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C Auston Matthews - USNTDP, USHL (2016 Draft)

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sabresEH said:
Lmao 99% of CHL rinks have state of the art gyms? Really? Yeah I'm sure the arena in Medicine Hat has a better gym facility than NCAA div 1 programs. Kelowna is one of the biggest programs in the CHL and the last thing I would call their training facilities is state of the art.

Also while the length of schedule can be an advantage for the CHL the NCAA schedule allows for more gym time. What's the point of having great training facilities if the players are too tired to use them regularly. CHLers usually don't have as big of a problem with the NHL's long schedule as the college kids do but the college kids are usually more prepared to battle with the NHLers.
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It's just flag waving, may as well ignore it.

CHL is a fantastic league and would be my first choice as a prospect. But a guy like Toews didn't turn out any worse because of his purportedly easier schedule.
 
both systems (NCAA/CHL) have their benefits. CHL allows you to play amongst the best players in junior at and around your age level so NHL scouts can better predict your ceiling as a pro and what your weaknesses are. In the NCAA that allows you to mature and become a better player over time, you play less games so less wear and tear on your body and you have a ton of time to develop your overall game.
 
Matthews is going to be top 1 or 2 in 2016. Not sure what the point of him going to college for 1 year would be. He's better off adapting to he pro- style game ans schedule in the WHL than playing 40 games in college. He will be playing in the NHL in 2016. College for him is almost pointless.

When will the NCAA get rid of 20 and 21 year old freshmen? Aren't there enough good 18 year olds to play in the NCAA?
 
Faltorvo said:
no ,i don't believe he is at all.

i believe one advantage the CHL has over the ncaa is the length of the season and the harsher travel.

chl is a much closer reflection of life in the nhl in many ways

i can't see how that does not aid in the transition phase and the overall mental conditioning and the seasonal life planning to deal with the grind that the nhl is.


no offence to our friends to the south , they have made great strides over the years and will continue to do so

but the hockey factory has been up and running and honing for a long time here , it's one of the reasons why we churn out so many players.
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oh please, when will these ignorant comments stop??

look, as it stands right now, two of the top 3 picks in a top loaded draft are coming from the NCAA. Another top 10 pick in Werenski is..you guessed it, from the NCAA. Another pick in Kyle Connor who is going to Michigan will be a top 15 pick. That is 4 top 15 picks from the NCAA or going there...now add Bracco, White, Greenway, Boeser, Novak, Fischer, etc all possible top 30 picks heading to college as well..

now look at your teams from Canada. I bet Phil Kessel would be an even better player for Toronto if he went to the CHL eh?

same goes for that JVR kid...how dare he go to New Hampshire and not reach his potential if he went to the CHL...maybe that is why he only went #2 overall and Kane went #1 overall...the CHL factor?

How about Max Pacioretty? He really screwed himself by going to Michigan..

and that Johnny Gaudreau idiot, man if he only went to the CHL he would be tearing it up at the NHL level...

good God this is becoming boring and childish talk.

and for those that haven't been on here long enough, I am a supporter of the CHL and enjoy seeing US kids like DeAngelo, Garland, Bittner, Milano, Dvorak, etc doing great there. there are pros and cons to both leagues and neither is head and shoulders above the other.

the NCAA is perfect for bigger defensemen, smaller forwards and players that need more gym and practice time to hone their game. but it is also fine for the superstars as well -just see above.

players born in certain regions plays a big part in it like OrangeandBlack said...the majority of kids from Minny and Mass couldn't give two craps about the CHL as they watched their heroes and family members head to the NCAA and do just fine at the pro level.

as for Matthews, the ball is in his court. if he picks the WHL it isn't because he will be a better player in the end, it is because he has no NCAA roots or ties being from Arizona. he likely goes to the WHL, and great for him...I will be pumped to see how he does there...but if he surprises everyone and picks Michigan or Denver..he will not be any different of a player and just as dynamic as he is now...just look at Mr. Eichel for proof.
 
here is something I quickly put together.

here is a list of all USA only players drafted from 2006-2010 first round only. not including kids that were born in the US but did not represent the US...and not including any player from Canada who went on to play college hockey.

I keep hearing about top talents going to the CHL to be better players so I am only focusing on the top 30 for each draft as going further just will be too long.

now there will be more American kids that went to the NCAA instead of the CHL, not going to ague that, but let us see how they turned out or are still turning out right now...figured 2010 is the cutoff as many kids from the 2011 draft are just starting to turn pro and a bit unfair to judge yet.


2006

NCAA

Erik Johnson - legit top pairing dman
Phil Kessel - star forward
Kyle Okposo - top 6 forward on any team
Mark Mitera - bust
David Fischer - anything worse than bust?
Chris Summers - starting to make it in the NHL

CHL

Peter Mueller - bust
Trevor Lewis - bottom 6 NHLer
Nick Foligno - star forward
Bobby Sanguinetti - bust


2007

NCAA

JVR - star forward
Ryan McDonagh - top pairing dman
Kevin Shattenkirk - top pairing dman
Ian Cole - solid top 5-6 dman
Max Pacioretty - star forward
Patrick White - horrible bust
Nick Petrecki - bust

CHL

Patrick Kane - star forward
Jon Blum - bust

Both

Jim O'Brien - went both NCAA/WHL - neither helped - bust

2008

NCAA

Colin Wilson - top 6 forward
Jake Gardiner - top 4 dman

CHL

Zach Bogosian - top 4 dman
John Carlson - top pairing dman
Tomas McCullom - bust

2009

NCAA

Nick Leddy - top 4 dman
Chris Kreider - top 6 winger
Jordan Schroeder - fringe NHLer/bust
Kyle Palmieri - top 6 winger

CHL

John Moore - top 5-6 dman

2010

NCAA

Derek Forbort - fringe NHLer/bust
Nick Bjugstad - star forward
Beau Bennet - top 6 forward
Kevin Hayes - top 6/9 forward
Charlie Coyle - top 6/9 forward
Brock Nelson - top 6 forward

CHL

Jack Campbell - bust??
Cam Fowler - top pairing dman
Austin Watson - not a bust but not in NHL yet
Jarred Tinordi - fringe NHLer - possible top 4 dman
Emerson Etem - top 9 forward??

so here it is. US kids only. more US kids went to the NCAA, but make your own judgement as to which league has developed better players...

and by the way that epic 2003 NHL draft :

NCAA - Suter, Parise, Kesler, Jessiman, Eaves, Boyle, Stuart,
CHL - Brown

not a bad draft for the NCAA...
 
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BlazingBlueAnt said:
Why does every thread with an American prospect have to turn into a CHL vs NCAA argument? -_-
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Because in every thread an insecure, flag waving Canadian comes in and begins to tout the superiority of the CHL over the NCAA, and proud Americans take exception. Most Canadian fans on this message boards are great, but there is a vocal minority of elitists that cause these sorts of debates.

AmericanDream said:
here is something I quickly put together.

here is a list of all USA only players drafted from 2006-2010 first round only. not including kids that were born in the US but did not represent the US...and not including any player from Canada who went on to play college hockey.

I keep hearing about top talents going to the CHL to be better players so I am only focusing on the top 30 for each draft as going further just will be too long.

now there will be more American kids that went to the NCAA instead of the CHL, not going to ague that, but let us see how they turned out or are still turning out right now...figured 2010 is the cutoff as many kids from the 2011 draft are just starting to turn pro and a bit unfair to judge yet.


2006

NCAA

Erik Johnson - legit top pairing dman
Phil Kessel - star forward
Kyle Okposo - top 6 forward on any team
Mark Mitera - bust
David Fischer - anything worse than bust?
Chris Summers - starting to make it in the NHL

CHL

Peter Mueller - bust
Trevor Lewis - bottom 6 NHLer
Nick Foligno - star forward
Bobby Sanguinetti - bust


[/2007B

NCAA

JVR - star forward
Ryan McDonagh - top pairing dman
Kevin Shattenkirk - top pairing dman
Ian Cole - solid top 5-6 dman
Max Pacioretty - star forward
Patrick White - horrible bust
Nick Petrecki - bust

CHL

Patrick Kane - star forward
Jon Blum - bust

Both

Jim O'Brien - went both NCAA/WHL - neither helped - bust

2008

NCAA

Colin Wilson - top 6 forward
Jake Gardiner - top 4 dman

CHL

Zach Bogosian - top 4 dman
John Carlson - top pairing dman
Tomas McCullom - bust

2009

NCAA

Nick Leddy - top 4 dman
Chris Kreider - top 6 winger
Jordan Schroeder - fringe NHLer/bust
Kyle Palmieri - top 6 winger

CHL

John Moore - top 5-6 dman

2010

NCAA

Derek Forbort - fringe NHLer/bust
Nick Bjugstad - star forward
Beau Bennet - top 6 forward
Kevin Hayes - top 6/9 forward
Charlie Coyle - top 6/9 forward
Brock Nelson - top 6 forward

CHL

Jack Campbell - bust??
Cam Fowler - top pairing dman
Austin Watson - not a bust but not in NHL yet
Jarred Tinordi - fringe NHLer - possible top 4 dman
Emerson Etem - top 9 forward??

so here it is. US kids only. more US kids went to the NCAA, but make your own judgement as to which league has developed better players...

and by the way that epic 2003 NHL draft :

NCAA - Suter, Parise, Kesler, Jessiman, Eaves, Boyle, Stuart,
CHL - Brown

not a bad draft for the NCAA...
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Good post, AD
 
I'll add one more thing. The people who say the CHL offers more exposure are delusional. It doesn't, maybe it's more followed, but scouts don't favor players in it over any other league. Matthews is a top-3 talent in his draft year. He doesn't even need the fictional exposure. Wherever he goes, NHL teams will watch.
 
Rekus said:
Matthews is going to be top 1 or 2 in 2016. Not sure what the point of him going to college for 1 year would be. He's better off adapting to he pro- style game ans schedule in the WHL than playing 40 games in college. He will be playing in the NHL in 2016. College for him is almost pointless.

When will the NCAA get rid of 20 and 21 year old freshmen? Aren't there enough good 18 year olds to play in the NCAA?
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Jack Eichel is going to be a top 2 pick in 2015. Not sure what the point of him going to college for 1 year would be. He's better off adapting to the pro-style game and schedule in the QMJHL than playing 40 games in college. He will be playing in the NHL in 2015. College for him is almost pointless.
 
Please, this extended NCAA vs. CHL debate has no place in the Auston Matthews thread. Speculating over where he'll end up is fine but this is ridiculous.
 
Anchor Town said:
Jack Eichel is going to be a top 2 pick in 2015. Not sure what the point of him going to college for 1 year would be. He's better off adapting to the pro-style game and schedule in the QMJHL than playing 40 games in college. He will be playing in the NHL in 2015. College for him is almost pointless.
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The Q would not be preparing him any better for the NHL than top-flight NCAA competition.
 
ToursLepantoVienna said:
If a stickied CHL vs NCAA thread existed, the topic wouldn't derail quite so many other threads.

How about it mods?
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That would not be a panacea. There are a lot of good things that come out of the Prospects board, but most of it is just unreadable.

I use it as a source for updates on draft rankings, and the lists from scoutman and others are fun to read. Beyond that...
 
I don't think it really makes much of a difference whether Matthews goes NCAA or WHL. The top talents will do fine wherever they go. Jonathan Toews and Jaden Schwartz did fine going the NCAA route. Patrick Kane and Cam Fowler did fine going the CHL route. Either way, Matthews will still be a top talent for the 2016 draft.
 
Bonin21 said:
That would not be a panacea. There are a lot of good things that come out of the Prospects board, but most of it is just unreadable.

I use it as a source for updates on draft rankings, and the lists from scoutman and others are fun to read. Beyond that...
Click to expand...

The panacea wouldn't be the thread, it would be not getting drawn into this one thinking I might actually get some information on Auston Matthews rather than a bunch of extremely partisan opinions on the relative merits of the CHL and NCAA.
 
ToursLepantoVienna said:
If a stickied CHL vs NCAA thread existed, the topic wouldn't derail quite so many other threads.

How about it mods?
Click to expand...

It would make no difference - in my experience, most people are not very interested in having an intelligent discussion over the issue - they have a fixed opinion on the issue and are more interested in banging away about why X prospect should take Y route b/c Y is inherently better or why X prospect is better because he took Y route.

As far as Matthews goes - he should do whatever will make him feel happiest and most confident in undertaking what will be an exciting, but also stressful, draft year.

nanzenkills said:
I don't think it really makes much of a difference whether Matthews goes NCAA or WHL. The top talents will do fine wherever they go. Jonathan Toews and Jaden Schwartz did fine going the NCAA route. Patrick Kane and Cam Fowler did fine going the CHL route. Either way, Matthews will still be a top talent for the 2016 draft.
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Exactly - most of the very top draft picks were flagged as such by the time they were 15 (often earlier) - people will often point to the league the player was drafted out of as though that was what made him the top pick - but really the most high end kids would have remained the same no matter where they went.

This is totally OT - but as an aside, I think these kids worry far too much about their draft ranking.
 
UsernameWasTaken said:
It would make no difference - in my experience, most people are not very interested in having an intelligent discussion over the issue - they have a fixed opinion on the issue and are more interested in banging away about why X prospect should take Y route b/c Y is inherently better or why X prospect is better because he took Y route.

As far as Matthews goes - he should do whatever will make him feel happiest and most confident in undertaking what will be an exciting, but also stressful, draft year.



Exactly - most of the very top draft picks were flagged as such by the time they were 15 (often earlier) - people will often point to the league the player was drafted out of as though that was what made him the top pick - but really the most high end kids would have remained the same no matter where they went.

This is totally OT - but as an aside, I think these kids worry far too much about their draft ranking.
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Yea, putting Kane in the NCAA and Toews in the CHL and guess what? They both end up being elite players like they are today.
 
AmericanDream said:
here is something I quickly put together.

here is a list of all USA only players drafted from 2006-2010 first round only. not including kids that were born in the US but did not represent the US...and not including any player from Canada who went on to play college hockey.

I keep hearing about top talents going to the CHL to be better players so I am only focusing on the top 30 for each draft as going further just will be too long.

now there will be more American kids that went to the NCAA instead of the CHL, not going to ague that, but let us see how they turned out or are still turning out right now...figured 2010 is the cutoff as many kids from the 2011 draft are just starting to turn pro and a bit unfair to judge yet.


2006

NCAA

Erik Johnson - legit top pairing dman
Phil Kessel - star forward
Kyle Okposo - top 6 forward on any team
Mark Mitera - bust
David Fischer - anything worse than bust?
Chris Summers - starting to make it in the NHL

CHL

Peter Mueller - bust
Trevor Lewis - bottom 6 NHLer
Nick Foligno - star forward
Bobby Sanguinetti - bust


2007

NCAA

JVR - star forward
Ryan McDonagh - top pairing dman
Kevin Shattenkirk - top pairing dman
Ian Cole - solid top 5-6 dman
Max Pacioretty - star forward
Patrick White - horrible bust
Nick Petrecki - bust

CHL

Patrick Kane - star forward
Jon Blum - bust

Both

Jim O'Brien - went both NCAA/WHL - neither helped - bust

2008

NCAA

Colin Wilson - top 6 forward
Jake Gardiner - top 4 dman

CHL

Zach Bogosian - top 4 dman
John Carlson - top pairing dman
Tomas McCullom - bust

2009

NCAA

Nick Leddy - top 4 dman
Chris Kreider - top 6 winger
Jordan Schroeder - fringe NHLer/bust
Kyle Palmieri - top 6 winger

CHL

John Moore - top 5-6 dman

2010

NCAA

Derek Forbort - fringe NHLer/bust
Nick Bjugstad - star forward
Beau Bennet - top 6 forward
Kevin Hayes - top 6/9 forward
Charlie Coyle - top 6/9 forward
Brock Nelson - top 6 forward

CHL

Jack Campbell - bust??
Cam Fowler - top pairing dman
Austin Watson - not a bust but not in NHL yet
Jarred Tinordi - fringe NHLer - possible top 4 dman
Emerson Etem - top 9 forward??

so here it is. US kids only. more US kids went to the NCAA, but make your own judgement as to which league has developed better players...

and by the way that epic 2003 NHL draft :

NCAA - Suter, Parise, Kesler, Jessiman, Eaves, Boyle, Stuart,
CHL - Brown

not a bad draft for the NCAA...
Click to expand...

If you add the Canadian prospects then your comparison turns into the favor of the CHL. Therefore, it's a poor comparison because you're only comparing American kids who favor the NCAA more than the CHL.
 
Beaunett said:
If you add the Canadian prospects then your comparison turns into the favor of the CHL. Therefore, it's a poor comparison because you're only comparing American kids who favor the NCAA more than the CHL.
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I don't think you understand the point his post is illustrating. It's not about quantity of successful NHLers who came out of the NCAA. It's about the likelihood of success of 1st rounders who came out if the NCAA vs CHL. Using Americans was just an example, but consider Canadian first rounders who came through the NCAA. There aren't a ton that come to my mind off the bat. But guys like Kariya, Toews, Zajac, and Turris are examples who turned out pretty good. Can't think of too many recent Canadian first rounders who went the NCAA route and didn't have a NHL career.
 
I'd like to see Matthews in the WHL. Playing against other top 2016 draft eligible WHL guys like Steel, Benson, Clague, Dube, Kryski, Howden, and maybe Jost and Fabbro. The WHL is really deep in 2016 so it'll be interesting to see if Matthews will separate himself from those guys since it seems he should.
 
Beaunett said:
If you add the Canadian prospects then your comparison turns into the favor of the CHL. Therefore, it's a poor comparison because you're only comparing American kids who favor the NCAA more than the CHL.
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I think you need to skip a few pages back to understand why I did this and what the debate really is about....it was about US kids going to the CHL because it is superior and they will develop better...according to what I posted, doesn't seem to be the case does it?
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
I don't think you understand the point his post is illustrating. It's not about quantity of successful NHLers who came out of the NCAA. It's about the likelihood of success of 1st rounders who came out if the NCAA vs CHL. Using Americans was just an example, but consider Canadian first rounders who came through the NCAA. There aren't a ton that come to my mind off the bat. But guys like Kariya, Toews, Zajac, and Turris are examples who turned out pretty good. Can't think of too many recent Canadian first rounders who went the NCAA route and didn't have a NHL career.
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thank you...thought it was an easy comparison to understand...
 
At this age was Toews a better prospect than Matthews is? I would argue he is a better prospect than Toews was by a hair. Just wanted some other peoples opinions.
 
It is kind of a shame that Scherbak is a 95 born, he should be eligible for AHL next year, Matthews and Scherbak would be a great combination to see in the WHL, but at least Bajkov will still be in Everett, and Matthews/Bajkov may produce in their draft eligible years similar to MacKinnon/Drouin.
 
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