Confirmed Trade: [BUF/NYI] Johnny Boychuk for future considerations

[SwedishFire]

It's an LTIRetirement contract. It brings effectively no trouble for the Isles and their cap. It's when you trade a healthy player who happens to be crazy overpaid (like Ladd) when you're forced to trade picks to get rid of them.

But its real dollars involved

 

[PK Cronin]

The same could be said then for LTIR contracts for players who are clearly retired and never playing again but not officially announcing it to keep their team below the cap. Leaving the player on LTIR and them just holding off on sending their official retirement letter to the NHL would also be just as bad would it not?

Players don't not retire to help their team stay under the cap, they don't retire because they still want to be paid.

 

[member 334057]

Players don't not retire to help their team stay under the cap, they don't retire because they still want to be paid.

Yet it's still cap circumvention.

 

[Mr Positive]

The Eichel trade was just a domino that led to this one

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Oh Boy.

This guy "future considerations" sure gets traded a lot.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yet it's still cap circumvention.

Are they supposed to sign some free agent leftover huge dollars to get back over the floor?

The point of the floor is to keep player spending high. It's a concession to the players. The money that Buffalo doesnt spend goes back to all players through esgrow. I doubt they'd mind that

 

[Throttle]

Yet it's still cap circumvention.

Yet, both the NHL and NHLPA - the signers to the CBA that covers the cap (and re-upped it w/o revision to this situation) - do not see it that way. They have already established situations that are considered circumvention. This situation is not one of them, no matter whether a fan affirmatively thinks it is.

 

[PK Cronin]

Yet it's still cap circumvention.

No, not really. Boychuk agreed to terms with the Islanders on a reasonable deal (it wasn't like what was attempted with the Kovalchuk situation). He was expected to play for all of those years and there was little reason to think he wouldn't. Boychuk then suffered a serious injury to his eye that sidelined him and effectively ended his career. He shouldn't lose out on his contract because he was injured on the job. LTIR is a good solution to this scenario.

What could be viewed as cap circumvention is the trading for a player like Boychuk because all parties know he'll never play again and the team acquiring him has no intention of ever playing him, unlike the team that signed him to the deal originally.

I haven't done enough reading about it because I don't care that much but the Hossa situation could also be viewed as cap circumvention, when a player acquires a mysterious (fake) injury to allow them to go on LTIR. Very difficult to prove though.

If you don't allow players with career ending injuries to go on LTIR, what's the solution? They get paid out and the cap comes off completely? Teams would likely prefer that I'd think. Teams getting stuck with that cap hit as if the player was playing doesn't seem right either and would really limit the amount of years teams would be willing to sign players to.

 

[member 334057]

Are they supposed to sign some free agent leftover huge dollars to get back over the floor?

The point of the floor is to keep player spending high. It's a concession to the players. The money that Buffalo doesnt spend goes back to all players through esgrow

My point was that using a player who has not retired but is on LTIR to get above the cap floor is not much different from using the same scenario to stay below it by not having the recoup penalty. Either way they are still being paid. I have no issue with the Sabres using it to their advantage right now just as i have no issue with other teams using LTIR to their advantage in a different manner to remain below the ceiling. My point was that if someone was going to complain about one and not the other which the original post I was replying to seemed to be doing they need to accept that both are misusage.

 

[member 334057]

If you don't allow players with career ending injuries to go on LTIR, what's the solution? They get paid out and the cap comes off completely? Teams would likely prefer that I'd think.

I think if a player is forced to retire due to injury they absolutely should be able to go on LTIR and be paid, and yes they should probably also not count against a teams cap hit in that situation. The problem is and always will be teams will find a way to circumvent the rules or the intent.

If i had to guess the main reason why they can't do that would likely be insurance related. I believe insurance pays out a good chunk of the injured players salary on LTIR, if they were to retire I don't know that insurance would still cover it.

 

[TheNumber4]

Adams is a bad GM. Feel bad for Sabres fans. This won’t be the guy to lead you out of the dumps.

 

[Mr Positive]

My point was that using a player who has not retired but is on LTIR to get above the cap floor is not much different from using the same scenario to stay below it by not having the recoup penalty. Either way they are still being paid. I have no issue with the Sabres using it to their advantage right now just as i have no issue with other teams using LTIR to their advantage in a different manner to remain below the ceiling. My point was that if someone was going to complain about one and not the other which the original post I was replying to seemed to be doing they need to accept that both are misusage.

Imo LTIR just doesnt fit with the cap so you have to allow rule bending

You have a point about the awkwardness around "LTIRetirement". It seems some teams are just really good at getting players on board or maybe it's just luck. You have a situation like Lupul with the Leafs where he posts on social media that he is fit and ready to go but they still have him on LTIR after.

There is some wiggle room. Like with Hossa, he could play, but with a lot of discomfort. That's where it really is just the players choice whether hes on LTIR or not, and it's about quality of life during or after their playing days. Hossa simply didnt feel it was worth playing in the regular season but would tough it out for playoffs

 

[hamzarocks]

Imo LTIR just doesnt fit with the cap so you have to allow rule bending

You have a point about the awkwardness around "LTIRetirement". It seems some teams are just really good at getting players on board or maybe it's just luck. You have a situation like Lupul with the Leafs where he posts on social media that he is fit and ready to go but they still have him on LTIR after.

There is some wiggle room. Like with Hossa, he could play, but with a lot of discomfort. That's where it really is just the players choice whether hes on LTIR or not, and it's about quality of life during or after their playing days. Hossa simply didnt feel it was worth playing in the regular season but would tough it out for playoffs

For the case of lupul he lied about being healthy and apologized afterwards

He failed his physical with both the leafs personal doctors as well as one with the NHL's doctors. Lupul was just bitter he couldn't keep playing

Leafs' Joffrey Lupul fails second medical


Joffrey Lupul fails independent medical test - NHL Rumors - NHLTradeRumors.Me

 

[SundherDome]

Adams is a bad GM. Feel bad for Sabres fans. This won’t be the guy to lead you out of the dumps.

Lol wut

 

[Holls Blackmail]

Hasn't even been 8hrs and the Sabres make an even bigger blockbuster

Better return, too.

 

[danteipp]

Kevin Adams is a really really really really bad GM. He could easy squeezed out a 2nd or 3rd pick. But here comws Lou with the unbelivable win. One summer and he cleans out Ladd, boychuk, Eberles contract. Wow.

Had Adams, or another GM, offered to take the Boychuk contract last year, they might have gotten a second or third+. But why would the Isles make such a move now?

Boychuk has already received his last two signing bonus payments, the bulk of his remaining money, presumably from the Isles and whatever insurance covered. He only has $1.25 million remaining on his salary this season, with insurance covering perhaps as much as 80% of that, leaving around $250,000 due (maybe a bit more, but it is still a de minimis amount). It is nothing in terms of real money.

Meanwhile the Isles had their payroll inline for the season and around $2.2 million available in LTIR space for an add at the deadline. If they were going to attach an extra second rounder to a deal, they would probably give it to the team they are trading with for reinforcements, and ask them to retain and/or take back Uncle Leo or Hickey to offset any remaining salary cap imbalances.

This is a deal that helps both teams. The Isles get off LTIR, to accrue more space, and the Sabres can now essentially trade whoever they want, at the pittance of paying out maybe as low as $200,000 in real money. Adams just saved his owners a boatload of money, if they have a firesale, by not having to take on salary in return.

The Boychuk contract has significant value and there aren't many contracts like it available in trade. Lou knows it and sold accordingly.

Adams was smart not to haggle and potentially cost his owners a LOT of real money down the line, by potentially having to retain or take back significant salary. He had little leverage, since this is the best outcome for him and potentially making more trades, plus at least staying in the good graces of his employers.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Had Adams, or another GM, offered to take the Boychuk contract last year, they might have gotten a second or third+. But why would the Isles make such a move now?

Boychuk has already received his last two signing bonus payments, the bulk of his remaining money, presumably from the Isles and whatever insurance covered. He only has $1.25 million remaining on his salary this season, with insurance covering perhaps as much as 80% of that, leaving around $250,000 due (maybe a bit more, but it is still a de minimis amount). It is nothing in terms of real money.

Meanwhile the Isles had their payroll inline for the season and around $2.2 million available in LTIR space for an add at the deadline. If they were going to attach an extra second rounder to a deal, they would probably give it to the team they are trading with for reinforcements, and ask them to retain and/or take back Uncle Leo or Hickey to offset any remaining salary cap imbalances.

This is a deal that helps both teams. The Isles get off LTIR, to accrue more space, and the Sabres can now essentially trade whoever they want, at the pittance of paying out maybe as low as $200,000 in real money. Adams just saved his owners a boatload of money, if they have a firesale, by not having to take on salary in return.

The Boychuk contract has significant value and there aren't many contracts like it available in trade. Lou knows it and sold accordingly.

Adams was smart not to haggle and potentially cost his owners a LOT of real money down the line, by potentially having to retain or take back significant salary. He had little leverage, since this is the best outcome for him and potentially making more trades, plus at least staying in the good graces of his employers.

Good post. I mentioned this in another thread, but Adams and Lou were part of an advisory group of NHL GM's that selected Team USA for the 2021 World Championships. They know each other. It's about building networks. GM's help each other out, it's not a biggie, but maybe down the line they will work on something bigger with this deal. You scratch my back, I will scratch yours. Isles could have kept Boychuck on LTIR, but Sabres also needed help to get some cushion to get higher on the cap floor. I think they helped each other out. And in the process Adams and Lou may be making more deals in the future. This is what good GM's do.

 

[Hostile Offer]

But its real dollars involved

Not really if the contract is fully insured.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Not really if the contract is fully insured.

It’s 60% insured.

 

[Marlo Stanfield]

But its real dollars involved

Not really if the contract is fully insured.

It’s 60% insured.

60% of 1.1m (Johnny Boychuk) to cover 6m of the cap floor is fine business by Buffalo.

 

[hunter7isles]

Arizona says thanks to the Islanders for the 2nd round pick for Andrew Ladd. Haha. He’s an Alternate captain and is playing every game. LOL. Only in Arizona, man.

You are extremely welcome. He is doing a great job at helping your team tank. Win-win.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Now he can retire a Saber, every kid’s dream

 

[joshjull]

Kevin Adams is a really really really really bad GM. He could easy squeezed out a 2nd or 3rd pick. But here comws Lou with the unbelivable win. One summer and he cleans out Ladd, boychuk, Eberles contract. Wow.

No he couldn’t have. Adams wasn’t the one with leverage, Lou was. The Sabres badly needed to add cap space so they could get injured guys back in the lineup.

Krebs to the minors after the Eichel trade would have left the Sabres only about 12k over the lower limit. Once Mittelstadt returns (today or tomorrow), Murray gets sent down. Then Murray’s 775k cap hit goes away and the Sabres are 700k+ under the lower limit and not compliant with the cap. They also have Jokiharju returning in a few weeks and would lose the cap hit of his replacement.


Adding the 6mil cap hit from Boychuk allows our injured guys to return and gives flexibility for trades.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

1.) Buffalo was very close to the cap floor, this gives them some wiggle room if they want to sell more guys and/or make roster moves with Rochester.
2.) NYI can now accrue daily cap space, they were previously over the cap but compliant due to LTIR. They are now under the cap. This will be important for them at the deadline.

Great post!

 

[Stuzchuk]

He retired a year ago...

wrong... he LTIRed a year ago