C Jiri Kulich - Rochester Americans, AHL (2022, 28th, BUF)

[FlyguyOX]

Do you have highlights or stats that show this great passing? Any examples at all? I'm mainly just going by what the scouts, coaches and adv stats say -- he almost never has any high danger passes, which people tend to put a lot of weight into these days.

He had one pretty amazing pass in the past tournament, but not enough to prove any development there yet. I'm hoping the Sabres development staff can work with him on that.

Sabres and Sam Ventura have really leaned in on analytics integration with their scouting and loved Kulich. I’d be surprised if they saw him as analytically weak. What you’re seeing may have something to do with the league he played in, I believe I’ve heard the Czech pro league is notoriously tough, strictures, and defensively oriented.

 

[Belloco]

+/- is also not everything and leaves out both context and the fact that hockey is a team sport.

Quinn was -6 in the regular season in 45 games, not the worst on the team and not the best. The team as a whole had a -16 goal differential and most of the roster had a negative +/-. They were playing ECHL depth Dmen for large parts of the season along with a goalie carousel.

Quinn was -8 in the playoffs. He was also focused on by opposing teams which allowed players like Peterka to thrive because they shifted Quinn and Peterka onto different lines. While he does need to figure out how to play through factors like this, that can take time.

Does Quinn need to improve his defensive play? Sure. However he is also relied upon for his scoring not his ability to get back defensively, not to mention the Dmen and Centers are far more important to team defensive play than the wingers.

Until Kulich proves otherwise Quinn is still the more high end prospect, and I say this with Kulich being one of my favorite Sabres prospects.

He has the worst +/- of his team in 2020-21 and during the P.O of 2021-22. The majority of players in the 2021-22 regular season have a better +/-. These things never happen to players who dominate a league.


When Jack Quinn was the age that Jiri Kulich is now, he didn't show everything that Kulich did. That's all I said and it will be impossible to contradict me. In two and a half years, Kulich will probably have achieved a lot. To do what Quinn did in the AHL by 2025, I think is well within reach.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

He has the worst +/- of his team in 2020-21 and during the P.O of 2021-22. The majority of players in the 2021-22 regular season have a better +/-. These things never happen to players who dominate a league.

He was 18 years old and had a hernia in 20-21 which he ended up having surgery to repair. Great he was the worst +/- on the team. He then came back as a 19 year old and scored at a ridiculous rate. That's called DEVELOPMENT. If he dominated everywhere he went he'd be McDavid.

When Jack Quinn was the age that Jiri Kulich is now, he didn't show everything that Kulich did. That's all I said and it will be impossible to contradict me. In two and a half years, Kulich will probably have achieved a lot. To do what Quinn did in the AHL by 2025, I think is well within reach.

What has Kulich shown? So far he played extremely well among his peers, Quinn did that also in his draft year. Are you going by their U20 scoring? If so they had different usages, and Quinn happened to play on a much deeper team Canada.

 

[Belloco]

So you acknowledge that your statement that dominating the AHL as a U21 player is “not exceptional” was incorrect and instead meant to argue that Quinn as a first rounder being in the AHL as a U21 makes him not exceptional. I won’t wade into anything related to Kulich v Quinn or anything about that. All I wanted to do was call you out on a BS statement. Glad you agree with me.

If you can't read a simple to understand message, you can't understand a complicated to understand game.

 

[DatDude44]

Sabres and Sam Ventura have really leaned in on analytics integration with their scouting and loved Kulich. I’d be surprised if they saw him as analytically weak. What you’re seeing may have something to do with the league he played in, I believe I’ve heard the Czech pro league is notoriously tough, strictures, and defensively oriented.

He's also not a savoie or robert thomas esque type of player anyway, he's never going to be a high danger setup man (which they have plenty of in Savoie, Ostlund and Krebs). He's more of a high danger finisher, with size, speed and hockey sense. He can distribute the puck fine, but it's not his elite trait or what makes him special. He can make passes when they are there, but in a let's say a 2 on 1 situation or attacking the net type of situation, he's almost always going to have a shoot first mentality, unless the D has a bad stick or over commits to him etc....

I luv the balance of scorers and playmakers the sabres are building in their pipeline and have been assembling on their pro roster. The nice thing too is they're the types of players that bring value in other areas as well, not just one trick ponys.

 

[Belloco]

He was 18 years old and had a hernia in 20-21 which he ended up having surgery to repair. Great he was the worst +/- on the team. He then came back as a 19 year old and scored at a ridiculous rate. That's called DEVELOPMENT. If he dominated everywhere he went he'd be McDavid.


What has Kulich shown? So far he played extremely well among his peers, Quinn did that also in his draft year. Are you going by their U20 scoring? If so they had different usages, and Quinn happened to play on a much deeper team Canada.

At Kulich's current age, Quinn was just starting to pile up the goals in a regional junior league with a very dominant team around him. Kulich would easily do that now.

Kulich already has a full pro year, an U18 tournament as MVP and a U20 tournament where he carried his team and was one of the best players during this tournament. What Quinn did in U20 was when Kulich will be in September 2023.

 

[FlyguyOX]

He's also not a savoie or robert thomas esque type of player anyway, he's never going to be a high danger setup man (which they have plenty of in Savoie, Ostlund and Krebs). He's more of a high danger finisher, with size, speed and hockey sense. He can distribute the puck fine, but it's not his elite trait or what makes him special. He can make passes when they are there, but in a let's say a 2 on 1 situation or attacking the net type of situation, he's almost always going to have a shoot first mentality, unless the D has a bad stick or over commits to him etc....

I luv the balance of scorers and playmakers the sabres are building in their pipeline and have been assembling on their pro roster. The nice thing too is they're the types of players that bring value in other areas as well, not just one trick ponys.

I like him because I think he’s got the speed and skating to contribute on the forecheck in addition to the dangerous scoring skills

 

[Matt Ress]

Geez can't we talk about how awesome Kulich AND Quinn are going to be.

 

[DatDude44]

Geez can't we talk about how awesome Kulich AND Quinn are going to be.

Bruh....we absolutely can. Excited to see them.....with Peterka, Thompson, Tuch, ostlund, savoie and cozens etc.... as well

 

[thrillhous]

If you can't read a simple to understand message, you can't understand a complicated to understand game.

I’m not wasting any more time with someone that doesn’t have a handle on the English language or logic. Good bye.

 

[Belloco]

I’m not wasting any more time with someone that doesn’t have a handle on the English language or logic. Good bye.

No logic. I have already told you that from the moment when the overwhelming majority of U21 prospects selected in the 1st round are already playing in the NHL, your statistics mean nothing because the players considered in your statistics have a limited level.

I listed you a considerable list of players born in 2001 having played in NHL and not being counted in your stat.

On the other hand, the statistic is even more nuanced because the player concerned is in negative presence and has had horrible playoffs. So that implies that Jack Quinn conceded a lot of on-ice goals and/or scored a lot of power play points.

Incredible to have to waste my time explaining simple things several times.

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

I’m a huge Kulich fan but even I have to concede that just going by U18 and U20 games is a bit near-sighted. Very small sample size of games.

I also don’t think going by his stats in Czechia is fair since that is a pro league with much older guys than him.

I would like to see how Kulich does in AHL this season. If he can have success immediately in the AHL, then I think we can really start talking about him as a top prospect…

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Kulich and Quinn are equal prospects with equal stats, but Kulich has better defense. Both can only dream of becoming as good as Pastrnak.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Geez can't we talk about how awesome Kulich AND Quinn are going to be.

NO! This thread has become incredibly entertaining over the last couple days. Keep it up fellas.

 

[Ace]

I’m a huge Kulich fan but even I have to concede that just going by U18 and U20 games is a bit near-sighted. Very small sample size of games.

I also don’t think going by his stats in Czechia is fair since that is a pro league with much older guys than him.

I would like to see how Kulich does in AHL this season. If he can have success immediately in the AHL, then I think we can really start talking about him as a top prospect…

You can definitely use his Czech league production in conversation as long as people understand it. I see a guy playing in a defensive heavy men’s league at 17 and putting up more points than the 18 and 19 year olds in the league…and somehow see the talking point that…he didn’t produce well….

I mean…I guess he didn’t produce well for a 25 year old? Which how could he? He was 17.

 

[Czechboy]

Every prospect is different but not many 18 year olds in AHL.

I ready earlier that the good players skipped the AHL and went straight to the NHL. That is true BUT most of them spent their d plus 1 season back home or in junior and then make the jump.

Not many 18 year olds make the NHL except the Crosby's and such.

I think kulich is a hell of a pick but if he went to the CHL I'd be fine with it. If he makes buffalo I'd be even more shocked. I'm not sure AHL is great for him. Jiricek it makes more sense IMO.

 

[LeProspector]

Buffalo is lucky - they were Debating this kid and Ostlund at 16 and Kulich fell down to 28 - they even tried to trade up many times with no suitors.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Every prospect is different but not many 18 year olds in AHL.

I ready earlier that the good players skipped the AHL and went straight to the NHL. That is true BUT most of them spent their d plus 1 season back home or in junior and then make the jump.

Not many 18 year olds make the NHL except the Crosby's and such.

I think kulich is a hell of a pick but if he went to the CHL I'd be fine with it. If he makes buffalo I'd be even more shocked. I'm not sure AHL is great for him. Jiricek it makes more sense IMO.

Give him a year to adapt to NA ice in Cape Breton, and hopefully dominate among his peers. Then he'll be much better prepared for the far more rigorous demands of the AHL in 23/24.

No need to rush him.

 

[Czechboy]

You can definitely use his Czech league production in conversation as long as people understand it. I see a guy playing in a defensive heavy men’s league at 17 and putting up more points than the 18 and 19 year olds in the league…and somehow see the talking point that…he didn’t produce well….

I mean…I guess he didn’t produce well for a 25 year old? Which how could he? He was 17.

Czech league production is very hard to gauge... barely has an NHLe because the leauge doesn't produce waves of NHLer's. Most of them leave for CHL, Finland or Sweden (don't blame them).

Eg. a guy like Michael Frolik is absolutely done in the NHL (unforutnately) and he will probably be a Top 5 scorer in the Czech league. It's a poor developmental league and usually hampers development. Having said that.. really happy 2 guys went in first round from Extraliga (Jiricek and Kulich) maybe more to come!

The path for a good young Czech to the NHL has a lot of obstacles in it vs other stronger nations. It's one of our biggest problems tbh. A crap Junior league and a corupt pro one.lol

 

[Belloco]

Give him a year to adapt to NA ice in Cape Breton, and hopefully dominate among his peers. Then he'll be much better prepared for the far more rigorous demands of the AHL in 23/24.

No need to rush him.

European players who have established themselves among the seniors in Europe rarely come to play in the CHL. It will most likely continue in Czechia.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

European players who have established themselves among the seniors in Europe rarely come to play in the CHL. It will most likely continue in Czechia.

He's signed. Sabres' management is pretty much in control of the situation.

We can only guess at their intentions, but developing his game relatively nearby, on the same sized rinks as Buffalo's, against contemporaries in a league devoted to producing NHL players, and easing his way into NA culture would be convincing factors.

 

[Belloco]

He's signed. Sabres' management is pretty much in control of the situation.

We can only guess at their intentions, but developing his game relatively nearby, on the same sized rinks as Buffalo's, against contemporaries in a league devoted to producing NHL players, and easing his way into NA culture would be convincing factors.

He is announced on loan to his former club.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

He is announced on loan to his former club.

Thanks. Would you mind providing a link, please?

 

[Belloco]

Thanks. Would you mind providing a link, please?

Eliteprospect's profile

They are quite reliable

 

[FlyguyOX]

Eliteprospect's profile

They are quite reliable

Not in this case. Seen more reports he’ll start in AHL