Confirmed Trade: [BUF/EDM] Ryan McLeod and Tyler Tullio for Matt Savoie

[KrakenSabresMike]

I personally think Savoie's floor is that of a good 2nd line winger. The sky is the limit with his ceiling.

Most projections I see of him are still pretty bullish on his top line winger upside.

From Edmonton's side, McLeod was looking like he'd slot in as our 4C this year behind McDavid, Drai, and Henrique. LW is also jammed with RNH, Holloway, and Skinner.

That’s sort of disingenuous- he hasn’t played in the nhl yet and is a smaller guy - his floor is not making it at all bc he can’t fight through bigger stronger players. He’s not a big gritty guy that at minimum is a 4th liner or a Zach benson type who even if the offense didn’t come can still play a very good defensive game.

His most likely outcome is a modern day Tyler ennis

Also who cares that McLeod is the 4th or 5th best center on a team with 5-6 good centers 3 of which are top 3 nhl picks and 2 are top 5 in the whole league…that’s like saying draisalt is a 2c ( he is obviously a 1c but is pushed fiem by McDavid existing )

it may be true but then you can’t gloat over how great savioe is when he is the same to the Sabres predict pool. He was NOT our top prospect despite what some of the national Canadian talking heads might say. Each player was pushed down on their respective team and has more value to the one they got sent to

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I personally think Savoie's floor is that of a good 2nd line winger. The sky is the limit with his ceiling.

Most projections I see of him are still pretty bullish on his top line winger upside.

From Edmonton's side, McLeod was looking like he'd slot in as our 4C this year behind McDavid, Drai, and Henrique. LW is also jammed with RNH, Holloway, and Skinner.

You think that's his floor?

 

[CowbellConray]

That’s sort of disingenuous- he hasn’t played in the nhl yet and is a smaller guy - his floor is not making it at all bc he can’t fight through bigger stronger players. He’s not a big gritty guy that at minimum is a 4th liner or a Zach benson type who even if the offense didn’t come can still play a very good defensive game.

His most likely outcome is a modern day Tyler ennis

I dont think Ennis ever had the speed or two way tenacity of Savoie. I do believe Tyler was more creative however.

If I had to comp Savoie, If he adds some more grit I could see a Yanni Gourde/Brandon Hagel type player. I think Savoie is a middle six winger most likely, with a 15% bust change and 15% top line chance.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That’s sort of disingenuous- he hasn’t played in the nhl yet and is a smaller guy - his floor is not making it at all bc he can’t fight through bigger stronger players. He’s not a big gritty guy that at minimum is a 4th liner or a Zach benson type who even if the offense didn’t come can still play a very good defensive game.

His most likely outcome is a modern day Tyler ennis

Savoie has 20lbs on Ennis already and is way feistier than Ennis ever was in my viewings. I don't think fighting through players will be a problem.

He's going to be riding shotgun with some pretty damn good centers in Edmonton if he makes the team this year. They'll help him.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

I'd rather have Byram than Middlestadt. Feels like a net win for the Sabres for next season with Savoie likely getting AHL time.

Never thought I would see 65 pages for a Ryan McLeod trade thread, ha ha.

I'm prefer Mitts.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

I dont think Ennis ever had the speed or two way tenacity of Savoie. I do believe Tyler was more creative however.

If I had to comp Savoie, If he adds some more grit I could see a Yanni Gourde/Brandon Hagel type player. I think Savoie is a middle six winger most likely, with a 15% bust change and 15% top line chance.

I agree with your percentages BUT - we can’t say anything about Savoie vs men so how do we know he is more tenacious?
Ennis was an nhl player so we know exactly what he was and he was pretty darn fast relative to the the average player. Doubg they have any accurate player tracking speed data from back then that would prove this point or not… But I did watch basically every Sabres game from 1985 to present.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You think that's his floor?

Yep, I do. I watch a lot of WHL. His talent level is insane.

Frankly a 2nd liner would be disappointing with his wheels, hands, and offensive IQ.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Savoie has 20lbs on Ennis already and is way feistier than Ennis ever was in my viewings. I don't think fighting through players will be a problem.

He's going to be riding shotgun with some pretty damn good centers in Edmonton if he makes the team this year. They'll help him.

I’m not sure I’d want him riding shotgun on your top 2 line this year if your goal Is winning the Stanley cup. I’d think you’d want a better proven player there if that’s your goal. This is the kind of inflated thinking that sort of drives a Sabres fans mad at the over hype. If the Oilers are doing it right, he’s playing the whole year in Bakersfield…

Our goal is just to make the damn playoffs and we didn’t want him there…

 

[CowbellConray]

I agree with your percentages BUT - we can’t say anything about Savoie vs men so how do we know he is more tenacious?
Ennis was an nhl player so we know exactly what he was and he was pretty darn fast relative to the the average player. Doubg they have any accurate player tracking speed data from back then that would prove this point or not… But I did watch basically every Sabres game from 1985 to present.

I also have watched Sabres games since 2005, and Ennis was more of an agile skater than the straight line speed Savoie shows. Ennis had quick feet, but not necessarily fast speed as a result. Just my 2 cents

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Yep, I do. I watch a lot of WHL. His talent level is insane.

Frankly a 2nd liner would be disappointing with his wheels, hands, and offensive IQ.

He was out scored by benson on the same team and he was 1.5 years younger - what does that make bensons floor the hall of fame?

He should like above and beyond as a one of the older 20 yo players in the whl - and he wasn’t even the best player on moosejaw, had some level of underperformance in the playoffs and memorial cup, and was a no-show at the world juniors against his Peers

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I’m not sure I’d want him riding shotgun on your too 2 line this year if your goal
Is winning the Stanley cup. I’d think you’d want a better proven player there if that’s your goal

Our goal is just to make the damn playoffs and we didn’t want him there…

That's what the preseason is for.

Personally the line I'd put together is a 3rd line of RNH/Henrique/Savoie or Holloway/Henrique/Savoie. They don't need to be a shutdown line, they just need take advantage of other bottom sixes and I think they can do that.

We absolutely have a top 9 RW spot open.

I think the bold is disingenuous. You had a surplus of smallish scoring wingers and lacked C's. McLeod is a good player. He's very likely a 30 point guy for his career though.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

He was out scored by benson on the same team and he was 1.5 years younger - what does that make bensons floor the hall of fame?

He should like above and beyond as a one of the older 20 yo players in the whl - and he wasn’t even the best player on moosejaw, had some level of underperformance in the playoffs and memorial cup, and was a no-show at the world juniors against his Peers

I can tell you were watching on the scoresheet.

Savoie mopped the floor with Benson in the 2022-23 playoffs. At a certain point, racking up regular season points isn't exciting anymore.

Benson is very good, but Savoie's skating is several levels above his and I think will be a much better fit on a rush team like Edmonton.

There's also positional considerations. Edmonton needs right shots and players that can play RW.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

That's what the preseason is for.

Personally the line I'd put together is a 3rd line of RNH/Henrique/Savoie or Holloway/Henrique/Savoie. They don't need to be a shutdown line, they just need take advantage of other bottom sixes and I think they can do that.

We absolutely have a top 9 RW spot open.

I think the bold is disingenuous. You had a surplus of smallish scoring wingers and lacked C's. McLeod is a good player. He's very likely a 30 point guy for his career though.

It’s not though bc Kulich ( and maybe Rosen d/t experience) is ahead of him and was 1st for that spot of available

Plus, Benson is younger than he is… And we don’t want that many young folks on top spots on our team when we’re trying to make the playoffs for the first time in forever. We can’t be taking chances like that and more things…

 

[LTIR]

Oilers just need Savoie to be J.Skinner's replacement in 2 yrs.

2nd or 3rd line winger is all we need him to be assuming E.Kane > Skinner

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

I can tell you were watching on the scoresheet.

Savoie mopped the floor with Benson in the 2022-23 playoffs. At a certain point, racking up regular season points isn't exciting anymore.

Benson is very good, but Savoie's skating is several levels above his and I think will be a much better fit on a rush team like Edmonton.

There's also positional considerations. Edmonton needs right shots and players that can play RW.

Well, since I watched those playoffs in person here in Seattle… Maybe unless you were there too you don’t know what you’re talking about?

Skating isn’t everything… Or else why did you give up McLeod?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Well, since I watched those playoffs in person here in Seattle… Maybe unless you were there too you don’t know what you’re talking about?

Skating isn’t everything… Or else why did you give up McLeod?

We're talking about two different playoffs. Savoie was better than Benson in 22-23 and it's not even remotely up for debate.

This year Savoie had a tough memorial cup, that's for sure. He was also recovering from injuries sustained playing for a franchise infamously awful for treating injuries.

We gave up McLeod because the value was excellent, he didn't have a good playoffs (sound familiar?) and he was slotting in as our 4C.

 

[LTIR]

It’s not though bc Kulich ( and maybe Rosen d/t experience) is ahead of him and was 1st for that spot of available

Plus, Benson is younger than he is… And we don’t want that many young folks on top spots on our team when we’re trying to make the playoffs for the first time in forever. We can’t be taking chances like that and more things…

No denying that BUF had their reasons for making this trade.. it just doesn't make Savoie a bust all of a sudden.
Same with Oil fans.. we don't need to enforce that McLeod is a 4th line scrub and how big of a win this is for Oilers.
BUF needed a player like R.McLeod and got him .. best of luck to both players

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

No denying that BUF had their reasons for making this trade.. it just doesn't make Savoie a bust all of a sudden.
Same with Oil fans.. we don't need to enforce that McLeod is a 4th line scrub and how big of a win this is for Oilers.
BUF needed a player like R.McLeod and got him .. best of luck to both players

100% agree - not saying that Savoie is a bust in the least but the anointing of him being a first line player can’t miss superstar is just way over the top from reality is.

 

[5 14 6 1]

He was out scored by benson on the same team and he was 1.5 years younger - what does that make bensons floor the hall of fame?

He should like above and beyond as a one of the older 20 yo players in the whl - and he wasn’t even the best player on moosejaw, had some level of underperformance in the playoffs and memorial cup, and was a no-show at the world juniors against his Peers

Why do you have to attempt to denigrate the player because your team moved on from him? Was he not coming off shoulder injury at WJC?

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Why do you have to attempt to denigrate the player because your team moved on from him?

It’s not denigrating my friend - it’s tempering the overhype that is out there. If I was in the Oilers position of a glut of centers I’d be thrilled to get a Savoie level lottery ticket if i had a replacement or 2 for McLeod already on my team.

But holy over hype about this prospect is …that not denigrating. He’s not guaranteed to be anything…and there are warts there like most not top 3 drafted prospects. Reality is not denigrating someone.


I am also really, not sure how tempering expectations on the other end of this is any different than what Oilers fans are saying about McLeod?

 

[5 14 6 1]

It’s not denigrating my friend - it’s tempering the overhype that is out there. If I was in the Oilers position of a glut of centers I’d be thrilled to get a Savoie level lottery ticket if i had a replacement or 2 for McLeod already on my team.

But holy over hype about this prospect is …that not denigrating. He’s not guaranteed to be anything…and there are warts there like most not top 3 drafted prospects. Reality is not denigrating someone.


I am also really, not sure how tempering expectations on the other end of this is any different than what Oilers fans are saying about McLeod?

He was a 9th overall pick and hasnt done anything to show that he is not worthy of that slot since. Why is your job to temper expectation? Of course there are fans who dislike McLeods game, he has a legitimate body of work in the NHL and can be talked about as such. He has positives and negatives as most do. Both have limitations in different ways.

Oilers have their top 3Cs locked in for at least the next two seasons (McDavid, Draisaitl, Henrique) and just drafted a prospect in Sam O'Reilly who projects to be a very good 3LC in a few years. It's a good bet by Edmonton, especially when you factor in the salary cap. To have a high skill player on a cheap deal to pair with one of McDrai at some point in the next 2 seasons is a massive win for EDM.

Both teams got what they needed here.

 

[TageGod]

100% agree - not saying that Savoie is a bust in the least but the anointing of him being a first line player can’t miss superstar is just way over the top from reality is.

No one is anointing him, but his potential is still top line winger. He was stagnating there, and the organization dicked him around this year before sending him back. The moment they drafted Benson Savoie was expendable and the Sabres treated him like that.

Now he can compete for a spot that he can actually earn on his merit and not by organization preferences.

 

[Treb]

Yep, I do. I watch a lot of WHL. His talent level is insane.

Frankly a 2nd liner would be disappointing with his wheels, hands, and offensive IQ.

His floor is AHL top6 guy. He's not a lock for the NHL.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

His floor is AHL top6 guy. He's not a lock for the NHL.

based on your say so?

personally, I think his floor is 2nd liner. If you think differently, that's up to you, but your word isn't gospel.

This is extra funny because Habs fans talk about their prospects like every single one is going to pan out and hit their ceiling, never mind their floor.

 

[voxel]

I like Clouder. He's baby Nuge. I watched him grow in the AHL from a player who was allergic to contact to an elite AHL center with Benson and Marody - a line that could put up points at will.

I think his skill is underrated. He at worst is another Cogliano or Pitlick. I think he needs to go to a team to allow him to grow further. Oilers don't have top-6 room for him.