Proposal: Building for 2021-2022

[CrockyCrock]

I could argue this is exactly the reason we would want danault. The team has had something missing from it since Dubinsky is gone. And yeah I know he “left” along with Panarin and the big guns but his value in the circle and other things is something we miss

Yea I don’t disagree that gritty type player would be nice again which is why in a comment last night I wished Jarmo had the foresight to hunt down O’Reilly rather than Duchene. Plus OReillys contact goes for a bit yet and right before he hits that wall of effectiveness like Dubi did.

to that point is why I still wouldn’t really want Danault. Solid player for sure but if we end up giving him 6.5x6 or 7 at 28 years old he might be nothing but a face off guy like Dubi at the end fairly quickly into that contract. Pipe dream I know but until he’s traded elsewhere I want to be the team to get Eichel. Off the top of my head maybe Sean Kuraly or someone like that can fill a role winning face offs and PKing.

 

[KJ Dangler]

I'm going to say this slowly and with emphasis so it's made absolutely clear:

I.
Don't.
Care.

I don't care about the scouting, I don't care about the highlights, I don't care about the reviews, I don't care about the comparisons, I don't care how much hype there is, I don't care how long folks have been babbling about this stuff, I don't care if "this time it's different" or whatever the f***, I Don't Care. It's all still the same old braindead One True Savior narrative that has always failed. Always. Always always always. Every single time. No exceptions, ever, not once in the NHL's entire lifetime; it is the most constant thing in the history of hockey. Even Wayne f***ing Gretzky needed his supporting cast. Not one team has ever in the entire history of organized professional hockey been resurrected by this Single Savior bullshit. Not ONE. But hundreds upon hundreds - perhaps even THOUSANDS - have been utterly ruined by the pursuit of that fool's gold dumbf***ery. And if that becomes the core objective of this team, I'm f***ing done.

Every f***ing rough year, it's the same old bullshit. "Oh, but you gotta hear about this kid, Everything Will Be Better." NO. f*** that shit. I'm done with it, I'm not hearing it. It's the same g-ddamn narrative every time with the same g-ddamned failure result every time, and I am no longer tolerating this nonsense. If anyone wants to go play Russian Roulette, fine, they can do their silly gambling-or-death nonsense, but don't do it with my team.

If we luck into getting someone like that, great. Trying to force it is death.

Dang... pop a xanax or something . Its a message board, you dont want to think about the future, or spitball how it could be approached , ignore the thread/ post, and move on .

 

[majormajor]

Yea I don’t disagree that gritty type player would be nice again which is why in a comment last night I wished Jarmo had the foresight to hunt down O’Reilly rather than Duchene. Plus OReillys contact goes for a bit yet and right before he hits that wall of effectiveness like Dubi did.

to that point is why I still wouldn’t really want Danault. Solid player for sure but if we end up giving him 6.5x6 or 7 at 28 years old he might be nothing but a face off guy like Dubi at the end fairly quickly into that contract. Pipe dream I know but until he’s traded elsewhere I want to be the team to get Eichel. Off the top of my head maybe Sean Kuraly or someone like that can fill a role winning face offs and PKing.

Danault isn't really sandpaper like Dubi, he's more like glue.

He wouldn't be worth the risk of a $6.5m x 6 deal, I doubt anyone signs him to that. If he recaptures all the magic he had with Gallagher here, then sure, but that's a lot to ask for.

I'd like to sign him to a $5.5m x 6 - I think that might even be the winning bid and he provides an immediate benefit. And who knows, maybe he can find that magic with Bjorkstrand and they can outscore opponents 2-1 together. But I've also seen Danault disappoint in two playoffs in a row now, I'm hesitating on him.

In my "go for broke" lineups (latest is a couple pages back now) both Eichel and Danault are acquired.

 

[majormajor]

I'm going to say this slowly and with emphasis so it's made absolutely clear:

I.
Don't.
Care.

I don't care about the scouting, I don't care about the highlights, I don't care about the reviews, I don't care about the comparisons, I don't care how much hype there is, I don't care how long folks have been babbling about this stuff, I don't care if "this time it's different" or whatever the f***, I Don't Care. It's all still the same old braindead One True Savior narrative that has always failed. Always. Always always always. Every single time. No exceptions, ever, not once in the NHL's entire lifetime; it is the most constant thing in the history of hockey. Even Wayne f***ing Gretzky needed his supporting cast. Not one team has ever in the entire history of organized professional hockey been resurrected by this Single Savior bullshit. Not ONE. But hundreds upon hundreds - perhaps even THOUSANDS - have been utterly ruined by the pursuit of that fool's gold dumbf***ery. And if that becomes the core objective of this team, I'm f***ing done.

Every f***ing rough year, it's the same old bullshit. "Oh, but you gotta hear about this kid, Everything Will Be Better." NO. f*** that shit. I'm done with it, I'm not hearing it. It's the same g-ddamn narrative every time with the same g-ddamned failure result every time, and I am no longer tolerating this nonsense. If anyone wants to go play Russian Roulette, fine, they can do their silly gambling-or-death nonsense, but don't do it with my team.

If we luck into getting someone like that, great. Trying to force it is death.

One True Savior I agree, it doesn't work.

That's why we'll get five Saviors.

I respect your view here. For me a rebuild plan where Werenski and Bjorkstrand are willing to stick it out for two years before we go all out again is a much better plan. We might need to pay Werenski like the Sens paid Chabot to get him to go along. How would you assess the Sens rebuild? I think they're going to be a great team within a year or two and offer a good model for us.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

Just for fun, I went to Capfriendly and put together a team I'd like to see the Jackets put on the ice next fall. A lot of this might be far fetched but I thought I'd give it a whirl. I made some trades and some signings and still had 950K in cap space. Here's what I did.

Trades
To Buffalo: Zach Werenski, Joonas Korpisalo, Alexandre Texier, Scott Harrington, CBJ 2021 1st Rd.
To CBJ: Jack Eichel, Rasmus Ristolainen

To Chicago: Dean Kukan, 2021 TOR 1st Rd. and 2022 TOR 4th Rd.
To CBJ: Connor Murphy

To Vegas: Emil Bemstrom, 2021 TBL 1st, 2021 NJD 5th
To CBJ: Reilly Smith

Signings
Patrik Laine - 2 yrs, 15M (7.5M AAV)
Blake Coleman - 3 yrs., 9M (3M AAV)

Lineup
Patrik Laine - Jack Eichel - Oliver Bjorkstrand
Gustav Nyquist - Jack Roslovic - Cam Atkinson
Blake Coleman - Max Domi - Reilly Smith
Eric Robinson - Boone Jenner - Liam Foudy
Yegor Chinakov

Vladislav Gavrikov - Seth Jones
Gabriel Carlsson - Connor Murphy
Andrew Peeke - Rasmus Ristolainen

Elvis Merzlikins
Matiss Kivlenieks

I think the main lesson of this sort of roster exercise - and the same reason I posted my similar exercise a couple pages back - is that the Jackets can still be pretty darn good next year if they want to be. It doesn't even require Jones to want to stay, as he could be the one moved for Eichel instead of Werenski.

Quibbles
- You've only got two LD and one of them is Gabe Carlsson, who I don't think is NHL caliber. Should probably hang on to MDZ and/or Lehtonen, or sign a guy like Ryan Murray.

- The forward lineup is stacked and loaded for bear. One issue I foresee is that there's only one "hard-minutes" option and that's the Jenner line, and that would require them to eat up minutes at the expense of Domi and Roslovic's lines. Having Coleman center a hard minutes line would be better.

- Coleman will cost at least $4m if it's a 3 year deal.

- The Eichel trade only works with a third team involved. They can't keep Jones or Werenski so we or they need to convert Jones/Z into a top prospect. Luckily there are a lot of clubs around the league that would pay through the nose for one of those two.

- I love the Connor Murphy addition. Filling that RD spot might leave us no other option but a big trade like that, and he is a good shutdown D that can skate. Murphy can be best friends with Max Domi.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Have seen recent posts mentioning Connor Murphy and Sean Kuraly. Anyone know where they are from?

 

[Monk]

Have seen recent posts mentioning Connor Murphy and Sean Kuraly. Anyone know where they are from?

The name to the left of the post identifies who it's from.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The name to the left of the post identifies who it's from.

Instant IP Address Lookup

 

[Monk]

Instant IP Address Lookup

Can mods see our IP addresses?

 

[majormajor]

Let’s say we get Clarke this year, trade Jones for a good right D prospect and really good wing prospect, a center from one of the late 2021 firsts looks ok after 2 years of development, and draft two close to ready centers in 2022 and 2023:


Tex - 2022 center - Bjork
Foudy - Roslovic - wing (Jones trade)
Chinakhov - Voronkov - Marchenko
Bemstrom - 2021 late first - Atkinson

Werenski - Clarke
Gav - Peeke
Lehtonen - right D (Jones trade)

Korpi or Elvis
Tarasov

2023 center
2021 late first
other trade returns, prospects

Plenty of cap space to add someone big or two pretty good guys in free agency

Not sure if you caught this post from the previous page, but we're thinking very much alike.

Call this one "Building for 2024".

Chinakhov - Holloway - Bjorkstrand
Marchenko - Svechkov - Michkov
Texier - Roslovic - Atkinson
Angle - Voronkov - Foudy
Othmann

Werenski - Clarke
Gavrikov - UFA
OJBH - Peeke

UFA
Kivlenieks

Brandt Clarke 6th OA 2021.
Brennan Othmann 25th OA 2021.
Logan Cooley 6th OA 2022
Matvei Michkov 2nd OA 2023

Seth Jones for Dylan Holloway - Holloway provides a Horvat type impact and buys time for Logan Cooley to become the #1C.
Cooley is still in the AHL in this scenario.
Patrik Laine for Kings' 9th OA in 2021 - Fedor Svechkov selected.

Extra additions to the stable:
2 2nd rounders from Elvis trade in 2021
late 1st from Jenner trade at 2022 deadline
2nd + 4th from Nyquist trade at 2023 deadline

How good is this team?

Still not good in 2024, probably. Bound to be very inconsistent with this many young players.

But I'd expect them to be very good within a year or two of this point. Michkov will be one of the best players in the league, the top 4D are probably very good, and the team has a great flow of ELC talent into every forward position. It's not clear who would emerge as legit topliners but the volume of draft capital suggests our chances of filling those jobs are good.

Realism check:

I tried to presume the normal proportion of busts - Bemstrom, 1 late 2021 1st, Knazko, Tarasov, TFW, Pyyhtia, etc...

Is this luckier than a typical rebuild? I'd say yes, but also not implausibly so. The Senators have just been arguably luckier. Landing Michkov, by itself is lucky, but the reason this team is loaded with high level young players is because we poured a ton of draft/trade capital into making that happen.

Those UFA spots would have to be $12m plus in total just to get the Jackets to the cap floor, by the way, so expect some good veterans in those spots.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Can mods see our IP addresses?

LOL the seed has been planted. Imagined or inferred power is greater than the real thing.

 

[Kevo22363]

In before Korpisalo and a second for McDavid. The Oilers might throw in Draisaitl too.

 

[majormajor]

In before Korpisalo and a second for McDavid. The Oilers might throw in Draisaitl too.

I think it would require more than that...

Try Korpisalo, Nyquist, and a 2nd.

 

[Kevo22363]

I listened to JD's interview on Rothman and Ice from yesterday and did anyone catch JD's name slip up when talking about our goalies? He said Tarasenko instead of Tarasov. Has to mean we're going after Vladimir Tarasenko, right? I kid, just grasping for straws. I want something big to happen this offseason, to give me and many others a jolt to get excited about season 21.

 

[KJ Dangler]

So if we are looking for a center that can replace Dubinsky … ABSOLUTELY no interest in Danault , give me Kadri

 

[koteka]

Not sure if you caught this post from the previous page, but we're thinking very much alike.

Yes. I think we are in the same area code.

You are more specific than I am. I think there are sorts of ways that a rebuild works based on next two draft classes. Clarke or a major RD prospect return for Jones are necessary though.

Another thing I think we need are a couple of big guys. Like one of our lates 2021 firsts should probably be big. We could use a couple more forwards in the 6’2” or 6’3” range. Got my eye on Olausson as a possibility for one of the late firsts. We need a guy that can grow into a Foligno kind of role. Not an enforcer, but a couple of “I don’t really want to tangle with that guy” types if we do bring in a couple of highly skilled guys.

 

[majormajor]

Yes. I think we are in the same area code.

You are more specific than I am. I think there are sorts of ways that a rebuild works based on next two draft classes. Clarke or a major RD prospect return for Jones are necessary though.

Another thing I think we need are a couple of big guys. Like one of our lates 2021 firsts should probably be big. We could use a couple more forwards in the 6’2” or 6’3” range. Got my eye on Olausson as a possibility for one of the late firsts. We need a guy that can grow into a Foligno kind of role. Not an enforcer, but a couple of “I don’t really want to tangle with that guy” types if we do bring in a couple of highly skilled guys.

Agreed. I was thinking Olausson was more like a Saad-type PF than a nasty guy.

The super nasty guys that we might be able to get with our late 1st would be like Tyler Boucher or Zachary L'Heureux.

Mason McTavish is a tank and he plays really hard, but he'll probably be gone around 10th.

It might end up best to try and nab that kind of player later, Nadeau and Gasseau are a couple of big bruisers that could be had in the middle rounds.

It's going to be tough. Every GM is looking for the next Josh Anderson they can get in the mid rounds. Especially after Tom Wilson got away with ragdolling Panarin. No one wants to be the small team in that position.

 

[koteka]

Have seen recent posts mentioning Connor Murphy and Sean Kuraly. Anyone know where they are from?

When do we get a “let’s trade for Nedeljkovic” post?

 

[koteka]

Agreed. I was thinking Olausson was more like a Saad-type PF than a nasty guy.

Right now I am looking more at size/skill more than size/nasty. So I don’t know his personality. I just look at what is left in our line up (or will be if Boone and Jones go) and the taller guys don’t seem that scary - Foudy, Robinson, Laine, etc. Olausson just seems like maybe he could be that kind of middle six skill guy that will be big and solid and maybe throw a hard check occasionally.

 

[MAHJ71]

So if we are looking for a center that can replace Dubinsky … ABSOLUTELY no interest in Danault , give me Kadri

But we would have to find a replacement for him in the playoffs

 

[KJ Dangler]

But we would have to find a replacement for him in the playoffs

Playoffs …

in all seriousness this should resolve some lingering misconceptions around this board . From Porty a few minutes ago…
The observation has been made that only 10 players are left from the team that swept Tampa Bay two years ago. My question is, why did we have to lose all these players? I’m sure many of the fans feel the same way that John Tortorella feels, which is that everything this team seemed to be working towards just completely fell apart. — Jeff G.
Each situation is different. Look at the players who left via free agency: Artemi Panarin, Sergei Bobrovsky, Matt Duchene, and Ryan Dzingel. The Jackets tried to keep Panarin, but couldn’t. (You know that story.) They would have kept Bobrovsky at a certain price, but not the one he was looking for, not with Korpisalo and Merzlikins coming up through the system. Duchene and Dzingel were not offered contracts

 

[MissADD]

Playoffs …

in all seriousness this should resolve some lingering misconceptions around this board . From Porty a few minutes ago…
The observation has been made that only 10 players are left from the team that swept Tampa Bay two years ago. My question is, why did we have to lose all these players? I’m sure many of the fans feel the same way that John Tortorella feels, which is that everything this team seemed to be working towards just completely fell apart. — Jeff G.
Each situation is different. Look at the players who left via free agency: Artemi Panarin, Sergei Bobrovsky, Matt Duchene, and Ryan Dzingel. The Jackets tried to keep Panarin, but couldn’t. (You know that story.) They would have kept Bobrovsky at a certain price, but not the one he was looking for, not with Korpisalo and Merzlikins coming up through the system. Duchene and Dzingel were not offered contracts

I didn't know Duchene wasn't offered a contract ( I am not shocked tho. It wasn't a secret that he wanted Nashville.) And his contract sucks. Dzingel wasn't a fit, but the trade did net the CBJ Angle, who I rate. As for Bob, I think this series vs Tampa is exactly why not signing him to that deal was a great decision. Not signing Bread did suck. But because of the result of going all in, it gave the fan base a memorable playoffs and not signing anyone, save Bread, may have done less damage in the long run.

 

[majormajor]

As for Bob, I think this series vs Tampa is exactly why not signing him to that deal was a great decision.

Columbus didn't want to pay Bob $10m per but by Porty's own reporting they did make some huge offers to him, something in the $8m or $9m per range. I count this one as the Jackets getting lucky that Bob wasn't interested in staying.

Of course he was publicly committed to leaving and not accepting any Jackets offer, I don't know why Porty only tells that part of the story sometimes and leaves it out others, as if money was all that was being haggled over. There was in truth no haggling at all, with Bob basically ignoring Jarmo (according to Bob).

 

[KJ Dangler]

Columbus didn't want to pay Bob $10m per but by Porty's own reporting they did make some huge offers to him, something in the $8m or $9m per range. I count this one as the Jackets getting lucky that Bob wasn't interested in staying.

Of course he was publicly committed to leaving and not accepting any Jackets offer, I don't know why Porty only tells that part of the story sometimes and leaves it out others, as if money was all that was being haggled over. There was in truth no haggling at all, with Bob basically ignoring Jarmo (according to Bob).

I can guarantee the term wasn’t anywhere near what Florida offered as well . Jarmo always knew that Korpi / Elvis would be there soon .