C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft) Part III

[Love]

The NHL is not pond hockey, nor is one game a great barometer for large conclusions.

I don't think terms like "pond hockey" are helpful in these discussions especially when specifically related to Hughes' play style. His skating and hands are off the charts so of course he's going to dance around and I don't think that should be held against him especially with how the NHL is trending more and more towards speed and skill.

 

[ijuka]

That's true, but I think this effort to label Hughes' game as "pond hockey" isn't really fair. He's got a flair to his game-sure. Will he be able to dipsy-doodle at will at the NHL level? No. No one can really do that. He is though the most skilled player in this draft and that is why he has retained his status as the top prospect even if he has some warts (like size and strength.). I do agree with your assertion that his shot is better than advertised. Hes not going to blow people away ala Laine, Matthews, or Eichel but does have a very quick release and is accurate.

Do you happen to have clips of him showing off his stick skills and such, by the way? Just so we can verify this statement.

Just in-game situations would do, of course.

 

[AmericanDream]

Do you happen to have clips of him showing off his stick skills and such, by the way? Just so we can verify this statement.

Just in-game situations would do, of course.

you need clips of him being the most skilled player in this draft to prove it??? are you serious???

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That's true, but I think this effort to label Hughes' game as "pond hockey" isn't really fair. He's got a flair to his game-sure. Will he be able to dipsy-doodle at will at the NHL level? No. No one can really do that. He is though the most skilled player in this draft and that is why he has retained his status as the top prospect even if he has some warts (like size and strength.). I do agree with your assertion that his shot is better than advertised. Hes not going to blow people away ala Laine, Matthews, or Eichel but does have a very quick release and is accurate.

I shouldn't have used short-hand for this because it was bound to be misconstrued. I've talked about this before.

I don't think Hughes is a pond-hockey player that can't have success in the NHL. I think he'll be a very good NHL player, but Hughes is the type of player that I see being a lot better of a junior hockey player than an NHL player. The NHL game is played a lot different, a lot more structured. Hughes thrives in a pond hockey game because his speed and skill are the best there is in this draft. If you put him in a game where the players are bigger than him, they give better effort, he can't skate around the o-zone in a circle for 30 seconds with the puck on a string, I think he won't be as effective.

 

[AmericanDream]

I shouldn't have used short-hand for this because it was bound to be misconstrued. I've talked about this before.

I don't think Hughes is a pond-hockey player that can't have success in the NHL. I think he'll be a very good NHL player, but Hughes is the type of player that I see being a lot better of a junior hockey player than an NHL player. The NHL game is played a lot different, a lot more structured. Hughes thrives in a pond hockey game because his speed and skill are the best there is in this draft. If you put him in a game where the players are bigger than him, they give better effort, he can't skate around the o-zone in a circle for 30 seconds with the puck on a string, I think he won't be as effective.

agreed, but players like Kane, Gaudreau and Hughes simply think the game at a level others do not. they are two steps ahead of their competition and when you are that skilled and smart on the ice these types typically adjust to their competition easier than the norm. Hughes is playing the way he does right now because he is allowed to and the competition is obviously not the NHL. he will adjust to his level of competition the same way Gaudreau and Kane did IMO..

 

[ddawg1950]

I shouldn't have used short-hand for this because it was bound to be misconstrued. I've talked about this before.

I don't think Hughes is a pond-hockey player that can't have success in the NHL. I think he'll be a very good NHL player, but Hughes is the type of player that I see being a lot better of a junior hockey player than an NHL player. The NHL game is played a lot different, a lot more structured. Hughes thrives in a pond hockey game because his speed and skill are the best there is in this draft. If you put him in a game where the players are bigger than him, they give better effort, he can't skate around the o-zone in a circle for 30 seconds with the puck on a string, I think he won't be as effective.

A large assumption here that his game can't or won't evolve. His speed is impressive, but it's not his only skill. He has an obvious ability to see the ice, read and anticipate the play and find the open spot or open man. That's what he's coming in with.

I do agree that it is difficult to predict development curves, particularly with smaller players who may find the physical demands of the NHL more than they thought possible.

But the league has found a place for smaller players these last few years. I think Hughes is going to be an impact player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think terms like "pond hockey" are helpful in these discussions especially when specifically related to Hughes' play style. His skating and hands are off the charts so of course he's going to dance around and I don't think that should be held against him especially with how the NHL is trending more and more towards speed and skill.

No, it is pond hockey. I think its important to figure out how each players game will translate to the NHL. They scored 22 goals in a two game stretch last week. Thats not going to happen in the NHL. Hughes is the biggest beneficiary on the team of the pond hockey style because of his speed and skill.

Hughes creates the most scoring chances and has the best puck-possession just about every game I've seen him play of every team I've seen him play for. He's the best there is on this team at that, yet I don't think he's the best NHL prospect on this team. Being the best at junior hockey is not the same as being the best NHL prospect. I don't agree with concluding that Hughes plays the best of all the players at that style of hockey, and therefore we must conclude that he's the best NHL prospect. The NHL is a different game.

I'm no Hughes hater, but I've started moving him down my draft board, and thats only because I like what I've seen from other players. I now have him ranked 4th. I said at the beginning of the season that his position on my draft board would be dictated by what others do. Right now, I think I can project a lot more variety to what Turcotte, Cozens and Kakko will bring in the NHL than what Hughes will bring, and I don't think the offensive difference is big enough to give the edge to Hughes as a better player in the NHL. Thats only my opinion though, but I've been consistent about this, and I've never disliked Hughes, like some do. I think there's long been a problem with separating what he brings to a junior hockey game and what he will bring to an NHL game.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Hughes thrives in a pond hockey game because his speed and skill are the best there is in this draft. If you put him in a game where the players are bigger than him, they give better effort, he can't skate around the o-zone in a circle for 30 seconds with the puck on a string, I think he won't be as effective.

Barzal does this all the time. I don't see why Hughes can't.

 

[ijuka]

you need clips of him being the most skilled player in this draft to prove it??? are you serious???

So you have no clips? Hmm... Well, simply because from what I've seen, I'd say he's not. So I'd like to see clips of him at his best.

And PB, while I might not agree about everything, having Hughes at #4 takes some balls.

 

[AmericanDream]

So you have no clips? Hmm... Well, simply because from what I've seen, I'd say he's not. So I'd like to see clips of him at his best.

And PB, while I might not agree about everything, having Hughes at #4 takes some balls.

there are hundreds of clips, literally everywhere...go look it up yourself lol...

 

[Kevin Musto]

So you have no clips? Hmm... Well, simply because from what I've seen, I'd say he's not. So I'd like to see clips of him at his best.

And PB, while I might not agree about everything, having Hughes at #4 takes some balls.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Do you happen to have clips of him showing off his stick skills and such, by the way? Just so we can verify this statement.

Just in-game situations would do, of course.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

agreed, but players like Kane, Gaudreau and Hughes simply think the game at a level others do not. they are two steps ahead of their competition and when you are that skilled and smart on the ice these types typically adjust to their competition easier than the norm. Hughes is playing the way he does right now because he is allowed to and the competition is obviously not the NHL. he will adjust to his level of competition the same way Gaudreau and Kane did IMO..

I totally agree. But in my opinion, this goes back to the whole Matthews and Eichel debate with Hughes. A lot were looking at his stats preseason and last season, and saying that he must be as good as those players. He was as good as those players pre-draft against junior hockey players. Until the way the NHL game is played changes, I don't see him being as effective and valuable as those players in the pro game, and I never did.

Its not his fault that they are 3-4 inches taller than him and 40 pounds heavier, but other parts of the game like frame, compete level in all zones, turnovers, the areas of the zone he plays in, board play, face-offs, are more in his control, and I personally don't see him as projecting well in any of these areas of the game. A player like Brayden Point is a good example of how a skilled smaller player can significantly improve their ceiling by making sure they aren't a negative in areas of the game that probably take less talent to be good at than skating, playmaking, puck handling.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A large assumption here that his game can't or won't evolve. His speed is impressive, but it's not his only skill. He has an obvious ability to see the ice, read and anticipate the play and find the open spot or open man. That's what he's coming in with.

I do agree that it is difficult to predict development curves, particularly with smaller players who may find the physical demands of the NHL more than they thought possible.

But the league has found a place for smaller players these last few years. I think Hughes is going to be an impact player.

Look at the post above. I've explained my opinion on this many times. I have never criticized Hughes size. I've yet to see any development in these areas of Hughes game that he struggles with, and until he shows it, I think it limits his ceiling.

I think Hughes has been at a big disadvantage due to all the rhetoric surrounding his game. He's hyped incessantly and compared to all these players who projected much better than him to the NHL game pre-draft. I'm not saying that he has let that get to his head. Its not easy to make improvements, and I'm sure he's working on improving all areas of his game, but I don't think it helps when large parts of the game that will be important towards determining his eventual ability in the NHL are ignored because he's better than everyone else at pond hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Barzal does this all the time. I don't see why Hughes can't.

Barzal's complete game has improved a lot this season, despite scoring less points. Islander fans aren't any less happy with his play. And thats the point here. If Hughes improved in other areas of the game, his ceiling would be a lot higher.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Barzal's complete game has improved a lot this season, despite scoring less points. Islander fans aren't any less happy with his play. And thats the point here. If Hughes improved in other areas of the game, his ceiling would be a lot higher.

Hughes can improve. It's not like Hughes has reached his peak. He still has room to grow.

 

[Love]

No, it is pond hockey. I think its important to figure out how each players game will translate to the NHL. They scored 22 goals in a two game stretch last week. Thats not going to happen in the NHL. Hughes is the biggest beneficiary on the team of the pond hockey style because of his speed and skill.

Hughes creates the most scoring chances and has the best puck-possession just about every game I've seen him play of every team I've seen him play for. He's the best there is on this team at that, yet I don't think he's the best NHL prospect on this team. Being the best at junior hockey is not the same as being the best NHL prospect. I don't agree with concluding that Hughes plays the best of all the players at that style of hockey, and therefore we must conclude that he's the best NHL prospect. The NHL is a different game.

I'm no Hughes hater, but I've started moving him down my draft board, and thats only because I like what I've seen from other players. I now have him ranked 4th. I said at the beginning of the season that his position on my draft board would be dictated by what others do. Right now, I think I can project a lot more variety to what Turcotte, Cozens and Kakko will bring in the NHL than what Hughes will bring, and I don't think the offensive difference is big enough to give the edge to Hughes as a better player in the NHL. Thats only my opinion though, but I've been consistent about this, and I've never disliked Hughes, like some do. I think there's long been a problem with separating what he brings to a junior hockey game and what he will bring to an NHL game.

That's fine, I have no problem with you having that opinion although I disagree with it.

Like someone above said, Hughes is like Barzal. He's like a better skating Marner. Obviously he's not going to be able to dominate with ease like he does against USHL competition. But his through the roof skill, skating, intelligence, and fearlessness is totally transferable to the NHL level. I think you're getting caught up with apparent flaws in his unique play style that aren't really flaws, it's just off the charts talent in these specific areas. Also, is it pond hockey when Hughes plays agains NCAA competition? Because he still dominates at that level too.

Sometimes when I watch players with elite hands and skating at the NHL level it seems like they're toying with their opponents. You might call it "pond hockey" play style because it's as if they can dance around the ice and do whatever they want. I'm talking about Gaudreau, Kane, Pettersson, Datsyuk, Marner, Barzal, and McDavid. Guys like that have such a high level of talent that they can create time and space on their own just because of their hands and skating. Hughes is in that group and will be a able to do that in the NHL. Of course he won't be able to do it with the same frequency or ease that he does it in the USHL, but he's still going to to do and it will work.

 

[ijuka]

clips

Very consistent with what I've seen. So he just doesn't have the supersonic stickhandling speed that someone like MacKinnon has? Hmm...

If he doesn't do that stuff in games I've not seen I have to maintain my opinion that he's not the most skilled player of the draft at all. At least in that regard. Of course, he is in skating skills.

 

[AmericanDream]

Very consistent with what I've seen. So he just doesn't have the supersonic stickhandling speed that someone like MacKinnon has? Hmm...

If he doesn't do that stuff in games I've not seen I have to maintain my opinion that he's not the most skilled player of the draft at all. At least in that regard. Of course, he is in skating skills.

so you are comparing him to a 23 year old Mackinnon? this f***ing board.....

 

[Kakko the bust]

What is wrong with people dissing Hughes? Do they get joy out of it or something?

The only reason I changed my name to what it is now is because it annoys me to see people diss Hughes on his page but you go to Kakkos page and if you say he has 1 flaw, people flip on you.

He is going number one. Will go number one. 10/10 scouts have him number one.

Deal with it.

 

[bigdog16]

I totally agree. But in my opinion, this goes back to the whole Matthews and Eichel debate with Hughes. A lot were looking at his stats preseason and last season, and saying that he must be as good as those players. He was as good as those players pre-draft against junior hockey players. Until the way the NHL game is played changes, I don't see him being as effective and valuable as those players in the pro game, and I never did.

Its not his fault that they are 3-4 inches taller than him and 40 pounds heavier, but other parts of the game like frame, compete level in all zones, turnovers, the areas of the zone he plays in, board play, face-offs, are more in his control, and I personally don't see him as projecting well in any of these areas of the game. A player like Brayden Point is a good example of how a skilled smaller player can significantly improve their ceiling by making sure they aren't a negative in areas of the game that probably take less talent to be good at than skating, playmaking, puck handling.

Eichel was a turnover machine when he was with NTDP. He cleaned it up once he got to BU. But he was far from average in his own zone.

 

[bsu]

If someone does not take hughes #1, they will regret it and soon be fired after.

 

[Hokinaittii]

so you are comparing him to a 23 year old Mackinnon? this ****ing board.....

Stickhandling is one of the easiest things to master at young age though.

What is wrong with people dissing Hughes? Do they get joy out of it or something?

The only reason I changed my name to what it is now is because it annoys me to see people diss Hughes on his page but you go to Kakkos page and if you say he has 1 flaw, people flip on you.

He is going number one. Will go number one. 10/10 scouts have him number one.

Deal with it.

What a fantastic and mature way to deal with the issue. I'm sure people will learn to respect Hughes more after your efforts.

And we all know those 10 scouts are just Bob's margarita buddies from NA so ofc they are biased with their lists. Jokes aside, I wonder if some of those scouts view has changed in the last 3 months now that Kakko has found a new level in his game. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[TatarTangle]

Players at the junior level don't know how to take his time and space away, NHL players will. And great skating isn't exclusive to Jack Hughes, at least not as much as his fan club will lead you to believe. So what it will come down to for Hughes is how he learns to create space for himself at the NHL level.

I doubt this happens right away and a lot of people are going to he dissatisfied that he isn't putting up a PPG right away. IMO, the real test for him will be his third year; I think he'll struggle the first year but puts it all together at the end of it for a good sophmore year. That third year will be tough as teams change how to play against him and he will have to adapt again in order to reach the level he is clearly capable of. A lot of signs point to he can do it, I think it's just gonna take longer than what people are expecting.

 

[Kakko the bust]

Stickhandling is one of the easiest things to master at young age though.


What a fantastic and mature way to deal with the issue. I'm sure people will learn to respect Hughes more after your efforts.

And we all know those 10 scouts are just Bob's margarita buddies from NA so ofc they are biased with their lists. Jokes aside, I wonder if some of those scouts view has changed in the last 3 months now that Kakko has found a new level in his game. Maybe, maybe not.

That’s what I’m hoping