C Adam Fantilli - (2023, 3rd, CBJ) Part 2

[Dirtyf1ghter]

The IIHF caused the situation long ago. There is no reason for the NHL to cater to international hockey unless either the fans or players demand it, and there isn't really that demand. Most NHL fans and players come from North America, and the IIHF organized its world championship in a way that turned off North Americans for decades. It is not viewed as some prestigious championship that Canada (or USA I would think) absolutely needs to win. There's no fixing it now even though the IIHF has taken some positive steps.

That said, I hope that Fantilli plays in the tournament and plays well. Could be a good opportunity for him.

When you have a problem with IIHF, IOC, federations and KHL at the same time, it may be you (NHL) the problem.

The NHL has never collaborated with an institution if it was not subject to it.

We've already talked about it, you didn't convince me with your argument, which dated back to the 1950s.

The only international team sports that do not have international competitions are the two sports crushed by a private North American league.

If there is no international senior hockey with NHL players - it's because of the NHL. This is my point of view.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You’re right, I don’t need pro athletes to take extra time away from their families and lives to compete in a meaningless tournament. That shouldn’t be a meaningful source of pride for you. (Unless you played on the team)


We see two complete different things I guess, to each their own.

I agree, nothing more exciting than Olympic hockey with NHL players there, but you’re only proposing that this business voluntarily becomes less of a business…good luck with that!

It’s a great idealized approach to what it could be, but a delusional expectation.

As already said, a shorter regular season of 20 games with a two-week international tournament would be much more interesting.

I think the majority of players would support it elsewhere.

Would rather see Canada vs USA in a World Final than Montreal vs Ottawa 5 times a year in the regular season.

 

[WayneGretzky]

As already said, a shorter regular season of 20 games with a two-week international tournament would be much more interesting.

I think the majority of players would support it elsewhere.

Would rather see Canada vs USA in a World Final than Montreal vs Ottawa 5 times a year in the regular season.

Again, you’re idealizing. You want the NHL to voluntarily be 25% less of a business, less ticket sales, concessions, merch

What you propose is simply bad business

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Again, you’re idealizing. You want the NHL to voluntarily be 25% less of a business, less ticket sales, concessions, merch

What you propose is simply bad business

Only money, never sporty. That's what I denounce.

This is the reason why, in the future, there will be an extension of the number of regular season games, playoffs and the number of teams.

But sportingly, a world championship is more interesting.

 

[WayneGretzky]

Only money, never sporty. That's what I denounce.

This is the reason why, in the future, there will be an extension of the number of regular season games, playoffs and the number of teams.

But sportingly, a world championship is more interesting.

Go ahead and take money out of sports, it’ll become even less interesting. Money being in sports is the only reason you know about them. Otherwise everyone would be at their local pitches/rinks blown away by the local talent.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Go ahead and take money out of sports, it’ll become even less interesting. Money being in sports is the only reason you know about them. Otherwise everyone would be at their local pitches/rinks blown away by the local talent.

I knew Football with Zinedine Zidane paid 7,500 euros per month. Now Kylian Mbappé is paid 17,500,000 euros per month. What has changed sportingly ?

Do you need actors to be multi-millionaires to enjoy a sport ?

Gaelic Football is 100% amateur. However, sports competitions are very interesting.

Money does not make sporting success.

In this case, the economic interests of a private league prevent the existence of major sports competitions.

A Canada vs. USA World Final cannot exist because the overwhelming private league needs to make more money from the regular season game buildup.

 

[WayneGretzky]

I knew Football with Zinedine Zidane paid 7,500 euros per month. Now Kylian Mbappé is paid 17,500,000 euros per month. What has changed sportingly ?

Do you need actors to be multi-millionaires to enjoy a sport ?

Gaelic Football is 100% amateur. However, sports competitions are very interesting.

Money does not make sporting success.

In this case, the economic interests of a private league prevent the existence of major sports competitions.

In this case, this major sports competition (the NHL) has retained the services of what they feel to be the top players. They pay good money for those services.

You want them to reduce business by 25% in order to allow other major sporting competitions to grow…and you really don’t see an issue with that logic?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

In this case, this major sports competition (the NHL) has retained the services of what they feel to be the top players. They pay good money for those services.

You want them to reduce business by 25% in order to allow other major sporting competitions to grow…and you really don’t see an issue with that logic?

Football, Rugby, Volleyball and Handball work as I say. There is cooperation, sharing. PSG paid Mbappe 630 million for 3 years. But the French federation and FIFA have access to the player. Reason why, in Europe, nobody wants an imperialist private league which does not share anything.

 

[LemonSauceD]

You only talk about business from an NHL point of view, I talk about sport from a global point of view.

Reducing the regular season to 62 games would already be a big step forward. Reduce the number of teams or split the NHL into two tiers as well.

The players would be less tired and sportingly, the level would be much higher.

But it's only the money that matters. NHL thinks about the money.

lol, ice hockey without the NHL is gonna look like Badminton or every sport that may as well not exist outside of the Olympics and only competed in by people that work at Home Depot. Very uninformed take.

Maybe go support your local club team if you want hockey entertainment. It sounds like you might just be jealous that you know the best hockey is being played overseas and it's not as accessible for you, but that's just how it goes. In some sports like Soccer, it's the opposite and the best North American talent all goes overseas to chase the millions they can get from teams competing in Champions League.

To act like that is somehow a "problem" for ice hockey is ridiculous. Kids playing hockey in Slovakia can dream about working hard, getting recognized and escaping middling central European conditions and get rich in the NHL. If those opportunities didn't exist, they wouldn't devote so much into hockey and the sport would fizzle out.

There’s your answer @Dirtyf1ghter

 

[JackSlater]

When you have a problem with IIHF, IOC, federations and KHL at the same time, it may be you (NHL) the problem.

The NHL has never collaborated with an institution if it was not subject to it.

We've already talked about it, you didn't convince me with your argument, which dated back to the 1950s.

The only international team sports that do not have international competitions are the two sports crushed by a private North American league.

If there is no international senior hockey with NHL players - it's because of the NHL. This is my point of view.

Not getting along with the IOC and KHL is by no means a sign of being a problem. The IIHF's stupidity also goes decades before the 1950s, so I don't know why that is your specific period. The ship has sailed and there is no reason for the NHL to do anything that its customers (fans) or the players don't want. Whether you like it or not the reasons that there is not a big demand for the tournament in the NHL's customer base (or player base) go back to decisions the IIHF made decades ago.

 

[WayneGretzky]

Football, Rugby, Volleyball and Handball work as I say. There is cooperation, sharing. PSG paid Mbappe 630 million for 3 years. But the French federation and FIFA have access to the player. Reason why, in Europe, nobody wants an imperialist private league which does not share anything.

You seem to be forgetting that these players (NHL Included) are independent contractors. If a free agent player in the NHL wants to sign a deal in say, the SHL, and be allowed to compete internationally for their country and geographical pride, they absolutely have that option. Most players don’t, most players of a certain caliber prefer to play in the NHL.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You seem to be forgetting that these players (NHL Included) are independent contractors. If a free agent player in the NHL wants to sign a deal in say, the SHL, and be allowed to compete internationally for their country and geographical pride, they absolutely have that option. Most players don’t, most players of a certain caliber prefer to play in the NHL.

They prefer to play in NHL because the pay gap is huge between NHL and SHL. Not for sporting love.

You're going to tell me: you see, it's money that makes sport.

Except that I am on another basis : would the players prefer to play 20 fewer regular season games? Yes. Would the players prefer to play 2 weeks for their country? Yes.

Reconciling sporting issues with economic issues, sharing between all players - that's how it works in Europe.

NHL is just money, money, money. The athlete is secondary. Respect for other institutions does not exist.

 

[WayneGretzky]

They prefer to play in NHL because the pay gap is huge between NHL and SHL. Not for sporting love.

You're going to tell me: you see, it's money that makes sport.

Except that I am on another basis: would the players prefer to play 20 fewer regular season games? Yes. Would the players prefer to play 2 weeks for their country? Yes.

Would the players love the 25% pay cut? You sir are a fool in a man’s hat.

Your blame (not that I feel it’s warranted) should be on the players who choose the higher pay, not the employer for offering

 

[WarriorofTime]

Except that I am on another basis : would the players prefer to play 20 fewer regular season games? Yes. Would the players prefer to play 2 weeks for their country? Yes.

then why don't they bargain for that in the CBA? You know the players have a Players Association union, and if they collectively want something, they have some negotiating power (for instance, they specifically asked to go to the Olympics in the last CBA)? A shorter season means less revenue, which means less revenue split 50-50 between owners and players, which means less dollars in their pocket. Clearly the NHL players prefer the longer season and to make more money than to play in the IIHF World Championship.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Would the players love the 25% pay cut? You sir are a fool in a man’s hat.

Your blame (not that I feel it’s warranted) should be on the players who choose the higher pay, not the employer for offering

The French football league has canceled a National Cup and 4 league games without this having any financial consequences. Salaries will not be reduced.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

then why don't they bargain for that in the CBA? You know the players have a Players Association union, and if they collectively want something, they have some negotiating power (for instance, they specifically asked to go to the Olympics in the last CBA)? A shorter season means less revenue, which means less revenue split 50-50 between owners and players, which means less dollars in their pocket. Clearly the NHL players prefer the longer season and to make more money than to play in the IIHF World Championship.

This will inevitably happen especially with the change of players. The NHL of tomorrow will be composed mainly of European players. Each year, more and more of them are in the draft. We now see Croats, Italians, Hungarians, Lithuanians emerging in the young leagues. The NHL imposes its law and develops an “everything for NHL” culture, but young Europeans love their country, love their home teams. When they are in the majority, they will change mentalities.

The NHL must change. Respect the work of the federations, prioritize the interests of ice hockey to develop hockey. Not everything can be built around money.

NHL seasons have been boycotted by players. It shows that there is not a total love of players for the NHL system.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Can you open your own thread if you want to talk about nhl v IIHF, this has nothing to do with Fantilli

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Can you open your own thread if you want to talk about nhl v IIHF, this has nothing to do with Fantilli

These things happen all the time on all topics.

My words do not prevent talking about Fantilli, a player who has no news until May 8.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Anyways, Fantilli reminds me of Modano. Incredible talent.

 

[Vachon23]

Anyways, Fantilli reminds me of Modano. Incredible talent.

Not the 1st time I see this comparaison but sadly I never saw prime Mike Modano so hard to judge

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Not the 1st time I see this comparaison but sadly I never saw prime Mike Modano so hard to judge

I don't think LemonSauceD did either.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Btw why didn't he play in the NCAA playoffs?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Btw why didn't he play in the NCAA playoffs?

What do you mean ?

If you're looking at elite prospects and switched to playoffs and don't see anything it's because the NCAA just puts everything together.

 

[FDBluth]

Not the 1st time I see this comparaison but sadly I never saw prime Mike Modano so hard to judge

I think maybe a good way to think of him is like a Guy Lafleur-lite?

 

[Boonk]

Anyways, I look forward to seeing Fantilli in a Canadian uni in Riga.