C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft) Part III
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Hokinaittii
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- Aug 15, 2015
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I agree that it's kind of dumb to question Hughes' skating, especially based on the clip ijuka posted. Just like any other prospect, Hughes also has some flaws in his game but skating isn't one of those flaws.
I'm getting flashbacks to the Matthews vs. Laine debates.
I'm all for healthy debate but I don't get why Kakko's fans feel the need to try and completely trash Hughes - is it a nationalistic pride thing?
You don't see Americans in the Kakko thread downplaying his accomplishments because he's not from the states.
I'm all for healthy debate but I don't get why Kakko's fans feel the need to try and completely trash Hughes - is it a nationalistic pride thing?
You don't see Americans in the Kakko thread downplaying his accomplishments because he's not from the states.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I mean continuing to argue the goal scoring virtues when Hughes is a playmaker first and foremost and significantly better passer than Matthews also doesn't help this argument in my opinion. They are different players which is a part of why Kane is mentioned even when you say he is a far better goal scorer and don't like it, especially when younger Kane was a pass first player that derived most of his goal scoring prowess from release and hockey IQ, the same manner with which Hughes actually scores. It isn't a mistake that Hughes listed his shot as his primary focus last night, but burying the lead that he is perhaps the most gifted passer of the puck to come through the program isn't really a fair way to craft the argument either in my opinion.
To the old Kakko vs Hughes debate that always happens, as a USA Hockey fan, I hope the New Jersey makes the mistake of thinking this is an actual competition in terms of who to take #1 overall. Dropping a face of USA Hockey on the Rangers instead of the Devils is likely good for the sport in the States long-term. Now fear not Devils fans I don't think Shero is going to make that mistake at all, but if it does happen Hughes to the Rangers with a chip on his shoulder would be spectacular for USA hockey in my opinion.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Lol. It's a good distraction. I'm torn here. As a Rangers fan I would love Hughes in New York but as a fan of USA Hockey you want to see him go #1. Win/win I suppose however it shakes out. If you see him go #2 I'm not going to fall on my sword or anything like that.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I think Hughes has a much better shot than he gets credit for. If he didn't have such a low shooting percentage this season, there wouldn't be as much discussion about his shot. Part of SH% is how good you are at shooting, but luck plays much more of a part in SH% than shooting ability. 99% of NHL players shoot very similar percentages.
Younger Kane scored a goal a game in the OHL in his draft year. He was always a much more willing and better shooter. His shot was always better at comparable ages to Hughes. As stated, Hughes is closer to Barzal and Marner in makeup and skill-set than Kane. Those are still two very-high-end young players. Kane was always capable of beating goalies from farther out due to his shot at the same point. It wasn't just release and Iq, he had power behind his shot.
His shot will improve, but to say to Kane levels I think is reaching. It is more likely to stay similar to guys like Marner and Giroux.
Jerzey Devil
Jerzey-Duz-It
Why does it seem everyone on HF is on the Rangers nut sack? The majority of Devils are USA players and for the most part they have always been.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
It's about the same as Marner's with the Knights, having seen both. I wouldn't overrate his shot. He's more likely to be a Marner, Barzal, and Giroux type producer than Kane. That's still a high-end player, but his shot is likely to end up significantly closer to Marner and Giroux than Kane.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
Ignore the fact that Kane played with two playmakers in Gagner and Kostitsyn while Hughes plays with Boldy and Caufield who have a combined 62 assists in 55 games. Hughes also ran a cold sh% compared to the previous year.
Hughes has never been a goal-scorer. It's not his style of play. He's always been a heavily pass first player, even when he was in AAA, which helped Graeme Clark score at a ridiculous rate with the Marlies. He's not likely to be a continual 30+ goal guy in the NHL, its not his skill-set or how he tends to play the game. His stat line is likely to be more in the Marner/Giroux/Barzal line than a guy who continually paces to break 30 goals. That's still an elite player.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
You keep trying to compare him to those 3 players yet none of them were considered near generational talents. I'll reserve my own thoughts on Hughes once I get a good look at the under 18.
Interesting that all of the names you mentioned (including Kane) have exceeded expectations from when they were drafted. Was Marner expected to produce 94 pts in his 3rd year? Barzal ppg in his first season? Giroux multiple 100 pt seasons? Even Kane as a 1OA has probably exceeded what was expected of him. Point being I think it's dangerous to put limits on players who especially are reliant on their skill and hockey IQ rather than traits like size.
Hughes isn't near generational, and yet Kane wasn't even considered near generational (who people are trying to compare him to). People were more excited about the upcoming Stamkos and Tavares classes in 2007. Hell, Central Scouting was insane enough to put Turris ahead of him. Hughes is an average to good 1st overall pick. Either way, they all have had elite production years in the NHL. Players can exceed whatever original expectations were for the player (Kane) or dramatically underachieve them (Yakupov).
Yes, but then there really is no discussion to be head. We can only really talk about the likelihood of outcomes. You can do the same thing with players with size though, no one expected Jamie Benn to be what he became, same with Blake Wheeler.
Hischier and Hughes
“I love to hockey”
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Average to good 1st overall
Youre trying so hard to discredit him it is actually laughable
Produces as much if not better than Matthews yet is only an average prospect lmfao
What are the chances that there may just not be a comparable player to an 18 year old who hasn't been scrutinized near as much as other potential 1OAs. Maybe he's gonna be his own kind of player.
Here's a list of the first overall in the last decade. Its pretty funny seeing the Johnny come lately's tell people who've actually followed the prospect for 3 years about that player because they just won the lottery, and like a couple soundbites
2009: Tavares
2010: Hall
2011: RNH
2012: Yakupov
2013: MacKinnon
2014: Ekblad
2015: McDavid
2016: Matthews
2017: Hischier
2018: Dahlin
The only players I think he clearly goes above are RNH, Yakupov, Ekblad and Hischier. I think he has a decent shot of going ahead of Hall and MacKinnon, but it's far from a lock, he'd have an uphill battle vs Matthews, Dahlin and Tavares, and McDavid is a lock to go above him. This is only looking at how they were valued at the day of their draft or how Hughes is valued right now.
Looking at that, that pretty clearly puts him in the average to good 1st overall territory given recent history. At best he's two, but more likely in the 5-7 range. That is still an absolutely unreal list of players.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
His 16 year season was generational level. It torched Matthews and Eichel's 16 year seasons and even eclipsed Eichel's 17 year old season. He didn't increase his totals by much this season...so what. The U18 was mercy beating most teams and likely rolling lines. Nobody has come close to putting up 2.10 PPG on that team.
You also claimed Hischier had ~60 point upside if I remember correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), which is clearly idiotic with his trajectory as it stands today.
