C Connor Bedard - Regina Pats, WHL (2023 Draft) Part 5

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Connor Bedard NHL Draft Lottery Regina Pats | TSN

New article on Bedard, but this caught my eye in the last paragraph:

With 28 games remaining in the Pats season, Bedard has a chance to break one more scoring record before heading to the NHL. At a pace of 2.41 points per game, Bedard is within striking distance of Brian Shantz’s CHL scoring record of 139 points in 1995-96.

Oh right, the legend of Brian Shantz!
 
Connor Bedard NHL Draft Lottery Regina Pats | TSN

New article on Bedard, but this caught my eye in the last paragraph:

With 28 games remaining in the Pats season, Bedard has a chance to break one more scoring record before heading to the NHL. At a pace of 2.41 points per game, Bedard is within striking distance of Brian Shantz’s CHL scoring record of 139 points in 1995-96.

Oh right, the legend of Brian Shantz!
That’s going to be a tough record to break considering Bedard is not playing in the Central Hockey League, which is the league Brian Shantz played in to set that record.
 
Connor Bedard NHL Draft Lottery Regina Pats | TSN

New article on Bedard, but this caught my eye in the last paragraph:

With 28 games remaining in the Pats season, Bedard has a chance to break one more scoring record before heading to the NHL. At a pace of 2.41 points per game, Bedard is within striking distance of Brian Shantz’s CHL scoring record of 139 points in 1995-96.

Oh right, the legend of Brian Shantz!

This has to be a joke right? Like they didn't actually write that in an article?

That's the Central Hockey League record and Shantz was like 26 when he set that record. How much of an noob do you have to be to just look up the CHL scoring record and not know that there's 3 separate CHL leagues that keep 3 separate record books? And how much more of a noob do you have to be to think that the record would be 139 points when guys like Gretz and Lemieux among many others have come through those leagues?

Whoever wrote that article is in the wrong sport.
 
Pretty decent test for him coming up with tomorrow evening's scheduled main event in the junior hockey world. Damn, I wish I had booked some business travel out west. It would be a shame to miss out on seeing him live. I did get to see Sid and the other Connor play. It would be a shame to break with tradition.
 
Like I said, there isn't a number, because no amount of production fundamentally changes the type of prospect he is.

Let's recap:

It is statistically disingenuous to argue he is not producing at a level that is only comparable to the two clear best draft prospects in the last 30 seasons. He is dominating, not just being the leading producer, as a 17 year old in a CHL league.

In response, you throw Crosby's pace, and a cherrypicked one to boot, but not McDavid's, as an argument that he is not producing at a "generational pace".

You argue that he is producing at a Matthews/Eichel/Hughes pre-draft level; three players that, at best, appear to be fighting for a "Top 3- 5 forward in the league" position, despite no precedence in the WHL for what he is doing to measure against. I argue that we can reasonably point to the similar production at age 16 by Matthews/Eichel/Hughes in the U18 program as an indicator of a "franchise/#1 C" level player; not a once a decade level player like Crosby/McDavid.

In response, you throw out subjective opinion that Eichel's and Matthews' 17 year old seasons, both of which were on the older side of age 17, were of the same caliber as Bedard's.

You point to Kane as an example of a player who produced like Bedard did but did not reach Crosby/McDavid level. Yes, Kane lead the O in scoring pre-draft, but a clear level below Bedard's level of domination, The eye test sees Bedard closer to Crosby than Kane in terms of physical play.

The point here is you tease us with hints that you would put Bedard on Crosby/McDavid level if only a statistical argument would back it up but then you fall back to "it doesn't matter how many points he scores, his size will hold him back".

You are reasonably being called out for your inconsistency.

You say "no amount of production fundamentally changes the type of prospect he is."

I say: no amount of production fundamentally changes the type of prospect you are hoping that he will be labeled as.
 
You are reasonably being called out for your inconsistency.

I'm being inconsistent?

Where were your calls for him to be labeled generational before the WJC?

Oh yeah, I remember. I said people who were comparing him to McDavid were overrating him because of his hot streak at the WJC and you said "only 1 guy is doing that". Now all of the sudden you are the leader of the movement.

Here it is if you can't remember back 2 weeks ago:
I'm a big fan of this kid, but he's starting to get waaaay overrated based on piling up meaningless points against Germany and Austria.

Tons of talent but people acting like he'll be a disappointment if he has a Patrick Kane type of career are off their rocker.
....
People out here talking about how he'll be better than McDavid.... The hype is out of control.
Maybe one poster has said this. The hype about the overhype is out of control.

Now moving on..

It is statistically disingenuous to argue he is not producing at a level that is only comparable to the two clear best draft prospects in the last 30 seasons. He is dominating, not just being the leading producer, as a 17 year old in a CHL league.

Are you talking about Tavares and Kane? Because their CHL careers are absolutely comparable to Bedard's.

You argue that he is producing at a Matthews/Eichel/Hughes pre-draft level; three players that, at best, appear to be fighting for a "Top 3- 5 forward in the league" position, despite no precedence in the WHL for what he is doing to measure against. I argue that we can reasonably point to the similar production at age 16 by Matthews/Eichel/Hughes in the U18 program as an indicator of a "franchise/#1 C" level player; not a once a decade level player like Crosby/McDavid.

And we can point to Kane's production in the OHL as an indicator that Bedard is just a franchise player, not a generational one

In response, you throw out subjective opinion that Eichel's and Matthews' 17 year old seasons, both of which were on the older side of age 17, were of the same caliber as Bedard's.

You point to Kane as an example of a player who produced like Bedard did but did not reach Crosby/McDavid level. Yes, Kane lead the O in scoring pre-draft, but a clear level below Bedard's level of domination, The eye test sees Bedard closer to Crosby than Kane in terms of physical play.

And the eye test tells me he is closer to a Kane/Matthews caliber prospect in terms of offensive play.

The point here is you tease us with hints that you would put Bedard on Crosby/McDavid level if only a statistical argument would back it up but then you fall back to "it doesn't matter how many points he scores, his size will hold him back".

I have been discussing concerns about his ability to create time and space for himself a long time. You are just new to following this player. His stats still don't suggest he's as good as McDavid or Crosby. He would need to exceed their production levels by a nontrivial amount just to justify a discussion, and even then, unless he fundamentally changes as a player, he's not on that level.

You say "no amount of production fundamentally changes the type of prospect he is."

I say: no amount of production fundamentally changes the type of prospect you are hoping that he will be labeled as.
It's amazing how desperate some of you fanboys are for everybody to label this guy generational because he had a hot 3 game streak in the round robin.
 
I'm being inconsistent?

Where were your calls for him to be labeled generational before the WJC?

I have always maintained that he was closer to Crosby/McDavid production/level than any other CHL prospect in the last 30 years.

I pointed exactly where you are inconsistent. You bring up stats to argue against him, good arguments based on stats are countered, then you go, "stats don't matter".
 
Connor Bedard NHL Draft Lottery Regina Pats | TSN

New article on Bedard, but this caught my eye in the last paragraph:

With 28 games remaining in the Pats season, Bedard has a chance to break one more scoring record before heading to the NHL. At a pace of 2.41 points per game, Bedard is within striking distance of Brian Shantz’s CHL scoring record of 139 points in 1995-96.

Oh right, the legend of Brian Shantz!
That's just too embarrassing for words.

Maybe I could understand it for a foreigner who's not very familiar with CHL, but this is TSN so I assume the writer is Canadian.

Even if you just look up CHL scoring record, surely you need to see that number and have a double take. Crosby for example scored 168 quite recently, and of course Lemieux had 280 or something points. How's it even possible to think that only 139 points could be the all-time scoring record?

And yeah, especially since Shantz was 25 years old when he got the record.
 
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Connor Bedard NHL Draft Lottery Regina Pats | TSN

New article on Bedard, but this caught my eye in the last paragraph:

With 28 games remaining in the Pats season, Bedard has a chance to break one more scoring record before heading to the NHL. At a pace of 2.41 points per game, Bedard is within striking distance of Brian Shantz’s CHL scoring record of 139 points in 1995-96.

Oh right, the legend of Brian Shantz!
Artificial intellegence strikes again
 
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I have always maintained that he was closer to Crosby/McDavid production/level than any other CHL prospect in the last 30 years.

I pointed exactly where you are inconsistent. You bring up stats to argue against him, good arguments based on stats are countered, then you go, "stats don't matter".
Stats are a disqualifier, not a qualifier.

Just because a player produces at an elite level, doesn't mean he's an elite prospect. Jordan Dumais is a great example.

But if a player doesn't produce at a generational level, he's very unlikely to be a generational player.

Surely you understand this.
 
Do they play fewer games in the WHL now, or has Bedard just missed a bunch? Because looking back at the leading 17 year old scorers, guys were playing high 60's and low 70's versus Bedard's projected 57. Pace him up to Sakic's 72 and he outscores him by 40. That's nuts.
 
I have always maintained that he was closer to Crosby/McDavid production/level than any other CHL prospect in the last 30 years.

I pointed exactly where you are inconsistent. You bring up stats to argue against him, good arguments based on stats are countered, then you go, "stats don't matter".
Yeah you are so consistent.

Not sure the gut reaction to him as a prospect is quite on the level of McDavid/Crosby though.
Hmmm
Great players produce regardless. You look at all the all-time great players and they get their points whether or not their teammates or linemates get theirs.

McDavid especially proved that his CHL numbers were not "inflated" due to being on a good team. Crosby has proven he can produce in any kind of situation and with any kind of team.

I am sure Bedard will have plenty of chances to show that he can put up better numbers on a better team but I doubt it.
Hmmm
 
I'm being inconsistent?

Where were your calls for him to be labeled generational before the WJC?

Oh yeah, I remember. I said people who were comparing him to McDavid were overrating him because of his hot streak at the WJC and you said "only 1 guy is doing that". Now all of the sudden you are the leader of the movement.

Here it is if you can't remember back 2 weeks ago:



Now moving on..



Are you talking about Tavares and Kane? Because their CHL careers are absolutely comparable to Bedard's.



And we can point to Kane's production in the OHL as an indicator that Bedard is just a franchise player, not a generational one



And the eye test tells me he is closer to a Kane/Matthews caliber prospect in terms of offensive play.



I have been discussing concerns about his ability to create time and space for himself a long time. You are just new to following this player. His stats still don't suggest he's as good as McDavid or Crosby. He would need to exceed their production levels by a nontrivial amount just to justify a discussion, and even then, unless he fundamentally changes as a player, he's not on that level.


It's amazing how desperate some of you fanboys are for everybody to label this guy generational because he had a hot 3 game streak in the round robin.
Since you repeatedly bring up Kane’s numbers, let me post some other numbers then you can tell me what you think. Here’s Kane/Bedard and their 5 most productive teammates:

06/07 London Knights (50-14-4):

Patrick Kane: 2.50 PPG
Sam Gagner: 2.26 PPG
Sergei Kostitsyn: 2.22 PPG
AJ Perry: 1.28 PPG
Robbie Drummond: 1.18 PPG
David Meckler: 1.10 PPG


22/23 Regina Pats (19-19-1):

Connor Bedard: 2.41 PPG
Stanislav Svozil: 1.32 PPG
Alexander Suzdalev: 1.29 PPG
Tanner Howe: 1.28 PPG
Borya Valis: 0.89 PPG
Easton Armstrong: 0.56 PPG

You still won’t get it and I’m wasting my breath but here’s some context anyway. It’s hypocritical how you’ll accuse others of arbitrarily using statistics then continue to throw out Kane’s name as if he has anything to do with Bedard. There’s a difference between being on the best team in the CHL and leading the next best point producer in your team by .24 PPG and being on one of the worst teams in the CHL and leading your team’s next best point producer by over a point per game (1.11 PPG).

This also says nothing about the fact that Kane was 8 months older than Bedard during his draft year. Kane was 18 for nearly all of the season while Bedard will be 17 for all of his draft year. Maybe Bedard will be worse than Kane as a pro, we don’t know. But we do know what as a prospect Bedard is clearly superior.
 
Do they play fewer games in the WHL now, or has Bedard just missed a bunch? Because looking back at the leading 17 year old scorers, guys were playing high 60's and low 70's versus Bedard's projected 57. Pace him up to Sakic's 72 and he outscores him by 40. That's nuts.

It's a 68 game season. He missed about 10 games +- due to World Juniors. Joe Sakic at 17 years old didn't play on Canada's U20 team. Not many do. Therefore that would account for the difference in games played for 17 year old players.
 
Since you repeatedly bring up Kane’s numbers, let me post some other numbers then you can tell me what you think. Here’s Kane/Bedard and their 5 most productive teammates:

06/07 London Knights (50-14-4):

Patrick Kane: 2.50 PPG
Sam Gagner: 2.26 PPG
Sergei Kostitsyn: 2.22 PPG
AJ Perry: 1.28 PPG
Robbie Drummond: 1.18 PPG
David Meckler: 1.10 PPG


22/23 Regina Pats (19-19-1):

Connor Bedard: 2.41 PPG
Stanislav Svozil: 1.32 PPG
Alexander Suzdalev: 1.29 PPG
Tanner Howe: 1.28 PPG
Borya Valis: 0.89 PPG
Easton Armstrong: 0.56 PPG

You still won’t get it and I’m wasting my breath but here’s some context anyway. It’s hypocritical how you’ll accuse others of arbitrarily using statistics then continue to throw out Kane’s name as if he has anything to do with Bedard. There’s a difference between being on the best team in the CHL and leading the next best point producer in your team by .24 PPG and being on one of the worst teams in the CHL and leading your team’s next best point producer by over a point per game (1.11 PPG).

This also says nothing about the fact that Kane was 8 months older than Bedard during his draft year. Kane was 18 for nearly all of the season while Bedard will be 17 for all of his draft year. Maybe Bedard will be worse than Kane as a pro, we don’t know. But we do know what as a prospect Bedard is clearly superior.
I'll let daver reply on my behalf.
Great players produce regardless. You look at all the all-time great players and they get their points whether or not their teammates or linemates get theirs.

McDavid especially proved that his CHL numbers were not "inflated" due to being on a good team. Crosby has proven he can produce in any kind of situation and with any kind of team.

I am sure Bedard will have plenty of chances to show that he can put up better numbers on a better team but I doubt it.
 
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