C Bo Horvat (2013, 9th overall, Vancouver)

[SarcazemKadri]

Upside: Mike Richards, pretty good chance to get there as well IMO.

 

[TylerSVT*]

Upside: Mike Richards, pretty good chance to get there as well IMO.

For real?

Good chance to get there? Mike Richards is bloody good and you would be lucky for Horvat to turn into him.

That is like me saying Monahan has a pretty good chance to be as good as Toews.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Horvat's a good player and is stronger and better defensively than some of the prospects who will make the NHL next season - however, he needs to work more on his offense and will get more opportunities in London (where he will probably be their 1c, be on the PP, PK, and log a bunch of minutes). He also has an excellent chance at playing at WJC.

I agree with whoever it was upthread who said his game last year didn't look NHL ready.

This isn't a player who has outgrown the OHL by any stretch...I just don't see what the benefit to him development-wise would be for playing in Vancouver next year.

 

[Thesensation19*]

For some reason from the moment he was drafted and I saw his highlights, he reminded me of Jean Beliveau. All out of gut feeling though

 

[arsmaster*]

Horvat's a good player and is stronger and better defensively than some of the prospects who will make the NHL next season - however, he needs to work more on his offense and will get more opportunities in London (where he will probably be their 1c, be on the PP, PK, and log a bunch of minutes). He also has an excellent chance at playing at WJC.

I agree with whoever it was upthread who said his game last year didn't look NHL ready.

This isn't a player who has outgrown the OHL by any stretch...I just don't see what the benefit to him development-wise would be for playing in Vancouver next year.

There wouldn't be much benefit.

I have no doubts the kid could handle sheltered NHL minutes next year, but IMO that would be a waste.

 

[JL17]

Horvat's a good player and is stronger and better defensively than some of the prospects who will make the NHL next season - however, he needs to work more on his offense and will get more opportunities in London (where he will probably be their 1c, be on the PP, PK, and log a bunch of minutes). He also has an excellent chance at playing at WJC.

I find this quote funny... With Domi in London he won't be the #1 center may play on the first line with him. Was playing 1:30 or more per powerplay and was the #1 PK guy on the team last year. He logged a ton of minutes in the second half of the season and playoffs.

What more does he need. He was the reason London made it anywhere in the playoffs. You can count on one hand in the 2013 draft the players that get it. Horvat is top 2 in that category.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I find this quote funny... With Domi in London he won't be the #1 center may play on the first line with him. Was playing 1:30 or more per powerplay and was the #1 PK guy on the team last year. He logged a ton of minutes in the second half of the season and playoffs.

What more does he need. He was the reason London made it anywhere in the playoffs. You can count on one hand in the 2013 draft the players that get it. Horvat is top 2 in that category.

He will probably be on the first line - and may play centre if they put Domi at wing. Horvat is a great player but he had an uneven year and need to work on his offense.

In Vancouver he will be a bottom 6 player who probably plays limited minutes and won't necessarily make it on any special teams.

He may have been dominant in the playoffs - but looking at his year as whole I did not think he looked NHL ready. I find it really weird that after watching him you decided "this is a guy who would be far better off playing in the NHL next year rather than having another year in junior".

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

I get they have cap problems, IMO it would be stupid to rush Horvat to the NHL. See how he does with another year of junior it will just help his game get better.

I can pretty much guarantee he wouldn't be at all dominant with the Canucks and how many minutes is he really going to get? He will have better opportunities next year in London than Vancouver.

 

[Evolu7ion]

Im a big time Canucks fan, and IMO it would be a huge mistake to bring up Horvat full time next year.

This is a guy who evolved into an elite prospect late in the regular season last year and throughout the playoffs. He played the majority of the season in a defense first role, and eas really only given offensive opportunity late. He developed big offensive upside to match his other strengths, which is why he jumped so high up the rankings. He projects as a solid #2 C, with the potential to be a #1 if his offense continues improving as it did last year.

So unless Vancouver is willing to play him in an offensive role in the top 6 (no way that happens with Hank and Kes 1 and 2) he should return to London to play a leading role and continue evolving his offensive game.

 

[BrodieGoat]

not high on Horvat I think his upside is Jared Stoll

 

[nowhereman]

For real?

Good chance to get there? Mike Richards is bloody good and you would be lucky for Horvat to turn into him.

That is like me saying Monahan has a pretty good chance to be as good as Toews.

M. Richards is a 50-60+ point 2C with very good defensive instincts. He's no longer a PPG Selke nominee.

I think M. Richards upside is very possible and I would imagine Vancouver would be disappointed if Horvat didn't at least become a 50+ point 2C center. If they didn't think he had that kind of upside, you'd at least think they'd have drafted Nichushkin.

 

[King In The North]

M. Richards is a 60+ point 2C with very good defensive instincts. He's no longer a PPG Selke nominee.

I think M. Richards upside is very possible and I would imagine Vancouver would be disappointed in Horvat didn't at least become a 50+ point 2C center. If they didn't think he had that kind of upside, you'd at least think they'd have drafted Nichushkin.

Mike Richards is a 60 point 2C only because he plays behind Kopitar.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I think he's going to be one of those "mistakenly taken a little too high" players and has a ceiling somewhere around 40 points as a two-way centre (which still isn't terrible for a pick on the edge of the top 10).

He's relatively young for a 2013 draftee, but it's pretty rare for guys who don't put up huge points in Junior to end up as high-scoring guys (and 50-60 points is pretty high scoring) in the NHL. I'm also a little leery of the fact that his ratios totally changed from year 1 to year 2 in Junior (2:1 ratio assists-goals to 1:1 ratio assists to goals) in addition to the overall improvement in scoring. No shot info to confirm, but that might indicate that he was shooting lights out last year and his production wasn't strictly based on personal improvement/more ice time.

 

[CanaFan]

not high on Horvat I think his upside is Jared Stoll

More likely his downside is Stoll, upside closer to Bergeron. Of course he is no guarantee to reach his full upside, but there isn't a single scout or scouting report that has identified his upside as low as Stoll. Of course you're free to have whatever opinion you want, no matter how contrary to the general consensus it may be ...

 

[Juxtaposer]

Some of these projections are absolutely laughable. Kids with Horvat's offensive production in their draft year on a team that good don't become high-end #2C's. (http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18/4431126/bo-horvat-draft-comparables).

Yes, I get that everyone loves his defensive game and intangibles and grit and whatever, but here's a newsflash for you: Chris Tierney played the toughs in London. And Horvat struggled to score away from Domi. Ryan O'Reilly is Horvat's high-end upside. I think he's more likely to be a Brandon Sutter caliber of player than a Mike Richards.

More likely his downside is Stoll, upside closer to Bergeron. Of course he is no guarantee to reach his full upside, but there isn't a single scout or scouting report that has identified his upside as low as Stoll. Of course you're free to have whatever opinion you want, no matter how contrary to the general consensus it may be ...

And as I type, here it comes. You do realize that Jarret Stoll has been a pretty consistent 50 point player over his career, right? Saying Horvat's downside is Stoll is hilarious. And then I see you think that his upside is Patrice Bergeron, a top-10 forward in the league, and I just don't know what to say except poor kid. Canucks fans will overhype him to the max and then when he becomes a respectable player and not Patrice Bergeron, they'll backtrack. Like Kassian.

 

[VeteranNetPresence]

hopefully not, the best thing is to send him back to the OHL and that is quite obvious imo

 

[LiquidSnake]

not high on Horvat I think his upside is Jared Stoll

Which is probably still higher than Monahan

 

[LiquidSnake]

Some of these projections are absolutely laughable. Kids with Horvat's offensive production in their draft year on a team that good don't become high-end #2C's. (http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18/4431126/bo-horvat-draft-comparables).

Yes, I get that everyone loves his defensive game and intangibles and grit and whatever, but here's a newsflash for you: Chris Tierney played the toughs in London. And Horvat struggled to score away from Domi. Ryan O'Reilly is Horvat's high-end upside. I think he's more likely to be a Brandon Sutter caliber of player than a Mike Richards.




And as I type, here it comes. You do realize that Jarret Stoll has been a pretty consistent 50 point player over his career, right? Saying Horvat's downside is Stoll is hilarious. And then I see you think that his upside is Patrice Bergeron, a top-10 forward in the league, and I just don't know what to say except poor kid. Canucks fans will overhype him to the max and then when he becomes a respectable player and not Patrice Bergeron, they'll backtrack. Like Kassian.

Wow. Thanks for letting us know that Kassian has finished developing.

Fans of other teams are either out to lunch or just looking to take a shot. It's sad and not in the least surprising.

 

[arsmaster*]

Some of these projections are absolutely laughable. Kids with Horvat's offensive production in their draft year on a team that good don't become high-end #2C's. (http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18/4431126/bo-horvat-draft-comparables).

Yes, I get that everyone loves his defensive game and intangibles and grit and whatever, but here's a newsflash for you: Chris Tierney played the toughs in London. And Horvat struggled to score away from Domi. Ryan O'Reilly is Horvat's high-end upside. I think he's more likely to be a Brandon Sutter caliber of player than a Mike Richards.

How opinions change when guys go to teams you don't like.

All of a sudden you don't like the same prospects anymore.

Ryan O'Reilly is 23 btw if you think he's done developing you're in for a surprise.

Mike Richards "rep" is based on 5 years ago.

I'd take ROR over him easily.

How are these projections off? TSN used Bergeron.

PS. I felt vindicated when your Sharks took a dmen after you smack talked every mock that had them taking a dman. It's funny I though of you while watching the draft. Guess I spend too much time on HF.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah, I'm the one whose going around dissing players drafted by teams I dislike. Not you, who said not ten minutes ago that Monahan will be worse than Stoll.

And TSN always uses ridiculous projections. They compare guys taken in the second round to first line NHLers all the time. Bergeron is a decent stylistic comparison, but Horvat's upside isn't in the same stratosphere.

All of a sudden I don't like Horvat anymore? I have held the same line on Horvat since April: He's very much like Ryan O'Reilly and will be a solid two-way 50 point 2C. You can look in old Horvat threads if you like, I posted the same opinion in May, before there was even a chance he was a Canuck.

Why don't you guys try attacking my opinion instead of attacking me as a person, which seems to be all that you can do.

 

[TheHudlinator]

How opinions change when guys go to teams you don't like.

All of a sudden you don't like the same prospects anymore.

Ryan O'Reilly is 23 btw if you think he's done developing you're in for a surprise.

Mike Richards "rep" is based on 5 years ago.

I'd take ROR over him easily.

How are these projections off? TSN used Bergeron.

PS. I felt vindicated when your Sharks took a dmen after you smack talked every mock that had them taking a dman. It's funny I though of you while watching the draft. Guess I spend too much time on HF.

I really like Horvat and think he will be a great 50 point #2 center but using the TSN comparables isn't a great idea as they said Scott Glennie was comparable to Jeff Carter, Philippe Paradis was comparable to Max Pacioretty. Simply put Tsn almost always compares a player to a star in order to build excitement around the prospect. I don't think Stoll is a bad comparable as he is a great shut down center that can put up 40+ points a year.

 

[Lord Flacko*]

Saying Horvat's downside is Stoll is hilarious.

Saying Horvat's upside is Stoll is one of the most ridiculous things I've read today.

 

[jughead42*]

I could definitely see Horvat making the NHL next year with Vancouver. Everyone is saying he needs to go back to junior to work on his offense but the guy scored 16 goals in 23 playoff games. The goals he scores are pro goals as well, scored because he's a bull that goes to the net hard. He can handle the physical element of the game as well as the defensive side of the game, these are usually the things that keep teenagers out of the NHL. Since he'd only be expected to play a checking role in the NHL at this point there's no downside to keeping him if he plays himself into a job at camp. With Vancouver's cap situation I'm sure they wouldn't mind a dependable entry level contact to fill that 3rd line center job. It should depend on how he does at camp however, he's got to show he can do it first obviously but he probably can simply because he won't be expected to do anything he can't already do.

 

[just22]

Some of these projections are absolutely laughable. Kids with Horvat's offensive production in their draft year on a team that good don't become high-end #2C's. (http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18/4431126/bo-horvat-draft-comparables).

Yes, I get that everyone loves his defensive game and intangibles and grit and whatever, but here's a newsflash for you: Chris Tierney played the toughs in London. And Horvat struggled to score away from Domi. Ryan O'Reilly is Horvat's high-end upside. I think he's more likely to be a Brandon Sutter caliber of player than a Mike Richards.

I believe he put up something like 1.10 PPG the last 40 or so games + playoffs? He has more offensive skills than people think. It's going to be interesting following him next year, likely playing on the first line with Domi, playing in the WJC and Memorial Cup...

 

[arsmaster*]

Yeah, I'm the one whose going around dissing players drafted by teams I dislike. Not you, who said not ten minutes ago that Monahan will be worse than Stoll.

And TSN always uses ridiculous projections. They compare guys taken in the second round to first line NHLers all the time. Bergeron is a decent stylistic comparison, but Horvat's upside isn't in the same stratosphere.

All of a sudden I don't like Horvat anymore? I have held the same line on Horvat since April: He's very much like Ryan O'Reilly and will be a solid two-way 50 point 2C. You can look in old Horvat threads if you like, I posted the same opinion in May, before there was even a chance he was a Canuck.

Why don't you guys try attacking my opinion instead of attacking me as a person, which seems to be all that you can do.

You tend to post with a holier than thou attitude.

Didn't seem like anybody attacked you.

I brought up the mocks because I'm reminded of it every time I see your user name.

I just didn't like your approach.

I also don't feel you can say so and so's production on a good team is a good indicator of future production or talent.

All depends on projection.

Bergeron's 23 goals and barely PPG draft year speaks to this.

I also don't think you'll find many who think Tierney (of course he's a Sharks pick) has tougher minutes than Horvat. For the most part they were on the same line in a shutdown role with Anderson. Almost your entire post was looking for confrontation (the way I read it).

Most followers credit Horvat with shutting down Trochek and the like an route to the OHL title, not Tierney.