weird. Love kulich but need him to show more statistical success over a large season sample. Great wjc’s though

 

[FourQuarters]

I don't get it…Why are you trying to compare two kids who haven't really made the NHL? One of them even just finished his draft year…

 

[Bevans]

1 Tim Stutzle
2 Anton Lundell
3 Lucas Raymond
4 Seth Jarvis
5 Jamie Drysdale
6 Alexis Lafreniere
7 Dawson Mercer
8 Jake Sanderson
9 Braden Schneider
10 Alexander Holtz
11 Cole Perfetti
12 Jack Quinn
13 Thomas Bordeleau
14 Quinton Byfield
15 Yaroslav Askarov
16 Marco Rossi

It mas my current top 15 mi-august (hfboards topic)

I had Kulich 21 day 1 before the draft. If i should make another ranking, he'll be in front of McGroarty (14).

His performances at the U18-U20 tournament are not common.

As for the draft level, that's nonsense.

From year to year, it doesn't change that much.

Minds are swayed by headliners.

At 20-21, Mukhamadullin and Chinakhov were selected. Better than Miroshnichenko and Pickering? I don't believe.

We get it you over react to extremely small sample sizes.

Let the kids play some hockey.

 

[thrillhous]

Nothing exceptional to dominate in AHL at U21.

This is an incorrect statement, it absolutely is exceptional to dominate the AHL at U21 as it is typically the player’s first full season in the AHL, which demonstrates quick adjustment to a higher level of play and playing against men rather than juniors.

Quinn’s U21 season (and he was a young U21) was one of the best U21 seasons of recent memory. Only better points per game for a U21 player in the last 10 years (minimum 10 games played) was Kucherov. Last 20 years the only better ones were Getzlaf, Perry, Cammalleri, Radulov, Kucherov.

Not exceptional indeed.

 

[Ace]

I’m a Kulich truther but the take of “Quinn dominating the AHL at 20 despite dealing with mono, injuries and coming off a mostly lost season due to covid shutting down leagues isn’t as impressive as this 7 game sample size against not fully developed men” is one horrible take

 

[thrillhous]

I’m a Kulich truther but the take of “Quinn dominating the AHL at 20 despite dealing with mono, injuries and coming off a mostly lost season due to covid shutting down leagues isn’t as impressive as this 7 game sample size against not fully developed men” is one horrible take

And for the record I am a massive Kulich fan. And I’m not not a Sabres fan.

 

[Belloco]

This is an incorrect statement, it absolutely is exceptional to dominate the AHL at U21 as it is typically the player’s first full season in the AHL, which demonstrates quick adjustment to a higher level of play and playing against men rather than juniors.

Quinn’s U21 season (and he was a young U21) was one of the best U21 seasons of recent memory. Only better points per game for a U21 player in the last 10 years (minimum 10 games played) was Kucherov. Last 20 years the only better ones were Getzlaf, Perry, Cammalleri, Radulov, Kucherov.

Not exceptional indeed.

Your stats don't mean anything because the best players go straight to the NHL in most cases and have never played in the AHL.

If Peterka plays in the AHL this year, he'll probably do better than Quinn. During the playoffs, he clearly seems to have eclipsed Quinn.

An exceptional player Peterka ?

 

[Belloco]

We get it you over react to extremely small sample sizes.

Let the kids play some hockey.

Quite troubling for someone who thought of Kulich as poor man's Quinn after finishing his U18 season.

 

[Bevans]

Your stats don't mean anything because the best players go straight to the NHL in most cases and have never played in the AHL.

If Peterka plays in the AHL this year, he'll probably do better than Quinn. During the playoffs, he clearly seems to have eclipsed Quinn.

An exceptional player Peterka ?

Peterka and Quinn are in the same draft class and peterka already did an excellent job in the AHL. Yes, everyone would agree that peterka is a great prospect and has the potential to have a very strong NHL career. If he goes back to the AHL again then sure he'll likely to even better. Not controversial.

How else can you judge a player's season other than by comparing him to the historical players who were in the same league at the same age? As noted by poster above, Quinn is in same neighborhood as some very strong players.

Obviously players who take unique routes to NHL are harder to judge with comps, but that doesn't mean you just discount the great AHL season. See William Nylander.

Quite troubling for someone who thought of Kulich as poor man's Quinn after finishing his U18 season.

Quite troubling to mischaracterize what I said.

 

[Belloco]

Peterka and Quinn are in the same draft class and peterka already did an excellent job in the AHL. Yes, everyone would agree that peterka is a great prospect and has the potential to have a very strong NHL career. If he goes back to the AHL again then sure he'll likely to even better. Not controversial.

How else can you judge a player's season other than by comparing him to the historical players who were in the same league at the same age? As noted by poster above, Quinn is in same neighborhood as some very strong players.

Obviously players who take unique routes to NHL are harder to judge with comps, but that doesn't mean you just discount the great AHL season. See William Nylander.


Quite troubling to mischaracterize what I said.

I just shook up the AHL U21 stat chart and there are very few players falling into his category as most only play a few games. Bordeleau for example, aligns 5 points in 3 games then will play in the NHL. Radulov only played 11 games, Kucherov & Getzlaf only 17, Perry 19. W.Nylander played in NHL up to U20. Cammalleri ok, but it was another generation, when the NHL fielded a majority of thirtys on the ice.

The player ranked after Jack Quinn according to the criteria retained is Liam Foudy. And you can see that Jack Quinn, despite all the points, has a negative presence on the ice. So talking about domination, in addition to the fact that his record during the playoffs was catastrophic, is completely false.

You said (about draft -1 player) : "Between his trajectory and shot volume he's starting to sound like a poor man's Jack Quinn."

You said (about draft + 2 players) : "We get it you over react to extremely small sample sizes. Let the kids play some hockey."

No misrepresentation.