Buffalo Bills 2014 Draft: Rd1#4 WR Sammy Watkins; Rd2#44 C. Kouandjio; Stevie traded

[Zman5778]

It just annoys me that we had to give up so much to select Watkins. That's the problem with being mediocre. I would have rather the team been terrible last year so that we could have drafted high without having to give up a 2015 1st.

Here's my thing with the Watkins deal:

Who else could we have picked at #9 (even hindsight being 20/20) that could give us the impact of Watkins??? My answer: no one.

In order to be a playoff team, you need upper echelon players somewhere on the roster. We've got an upper-echelon center, an upper-echelon D-line....and that's it. Kiko and Gilmore look to be on that border too. We've got one of the better running games in the NFL, so now add a legit, honest-to-god #1 WR. My hunch is that that 1st rounder in 2015 will now be somewhere in the teens, hopefully upper teens.

We might not be one player away from being a contender, but this is a necessary piece.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

He wants continued mediocrity, which is what we had with Fitz and Stevie.

Yes, I want to go 6-10 every year, that's why I complain about QB constantly.

You're crazy if you wouldn't want Fitz as our backup now or Stevie as a slot WR. They're good players. I understand moving on, but don't tell me those are 'win now' moves. They are moves to appease the stupid fanbase.

And bold is not hoping EJ Manuel will suddenly be an accurate QB. That's the same crap this team has done for a decade.

 

[Beerz]

Yes, I want to go 6-10 every year, that's why I complain about QB constantly.

You're crazy if you wouldn't want Fitz as our backup now or Stevie as a slot WR. They're good players. I understand moving on, but don't tell me those are 'win now' moves. They are moves to appease the stupid fanbase.

And bold is not hoping EJ Manuel will suddenly be an accurate QB. That's the same crap this team has done for a decade.

Yeah... I don't know how anyone can buy the "win now" mode after trading your best wide receiver for a 5th round draft choice.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Kiper and McShay didn't love our draft at all

Well, what is their track record of post-draft evaluations? This may be a good thing.

 

[whiplash]

What are you talking about ?

Don't try to comprehend it.

Kiper and McShay didn't love our draft at all

Good, they both have terrible track records of evaluating talent

 

[johnjm22]

Here's my thing with the Watkins deal:

Who else could we have picked at #9 (even hindsight being 20/20) that could give us the impact of Watkins??? My answer: no one.

In order to be a playoff team, you need upper echelon players somewhere on the roster. We've got an upper-echelon center, an upper-echelon D-line....and that's it. Kiko and Gilmore look to be on that border too. We've got one of the better running games in the NFL, so now add a legit, honest-to-god #1 WR. My hunch is that that 1st rounder in 2015 will now be somewhere in the teens, hopefully upper teens.

We might not be one player away from being a contender, but this is a necessary piece.

Don't get me wrong, I like the pick, and the boldness of the move. I'm just saying I would rather do a proper rebuild and go into all out suck mode so that we didn't have to give up 2 1st rounders to get a player like him.

Going 1-15 isn't any more painful than going 6-10.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Don't get me wrong, I like the pick, and the boldness of the move. I'm just saying I would rather do a proper rebuild and go into all out suck mode so that we didn't have to give up 2 1st rounders to get a player like him.

Going 1-15 isn't any more painful than going 6-10.

I don't think the idea of a "rebuild" really translates to the NFL. Too many positions to fill, and not a lot of value in trading away players (relative to the NHL) to stock futures.

The only teams that have done what you recommend and have come out ahead are the ones who got a franchise quarterback out of it. It all comes back to the QB. The Lions sucked for how long, kept picking the top WRs, and it never helped...until they picked Stafford.

Sucking this year wouldn't have helped of course given the QB crop. Next year...who knows...I remember this time last year everyone was looking forward to the Bridgewater/Mariota/Manziel/Hundley draft...and guys like Boyd, maybe even Thomas were considered decent prospects who needed more seasoning. But Mariota/Hundley not coming out, and the others not putting together a can't miss season (or in some cases, putting together a can't make season)...

 

[Djp]

Im suprised they did that but i understand why. They felt the didnt have that true number 1 WR. That was the biggest need.

 

[flyingpig]

Yes, I want to go 6-10 every year, that's why I complain about QB constantly.

You're crazy if you wouldn't want Fitz as our backup now or Stevie as a slot WR. They're good players. I understand moving on, but don't tell me those are 'win now' moves. They are moves to appease the stupid fanbase.

And bold is not hoping EJ Manuel will suddenly be an accurate QB. That's the same crap this team has done for a decade.

I am not saying win now. I am saying culture change and re-defining the team. I liked Stevie. I liked him on the team. However, I for one think the management knows more about this team than anyone posting on here and is moving the team in a new direction in an aggressive way. We now have what we expect to be a bonfire superstar. They did not have to move Stevie. They chose to move Stevie. Fitz was average and had no chance to get better.

 

[Paxon]

Yes, I want to go 6-10 every year, that's why I complain about QB constantly.

You're crazy if you wouldn't want Fitz as our backup now or Stevie as a slot WR. They're good players. I understand moving on, but don't tell me those are 'win now' moves. They are moves to appease the stupid fanbase.

And bold is not hoping EJ Manuel will suddenly be an accurate QB. That's the same crap this team has done for a decade.

It's not like the team doesn't want Stevie as a slot receiver. I'm sure the team would love really good players in every spot of the depth chart, but that's not exactly practical. I haven't looked at the contract but I assume they could have waited to move Stevie until after this season and received the same cap relief next year and beyond, but they chose to cut ties now. That isn't a bad idea.

Fitz as back-up has a marginal impact on the quality of the team. He was the incumbent starter that the team quite wisely wanted to upgrade on. Whether they did or didn't is another matter, but once they made that decision, it's another case where it's reasonable for a new staff to just move on rather than demote him.

 

[hizzoner]

I watch football but acknowledge I have no expertise rating college players and nfl wannabes. That of course will not stop me from hazarding my assessment of the draft! One big risk....after another. The Bills rolled the dice--paid highly for a highly touted 6 foot wide receiver with average speed, then drafted offensive linemen with various question marks. If they pan out to their perceived capabilities then the Bills have done better than well. And my lottery ticket could see me win millions....

 

[BananaSquad]

I watch football but acknowledge I have no expertise rating college players and nfl wannabes. That of course will not stop me from hazarding my assessment of the draft! One big risk....after another. The Bills rolled the dice--paid highly for a highly touted 6 foot wide receiver with average speed, then drafted offensive linemen with various question marks. If they pan out to their perceived capabilities then the Bills have done better than well. And my lottery ticket could see me win millions....

well thats not true.

 

[hizzoner]

I am relying on Lindy's stats--4.47 in the 40.. Of the top 20 wide receivers listed 4 were faster and 8 more were in the 4.48 4.49 range. So to be fair-average for receivers expected to be drafted and play in the NFL.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

He ran a 4.43 at the combine and a 4.39 at his pro day. You might be the only one who thinks Watkins has average speed, he's fast and quick.

 

[Dubi Doo]

^^^^

That's what makes him a top 5 pick; he's fast, elusive, has great hands, good vision, and can weave through tackles or run through someone. He's the complete package. You can throw a screen his way, and he'll gain 20 yards. He can be used as a deep threat. Etc...

There's a reason why he was the unanimous top receiver available in a draft deep with quality receivers. I understand people being annoyed with the trade. I understand people being pissy about drafting a receiver so high and mortgaging the future while we have a huge question mark at quarterback, but don't under estimate this kids potential. He's the real deal, and I'm thrilled to have him on this team going forward.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Really the only knock on Watkins that I can think of is size. He's only 6'1". he doesn't have Calvin Johnson/Randy Moss size.

Of course, he has everything else, which as the James Hardy experiment proved, matters a helluva lot more.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Don't try to comprehend it.


Good, they both have terrible track records of evaluating talent

CBS guys didn't like it either but the guy said his main reason was because they gave up next years $1 which will likely be a Top 15 pick. If this year bombs it would be nice to look for that QB. Might be a decent looking class next year.

 

[Zman5778]

Really the only knock on Watkins that I can think of is size. He's only 6'1". he doesn't have Calvin Johnson/Randy Moss size.

Of course, he has everything else, which as the James Hardy experiment proved, matters a helluva lot more.

What I like is that I haven't seen a "direct" comparison with Watkins' skill level.

All I see is a bunch of "Kind of like X, but better".


It's nice to have a prospect that's better than their comparables, not "but a little worse" or "tops out at"

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I like what we've done in each of the last 3 drafts for the most part.

It just annoys me that we had to give up so much to select Watkins. That's the problem with being mediocre. I would have rather the team been terrible last year so that we could have drafted high without having to give up a 2015 1st.

Last year was a men for me but getting Kiko made up for a head scratching 1st round pick that controls our whole fate at this point. To be honest these past 2 years none of the QBs were too good. Brotles might be alright but I'm skeptical.

 

[Zman5778]

CBS guys didn't like it either but the guy said his main reason was because they gave up next years $1 which will likely be a Top 15 pick. If this year bombs it would be nice to look for that QB. Might be a decent looking class next year.

At QB?? Unless someone comes out of one-year-wonderland, it's Mariota, Winston and Hundley......with Petty possibly falling into the mix.

Right now, Mariota and Winston seem to be top-5 locks if they're not the hands-down top 2 prospects. No way we're that bad next year, even if we didn't trade for Watkins.

Hundley? Probably would have been the first QB off the board this year, which probably means he's a top 10 guy next year.....probably out of our range too.


So realistically speaking, we're looking at the possibility of maybe giving up a shot at the 3rd/4th/5th best QB in the 2015 draft.

 

[Paxon]

The 40 yard dash is almost pointless. I admittedly watch little college football but all you have to do is watch a single highlights package to see that Watkins is both fast and quick at football speed. Fast enough to beat corners deep, quick enough to be very elusive in space. To top it off, he's as prone to initiate and succeed through contact as he is to use his quicks to beat defenders. That means that he will be elusive whether he's quicker than the players pursuing or not, because he fights for yards.

Basically the only thing you can say about Watkins to put him down is that he isn't tall. He isn't short, either. He's basically an average-height receiver with an above-average vertical. He's good at jump balls. Is he as good at it as Megatron? No, of course not, but he's probably going to be better at it than anyone our team has had in recent memory, and that's despite it not being his major strength. On paper he is the best WR prospect since Green and Jones. At best (not saying it's likely or not), he could be better than either, though not as good as Calvin Johnson. I don't see how he doesn't end up being the best skill position player we've had in a long time.

Last year was a men for me but getting Kiko made up for a head scratching 1st round pick that controls our whole fate at this point. To be honest these past 2 years none of the QBs were too good. Brotles might be alright but I'm skeptical.

We picked a crap time to need (and address) a franchise QB for sure. Too bad we didn't take Wilson in the 4th or wherever it was we could have had him. I know a lot of people here and on Buffalo Rumblings were dying for it to happen. Not saying he'd be a huge success with this roster but there's no doubting the kid's worthy of being a long-term QB.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Really the only knock on Watkins that I can think of is size. He's only 6'1". he doesn't have Calvin Johnson/Randy Moss size.

Of course, he has everything else, which as the James Hardy experiment proved, matters a helluva lot more.

Yeah he may only be 6'1 but so what. Drafting size over skill is why the Bills take James freakin Hardy and passed over 5'10 DeSean Jackson. Watkins has me so stoked for this season. He can take a screen all the way to the house with how elusive and quick he is. He also is strong and can break tackles and even run over guys like he did to first round pick Shazier in the orange bowl this year. I also thought it was interesting that at the combine 6'5 230 pound Mike Evans who has 4 inches and 25 pounds on Watkins only had 12 reps at 225 and Sammy had 16 reps. Not bad for a "short" guy.

And going back to Mike Williams and his contract, it really isn't bad at all. This season he is playing for 1.8 mil. The Bucs paid more then half his guaranteed money last year. In 2015 he is guaranteed 5.2 and 6.8 overall. So pretty much we only need to have him for 2 years at a total of 8.6 mil. 4.3 per for 2 years is a steal for a solid #2. And if he gets in trouble then we can dump him before 2016 and by then Woods will solidify himself as a true #2 or 1B WR.

These are my slightly optimistic guesses for our pass catchers this season...

Sammy Watkins 65-900-6
Mike Williams 60-900-7
Robert Woods 50-800-4
Scott Chandler 50-600-5
Goodwin/Graham etc 30-300-2

Not counting the RBs that is 24 pass TDS from our QB. It may be a little optimistic as you have to take into account Fredy and CJ catching balls and adding in a few scores but it isn't that overboard. Manuel was on pace for 20 pass TDS projected over 16 games as a rookie with only 2 legit WRs and a shoddy pass protection OL.

And I love all the draft "experts" mad we dealt our 2015 1st as they already predict EJ sucks and that we will be forced to draft a QB in the 1st next year. Considering we will be picking 7th at worst we surely won't be getting any Andrew Luck type QBs at that range even if we did keep our 1st. And god forbid we can't just attempt to sign a QB in the off season.

Potential free agent QBs in 2015
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
Alex Smith

Those are 3 top 15-20 QBs.Surely Kap will be franchised but I could see Smith and Dalton hitting the open market. We weren't afraid to spend on Mario, so if Dalton's a FA and Manuel falters this season we can just sign Dalton to a 5/70 type deal. But if Manuel can lead us to an 8-8 season and puts up 3500 yards and 20-25 TDS then that is definitely worthy of a starting QB. So just this, **** you Kiper and McShay. McShay said Gabbert would be better then Cam Newton And all of the experts agreed that Watkins was the best offensive player in the draft. If the Pats made a move like that they would get an A+++ grade.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/28/4278476/2013-nfl-draft-grades-mel-kiper-ravens-bills-packers

Kiper panned our 2013 draft too he felt Alonso was a reach in the 2nd even though in a redraft he is a top 5 pick easily. Kiper is a ****** nozzle.In my mind trading down and picking up the extra 2nd to get Alonso is pretty much like getting an extra 1st. Alonso in this draft would be a top 6 pick tied with Mack or maybe slightly below him. We have struck gold with Alonso, Woods and Glenn in the 2nd the past few years and Koundjio should be no different. Him and Glenn will bookend our OL for 10 years. Our top 2 picks this year are only turning 21 in the next month or two so they have extra untapped potential and should have longer careers then a guy like Zack Martin who is almost 3 full years older then Cyrus.

 

[jBuds]

Can't say we struck gold with Robert ****ing Woods just yet. Commmme onnnnnnnn

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Can't say we struck gold with Robert ****ing Woods just yet. Commmme onnnnnnnn

Why not? For a mid 2nd round pick he did damn good last year considering the circumstances. He had a rookie QB, an undrafted career backup and an undrafted god awful rookie QB as his QBs all season. He missed 2 games and put up 40-587-3 in 14 games. Not only that but he was the youngest WR in the entire NFL last season and one of the youngest players period. As a rookie wideout he was great. Look at some of the rookie WRs in the last few decades the Bills have had and what they did as rookies...

Robert Woods - 14 games, 40-587-3

Stevie - 11 games, 10-102-2
Moulds - 16 games, 20-279-2
Peerless- 16 games, 31-393-3
Andre - 16 games, 48-637-4
J. Reed - 16 games, 37-509-2

Those are 5 of the top 11 receiving leaders in Bills history that were drafted by the Bills. The only two who were more productive as rookies were Lee Evans and Jerry Butler. Woods even had a higher ypg then Andre did as a rookie. 2nd round picks aren't guaranteed to be anything but as a rookie Woods did damn good considering the circumstances. At the very least he is going to be a solid #2 WR, and most likely be a 1B. He broke records at USC including Keyshawn's records. I would consider him a better prospect then his former teammate who just got drafted in Marqise Lee and the thing is Woods is younger then Lee yet is going into his 2nd season. Woods is actually younger then 15 of the 32 first round picks in this years draft. To get a #2 WR and possibly a #1 WR in the mid 2nd is striking gold in my eyes. But the Bills in General have done well picking in the 2nd since 03. They have gotten Glenn, Woods, A Williams, Pos, Levitre, Kiko, Byrd, and Kelsay since 03. The only ones they whiffed on were Hardy and Torell Troup since 03.

If the Bills weren't confident in Woods I don't think they would have moved Stevie. A lot of WRs outside of the ones drafted high in the 1st struggle their first year or even longer. He had more receiving yards as a rookie then Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Justin Hunter, Aaron Dobson, Michael Floyd, AJ Jenkins, Brian Quick, Stephen Hill, Alshon Jeffrey, Ryan Broyles and Reuben Randle did and those were WRs all drafted in the 1st or 2nd round in '12 and '13. To me, getting that much production from a rookie with mediocre QB play whilst missing 2 games is real good in my eyes. I'm excited to see how he does this year with another year of training camp, more experience from his QB and with more talent at wideout around him. Before the combine and pro day he was projected as a sure fire 1st round talent and luckily he fell to us in the 2nd. I expect big things from him in the next few years. Would love to see EJ-Sammy-Woods-Spiller and Brown grow into the leaders of our offense after Freddy retires.

Watching him last year you could just see that he is just scratching the surface of his potential. If he stayed for his senior year and came out in this draft he would easily be the 3rd ranked WR only behind our own Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans. I would definitely haven taken him over Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks and Kelvin Benjamin that's for damn sure.

 

[jBuds]

Why not? For a mid 2nd round pick he did damn good last year considering the circumstances. He had a rookie QB, an undrafted career backup and an undrafted god awful rookie QB as his QBs all season. He missed 2 games and put up 40-587-3 in 14 games. Not only that but he was the youngest WR in the entire NFL last season and one of the youngest players period. As a rookie wideout he was great. Look at some of the rookie WRs in the last few decades the Bills have had and what they did as rookies...

Robert Woods - 14 games, 40-587-3

Stevie - 11 games, 10-102-2
Moulds - 16 games, 20-279-2
Peerless- 16 games, 31-393-3
Andre - 16 games, 48-637-4
J. Reed - 16 games, 37-509-2

Those are 5 of the top 11 receiving leaders in Bills history that were drafted by the Bills. The only two who were more productive as rookies were Lee Evans and Jerry Butler. Woods even had a higher ypg then Andre did as a rookie. 2nd round picks aren't guaranteed to be anything but as a rookie Woods did damn good considering the circumstances. At the very least he is going to be a solid #2 WR, and most likely be a 1B. He broke records at USC including Keyshawn's records. I would consider him a better prospect then his former teammate who just got drafted in Marqise Lee and the thing is Woods is younger then Lee yet is going into his 2nd season. Woods is actually younger then 15 of the 32 first round picks in this years draft. To get a #2 WR and possibly a #1 WR in the mid 2nd is striking gold in my eyes. But the Bills in General have done well picking in the 2nd since 03. They have gotten Glenn, Woods, A Williams, Pos, Levitre, Kiko, Byrd, and Kelsay since 03. The only ones they whiffed on were Hardy and Torell Troup since 03.

If the Bills weren't confident in Woods I don't think they would have moved Stevie. A lot of WRs outside of the ones drafted high in the 1st struggle their first year or even longer. He had more receiving yards as a rookie then Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Justin Hunter, Aaron Dobson, Michael Floyd, AJ Jenkins, Brian Quick, Stephen Hill, Alshon Jeffrey, Ryan Broyles and Reuben Randle did and those were WRs all drafted in the 1st or 2nd round in '12 and '13. To me, getting that much production from a rookie with mediocre QB play whilst missing 2 games is real good in my eyes. I'm excited to see how he does this year with another year of training camp, more experience from his QB and with more talent at wideout around him. Before the combine and pro day he was projected as a sure fire 1st round talent and luckily he fell to us in the 2nd. I expect big things from him in the next few years. Would love to see EJ-Sammy-Woods-Spiller and Brown grow into the leaders of our offense after Freddy retires.

I just mean that "struck gold" is quite extreme, despite the fact that he had a pretty good debut season.

You strike gold when you get all pros at wr. That is tbd