Buffalo Bills–2014: 1-0 – WK2 vs Miami – Pegulas reach agreement to buy team

[joshjull]

Person A: "Wouldn't it be cool to have a downtown, water-front stadium?"

Person B: "There are many problems, both financial and logistical, with building a water-front stadium in Buffalo. For starters..."

*Person A back away slowly and strikes up a new conversation with someone who isn't insufferable

So I'm insufferable because I deal with reality?

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Of course if you put a stadium downtown you're gonna have traffic problems. But if a new stadium is gonna be built, putting it downtown is still preferential than out in OP/West Seneca/wherever else they want to put it. There's never gonna be a perfect solution when you're dealing with existing infrastructure and not planning a city from scratch.

The benefits of rejuvenating the land around the waterfront >> traffic problems.

 

[haseoke39]

Build the stadium, then fix any resulting traffic problems. Hearing a Buffalonian ***** about even hypothetical traffic just makes me laugh.

 

[comeonnow]

I don't disagree with that area needing something done with it but it has been stated both by the state and trusted environmental agencies that a large chunk of that site won't be able to be developed for a long time. The only area that is, isn't big enough for what a stadium would need. Even the proposed FedEx Shipping center is having to have a large chunk of studies done to make sure it'll work. And they are proposing to build on the "safe" part of the site.

And how do you feel routing of traffic wouldn't be an issue? With Route 5 being the only major road with access to there? Yeah you wouldn't have people parking at people's houses but that doesn't eliminate the hell that would be traffic in that area. Heck Route 5 can suck on game days now and that's only one of multiple routes out of the South Towns on game days.

With the 179 a mile down the road, Ridge, Lake, Tift...I don't disagree there would be some hurdles, but for sure less than downtown. I havent seen the impact studies regarding the site so I may have spoke to soon.

 

[JThorne]

Build the stadium, then fix any resulting traffic problems. Hearing a Buffalonian ***** about even hypothetical traffic just makes me laugh.

So very this. WNY has **** all for traffic problems. 8 times a year is cause to not put a stadium downtown? Get real. Go travel and experience other cities that deal with much worse traffic everywhere, everyday.

 

[EichHart]

Of course if you put a stadium downtown you're gonna have traffic problems. But if a new stadium is gonna be built, putting it downtown is still preferential than out in OP/West Seneca/wherever else they want to put it. There's never gonna be a perfect solution when you're dealing with existing infrastructure and not planning a city from scratch.

The benefits of rejuvenating the land around the waterfront >> traffic problems.

Yep.

 

[dma0034]

I'd like the stadium downtown or in NF (I live in Cheektowaga)

What I'd really love is it to be called Rich Stadium again.

 

[EichHart]

Build the stadium, then fix any resulting traffic problems. Hearing a Buffalonian ***** about even hypothetical traffic just makes me laugh.

Seriously. I think we have a great transit system. To compare...my uncle and aunt had to drive 10 miles in Pittsburgh during rush hour for there jobs and it took them 1-2 hours daily due to traffic. Just imagine NYC, LA, Chicago, etc....People in Buffalo don't even know what traffic is.

 

[joshjull]

There's logistical problems whenever you take on a half billion dollar project. But when you're investing that much money, you can find ways to make it work. If PEgula's willing to spend the dough (and yes that's a big if) he'll get a stadium wherever he damn well wants it

Couple of things

1) I wasn't aware Pegula was named King of WNY and in such a role he can put buildings anywhere he wants.

2) You're detached from reality if you think Pegula will be paying for a new stadium. If it happens, the bulk of the money will come from the State, County and NFL. Two of those entities have already started they don't see a need for a new stadium. That's because from an economic pov it makes little sense for either the State or County to spend the money they would need to build one.

3) When I said logistics I was referring to traffic issues at certain locations like the Outer Harbor.

4) When I referenced financial reality I was referencing the plan to put a section of the 190 under the city via a tunnel. In an environment where it will be very difficult to get funding for just a stadium. It will be impossible to get the money for a project like that plus a stadium. All for a ****ing football stadium no less. Its utter absurdity to expect that to happen.

 

[joshjull]

Of course if you put a stadium downtown you're gonna have traffic problems. But if a new stadium is gonna be built, putting it downtown is still preferential than out in OP/West Seneca/wherever else they want to put it. There's never gonna be a perfect solution when you're dealing with existing infrastructure and not planning a city from scratch.

The benefits of rejuvenating the land around the waterfront >> traffic problems.

A football stadium isn't going to rejuvenate the waterfront. They've already started doing a great job on that. I'm guessing you and few others commenting either aren't from here or rarely go down to our current waterfront and see all the great development of it going on. Building public space all can use is what started things in the right direction. Making it usable year round is happening right now on the next phase.

 

[Der Jaeger]

So very this. WNY has **** all for traffic problems. 8 times a year is cause to not put a stadium downtown? Get real. Go travel and experience other cities that deal with much worse traffic everywhere, everyday.

Agreed. After living in Washington DC, and now living near Dallas, Buffalo's traffic situation is relatively simple to solve. The biggest issue is the lake as a boundary for highways.

Some stuff of the top of my head:

- get rid of the skyway and widen route 5 north of the old steel plant grounds
- use some of the area east of route 5 (between the north end of the steel plant ground past the east side of Tift Farms) to build a connection between I-190 and route 5. The triangle traffic route would allow for folks to bypass
- a DC -like metro system would help
- a service road system, like in Texas along I-35, would create a built-in bypass while allowing those headed to the waterfront to get off and continue travel. It already exists between the small boat harbor and Tift Farm, but could be expanded

I'd much rather figure out Buffalo's traffic problem, than work on congestion along I-95 south of the beltway. Simply, the smaller population makes the problem so much easier.

 

[joshjull]

Build the stadium, then fix any resulting traffic problems. Hearing a Buffalonian ***** about even hypothetical traffic just makes me laugh.

So very this. WNY has **** all for traffic problems. 8 times a year is cause to not put a stadium downtown? Get real. Go travel and experience other cities that deal with much worse traffic everywhere, everyday.

Seriously. I think we have a great transit system. To compare...my uncle and aunt had to drive 10 miles in Pittsburgh during rush hour for there jobs and it took them 1-2 hours daily due to traffic. Just imagine NYC, LA, Chicago, etc....People in Buffalo don't even know what traffic is.

You guys are completely missing the point with your snarky comments

Much of what was mention was the issues with a stadium on the Outer Harbor. No one is talking about the daily volume of traffic. We're talking about the only access roads to the Outer Harbor and their inability to handle the traffic a Bills game would generate due to a few choke points that really can't be changed. Currently there are back ups along the stretch of the 190 near the Peace Bridge on onto RT5 and that's with the game in OP.

Downtown wouldn't have the same issues since it can be accessed from multiple directions.

 

[Der Jaeger]

You guys are completely missing the point with your snarky comments

Much of what was mention was the issues with a stadium on the Outer Harbor. No one is talking about the daily volume of traffic. We're talking about the only access roads to the Outer Harbor and their inability to handle the traffic a Bills game would generate due to a few choke points that really can't be changed. Currently there are back ups along the stretch of the 190 near the Peace Bridge on onto RT5 and that's with the game in OP.

Downtown wouldn't have the same issues since it can be accessed from multiple directions.

Perspective

I-95 south of the Beltway is backed up 42 miles every single weekday morning and evening.

DFW is nearly impenetrable when the Cowboys are playing a home game. There's more highway miles in DFW than Western New York.

The issue isn't the roads. It's road capacity compared to traffic volume. I was in Buffalo for two weeks last May, and was in morning and evening traffic. The volume isn't that great. It's not a big problem.

 

[joshjull]

Agreed. After living in Washington DC, and now living near Dallas, Buffalo's traffic situation is relatively simple to solve. The biggest issue is the lake as a boundary for highways.

Some stuff of the top of my head:

- get rid of the skyway and widen route 5 north of the old steel plant grounds
- use some of the area east of route 5 (between the north end of the steel plant ground past the east side of Tift Farms) to build a connection between I-190 and route 5. The triangle traffic route would allow for folks to bypass
- a DC -like metro system would help
- a service road system, like in Texas along I-35, would create a built-in bypass while allowing those headed to the waterfront to get off and continue travel. It already exists between the small boat harbor and Tift Farm, but could be expanded

I'd much rather figure out Buffalo's traffic problem, than work on congestion along I-95 south of the beltway. Simply, the smaller population makes the problem so much easier.

They just spent multi millions on the stretch of RT 5 and Furhman from around Tift St. North. It created better access to the water down there. It brought more people down there as well as some events. I highly doubt they will tear that work up to widen RT5. Nor would there be any reason to do so if Skyway access to downtown was removed.

A better Metro system would be great but isn't likely either since their wouldn't be the volume of use to make it sustainable. Though small tweaks/extensions would be a possibility.

 

[SackTastic]

Some of the worst traffic in California can be found in Silicon Valley.

Right where they just built Levi's Stadium.

 

[Der Jaeger]

They just spent multi millions on the stretch of RT 5 and Furhman from around Tift St. North. It created better access to the water down there. It brought more people down there as well as some events. I highly doubt they will tear that work up to widen RT5. Nor would there be any reason to do so if Skyway access to downtown was removed.

A better Metro system would be great but isn't likely either since their wouldn't be the volume of use to make it sustainable. Though small tweaks/extensions would be a possibility.

It does look nice, but the elevated highway with service roads will always limit throughput. It was a bad idea. Should have went wider.

Agree with an extension to the trains.

 

[joshjull]

Perspective

I-95 south of the Beltway is backed up 42 miles every single weekday morning and evening.

DFW is nearly impenetrable when the Cowboys are playing a home game. There's more highway miles in DFW than Western New York.

The issue isn't the roads. It's road capacity compared to traffic volume. I was in Buffalo for two weeks last May, and was in morning and evening traffic. The volume isn't that great. It's not a big problem.

Again missing the point. Its not about the daily volume of traffic.

 

[joshjull]

It does look nice, but the elevated highway with service roads will always limit throughput. It was a bad idea. Should have went wider.

Agree with an extension to the trains.

How could it have gone wider when there is no room to do so? And what would it matter in relation to a Bills stadium downtown or on the Outer Harbor with your planned removal of the Skyway (which I would like to see)?

 

[missingmika]

Perspective

I-95 south of the Beltway is backed up 42 miles every single weekday morning and evening.

DFW is nearly impenetrable when the Cowboys are playing a home game. There's more highway miles in DFW than Western New York.

The issue isn't the roads. It's road capacity compared to traffic volume. I was in Buffalo for two weeks last May, and was in morning and evening traffic. The volume isn't that great. It's not a big problem.

I do the commute now from Fredericksburg to DC (another thing Buffalo doesnt have is $2,000+ one bedroom apartments). Hour and 15 mins with no traffic. Normally 2 hours. As bad as 4 hours.

Buffalo traffic is a joke....even making it marginally worse is still not like any other city.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Again missing the point. Its not about the daily volume of traffic.

Access roads to the outer harbor vice volume of traffic are related.

 

[Der Jaeger]

How could it have gone wider when there is no room to do so? And what would it matter in relation to a Bills stadium downtown or on the Outer Harbor with your planned removal of the Skyway (which I would like to see)?

Yes there is. There's far to much room given to the service roads. Look at I-35 between DFW and Austin, particularly near Waco, if you want to see it properly done in compacted space.

 

[haseoke39]

You guys are completely missing the point with your snarky comments

Much of what was mention was the issues with a stadium on the Outer Harbor. No one is talking about the daily volume of traffic. We're talking about the only access roads to the Outer Harbor and their inability to handle the traffic a Bills game would generate due to a few choke points that really can't be changed. Currently there are back ups along the stretch of the 190 near the Peace Bridge on onto RT5 and that's with the game in OP.

Downtown wouldn't have the same issues since it can be accessed from multiple directions.

If the problem is only about the traffic on game days, then it's even less worth changing the decision over. Let Buffalo, for once in a ******* century, actually have a traffic problem worth solving and then talk to me about what needs done to fix it. Could be as simple as more robust public transit to and from the area on game days.

 

[cybresabre]

So very this. WNY has **** all for traffic problems. 8 times a year is cause to not put a stadium downtown? Get real. Go travel and experience other cities that deal with much worse traffic everywhere, everyday.

You're forgetting about home field advantage...

 

[zenthusiast]

with his investment and capital Pegula realistically will be able to do almost whatever he wants without city interference

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

with his investment and capital Pegula realistically will be able to do almost whatever he wants without city interference

Agreed. Even in Buffalo with our utterly useless and incompetent leaders/politicians, they are not going to hinder a multi billionaire from spending hundreds of millions in our region. Pegula is a god send, a multi billionaire spending hundreds of millions in a dying city where he is doing everything he can to bring it back to our 1950's relevance. It's obvious Pegula is building an empire located in Downtown Buffalo. Sabres and Bandits in FNC. Harbor center right next door. They need to built a multi use stadium near downtown and do whatever it takes. Make it a convertible dome stadium so it can be multi use and start bringing back the large concerts that the Ralph used to bring along with other indoor events/conventions. Pegula should even buy HSBC tower/1 Seneca Center, and make it the home of his Buffalo sports holdings.


I love the fact that the Pegula family has 5 young kids who love the area and that they are absolute sports nuts. They are the polar opposite of the Wilson family where for the last 20 years of Ralph's life we were told the family had no interest in keeping the team once Ralph passed and that they would likely move to Toronto or LA. The place will be electric tomorrow. If Jim is at the game and they show him on the big screen right after showing Pegula the place will be off the ****ing walls