Confirmed Trade: [BUF/EDM] Ryan McLeod and Tyler Tullio for Matt Savoie

[TommyDangles]

Because judging by your history, I really doubt that you watched every Moose Jaw playoff game.

I'm not sure exactly why you're talking in here like you're the smartest dude on these boards, but thanks tips. I'm definitely going to be discouraged on Savoie regardless of what anyone else says, because of Tommy's evaluation on the player.

you were awfully quiet on the player, until rhtrade e happened, of course

What does that even mean? I'm a Sabres fan. It's weird that I watch Sabres prospects, especially a former 1st rounder?

You have no issue giving your take on McLeod, but someone can't do the same for Savoie? My evaluation of him is not unique. There are plenty of others fans who have said the same things long before this trade. He was a polarizing prospect among Sabres fans. Some loved him. Some had a ton of concerns regarding how his game would translate to the NHL.

I don't post much on these boards to begin with. Even most of my posts have nothing to do with the Sabres. I just watch a lot of hockey. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

[McFlyingV]

Taking all the emotions out of these posts….

The Oilers and Sabres are in two completely different franchise stages.

The Oilers were in a position where they need players who are more likely to be playoff competitors while at the same time being Cap compliant. Shedding Cap was a major factor in this deal. The Oilers in their current phase will have a much easier time attracting the strong 4C/3W than most teams.

The Sabres are filled with strong prospects but need to make the jump into the playoffs… it’s been far too long.

McLeod is what he is…
• an NHL PLAYER
• a very good skater
• a very good PKer
• slightly above average defensively
• decent on zone exits
• less than spectacular on zone entries
• a perimeter player
• is not physical in anyway, avoids physicality at every opportunity
• he will be frustrating in the fact that, with his superior skating ability, he will always leave the fan wanting/expecting more
• below average finishing
• a bonafide 4C or 3W on a Cup contender or a 3C on a fringe playoff team
• average face off guy - let’s not forget that winning face offs is as much, or maybe even more, of a team skill than a center skill in todays NHL.

Savoie is still an unknown…
• a blue chip PROSPECT
• is still in a development stage
• is small compared to the average NHLer (stop arguing about the specifics, he is small)
• is highly skilled with the puck
• has an above average shot
• average skater
• injury prone
• is not physical
• not bottom 6 material, has to make it as a top 6
• average defensively, at best

Savoie has the higher ceiling but is still magic beans at this point. MacLeod is a bonafide NHLer who could even be a bonafide decent 3C for a Cup contender with a bit more experience. Savoie will have a better chance at succeeding in the NHL with the Oilers as a 2W due to their expected Cs.

All in all I think this trade slightly favors the Oilers but not as bad as some might think.

I would also like to remind Oiler fans that we were in the Sabres unenviable position of missing the playoffs multiple years in succession without nearly as strong of a prospect pool. I applaud the Sabres for making a deal to better their team today and try to get their team over the hump. Dealing a prospect, even possibly a bit of an overpayment to a team in the other Conference and not one you see as your future competition was not a terrible move.

Savoie is far better than an average skater, and he doesn't shy away from contact or going to the middle ice. Everything else is pretty spot on in your post.

 

[McFlyingV]

No I'm telling a Red Wings fan who brought up Rasmussen that he has no clue what he's talking about. Someone who implied McLeod only had 30 points because of Drai even though he was on pace for 30ish points w/ Perry & Foegele the year before. If McLeod was on Drai's wing for an entire season he'd have much more than 30 points like another Oilers fan pointed out.

Might actually want to read the comment I'm replying to.

Small correction. He paced 30 points last year with Foegele and a combination of Puljujarvi, Holloway, Janmark, Ryan, Yamamoto, Kostin, you name it. He was only really consistently with Foegele. Perry wasn't on the team.

 

[TommyDangles]

You just stated you watched every Warriors playoff game, I have my doubts based on your evaluation.

I also have my doubts that you would spend all that time tuning in watching Matthew Savoie considering how you feel about him as a player, apparently.

You've basically spent this entire thread talking about how s*** he is and how he's going to be a bust, but yet you still decided to watch 20 Moose Jaws Warriors playoff games?

Yes I watched every Warriors playoff game this year because Savoie was on the team. I also watched every Americans game to see Kulich/Rosen/Levi. So did quite a few people on these boards. You can ask them the same questions. I will likely try to watch all of Konsta's games this year as well.

I've given my take on him as a prospect. How his game has developed since he's been drafted. He was someone I was high on, but soured on him this last year. I've watched him in juniors, WJC, developmental camp, and during prospect scrimmages. He was someone I was hoping would make the roster last season.

I have never said that he was shit or that he going to be a bust. That's just something you made up. I said that he was a good prospect, but his value had dropped. Something that other NHL people have also said like Pronman. He certainly has issues like his size, injury concerns, and some of his recent performances as well.

If you don't want someone's honest take on a prospect maybe just stick to your team board

 

[TageGod]

Yes I watched every Warriors playoff game this year because Savoie was on the team. I also watched every Americans game to see Kulich/Rosen/Levi. So did quite a few people on these boards. You can ask them the same questions. I will likely try to watch all of Konsta's games this year as well.

I've given my take on him as a prospect. How his game has developed since he's been drafted. He was someone I was high on, but soured on him this last year. I've watched him in juniors, WJC, developmental camp, and during prospect scrimmages. He was someone I was hoping would make the roster last season.

I have never said that he was shit or that he going to be a bust. That's just something you made up. I said that he was a good prospect, but his value had dropped. Something that other NHL people have also said like Pronman. He certainly has issues like his size, injury concerns, and some of his recent performances as well.

If you don't want someone's honest take on a prospect maybe just stick to your team board

What world did he have a poor performance anywhere? Lol

 

[Coffey]

I won't lie.. I thought lander was going to be the absolute bomb for us!

Oh didn't we all lol

 

[TommyDangles]

What world did he have a poor performance anywhere? Lol

His WJC was poor. His playoff performance was underwhelming.

 

[Sabres]

Wasn't a huge Savoie fan, I don't see the super high ceiling. I do really like McLeod.

In saying that I still don't understand the trade, we definitely overpaid. I think some of the reactions on here and twitter are a bit overboard. I never considered Savoie a "blue chipper" or whatever you want to categorize it as. I think he has 2nd line upside, I don't see a 1st liner. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[DJN21]

Sabres got bent on value alone.

McLeod is a decent player.

The end

 

[tsujimoto74]

Dude you've literally been replying to all my posts, don't get it twisted.

I'm not sure why you would reference Pronman, when there's still way more guys out there that do this for a living that had Savoie as the Sabres top prospect

Because the Pronman ranking being referenced was based on polling NHL execs. None of the people he talked to had Savoie as the Sabres top prospect. I think the highest was third or fourth. He’s still good. He’s obviously Edmonton’s best prospect. Some people are just getting carried away with it.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

We can all complain and say this was a bad trade, but at the end of the day there were many factors.

Savoie was upset he didn't make the Sabres and that his teammate Zach Benson did who he felt was as good as him at the WHL level. But not just that, he's from Edmonton and his brother is also with the Oilers.

 

[zar]

We can all complain and say this was a bad trade, but at the end of the day there were many factors.

Savoie was upset he didn't make the Sabres and that his teammate Zach Benson did who he felt was as good as him at the WHL level. But not just that, he's from Edmonton and his brother is also with the Oilers.

His brother is no longer with the Oilers… was not offered a contract (so far).

 

[TommyDangles]

Dude you've literally been replying to all my posts, don't get it twisted.

I'm not sure why you would reference Pronman, when there's still way more guys out there that do this for a living that had Savoie as the Sabres top prospect

I think that's how this site works. You reply to my comment & I reply back. Feel free to stop anytime.

Because he very recently surveyed NHL teams on how they valued certain prospects? We aren't talking about some guy's ranking of prospects. We're talking about how NHL teams value these prospects. Pronman wrote, "I don't think Savoie's trade value is all that high in the NHL based on my survey of teams."

 

[HockeyWooot]

Right idea bad execution for the Sabres imo.

Maybe they’re not that high on Savoie, AND the pro scouting think McLeod has more to give and could be a good add?

 

[Ninety7]

Sabres got bent on value alone.

McLeod is a decent player.

The end

This is the correct answer

 

[ManofSteel55]

Since were doing hot takes let me chime in: Atleast McLeod will have a NHL career.

It is absolutely possible that Savoie never makes it. I think the Oilers don't expect it, but it is logical to come to the conclusion that Buffalo has lost some love for him. That doesn't change that it was a great trade for Edmonton. Hopefully it works out for both teams.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Right idea bad execution for the Sabres imo.

Maybe they’re not that high on Savoie, AND the pro scouting think McLeod has more to give and could be a good add?

McLeod filled a need for Buffalo now, where Savoie could have potentially filled a need down the road. The difference is that Buffalo has several top 6 forward prospects all on similar timelines. Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund, Savoie and maybe even Helenius could all be ready for the jump by next season without enough roster spots for them all. Savoie's size may have played a role in him being the odd man out given they already have a similar sized forward on the roster in Benson.

While it would have been nice to get a more established Center, McLeod fit the age group and potential as a longer term fit being an RFA after this season.

 

[bossram]

Starting an argument with in smarter than you, and I know more than you stopped working in early grade school.

Simply responding in kind to the other poster. They began with the insults.

And hey, I am smarter than that poster. Guess the truth hurts.

 

[bossram]

Lol you bring up poor showings at World juniors and Mem Cup but fail to mention he was almost a PPG in a small size of the AHL in his D+2 year

Yeah. Small sample.

I guess if you're biased you can have 6 games outweigh the rest.

 

[Ninety7]

Simply responding in kind to the other poster. They began with the insults.

And hey, I am smarter than that poster. Guess the truth hurts.

And he doubles down folks! Sure we might not be as intelligent as you, but you definitely have made yourself look like the biggest ass in this thread.

As for whining about me “insulting” you… your very first post in this thread was an insult hurled at 90% of people in this thread … “there are a few people who actually know puck in this thread”. Lmao do you actually talk like that in person?

Oh and you haven’t answered my question so I’ll take everything you say, especially your self proclaimed intelligence with a grain of salt.

You called Ryan McLeod a two way centre. Which he isn’t. He barely has a lick of offensive ability, except when he played with Draisaitl and his numbers were inflated, and most of his production came on the wing, where he is undoubtedly better. So yeah. I don’t think you are as intelligent as you think you are.

 

[threeVo]

people need to pump the brakes real quick on the "Savoie is going to have a huge season with McDrai" talk. Hes very unlikely to play in the NHL this year let alone in the Oilers top 6

 

[Ninety7]

I think my biggest issue with the trade is that to me what McLeod does effectively isn't something that Buffalo is well-positioned to capitalize on. McLeod can at times neutralize play effectively with his reasonably good mobility and puck-carrying ability. which is what the defensive metrics are actually reflecting in my view. As we all saw, that doesn't translate effectively to playoff hockey.

Ok, suppose the Sabres say we're not considered with his playoff shortcomings at this stage, we're just trying to improve the on-ice product (I think that's short-sighted, but whatever). I still don't think what McLeod does well translates. McLeod's ability to neutralize shifts I think was helpful in the Oilers' regular season play, largely because they have an absolutely nuclear top six that allows them to play with a lead more often than most teams. On the Oilers' roster, McLeod was a good fit because his ability to transport the puck on McDavid and Draisaitl's off shifts helped take the sting out of things. Unfortunately, the Thompson and Cozens lines don't have the firepower to put McLeod in those favorable positions nearly as often.

I actually have no issue with them moving Savoie for a "3C", I just think they targeted the completely wrong profile of player. A guy in the Adam Lowry mold (not saying Lowry himself was available) would've been a huge addition for a Buffalo team that needs guys who can contribute effectively in a broader range of situations, and who can compete in the difficult areas of the ice. McLeod has a very narrow range of utility and I don't think this Sabres roster is well-designed to capitalize on it at all, frankly.

This is simply the most accurate post

Those expecting McLeod to be a master class defensive specialist are going to be in a world of hurt.

He was -4 in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs and had a whopping one point.

In the finals he was one of the least used forwards and he was outscored by a decent margin while being relegated to the fourth line. This is a guy who was called out by his coach and healthy scratched… reliable 3 C’s don’t get scratched.

The good news is that he is still young and he might be able to change. He is still a decent player that definitely has value (definitely not a top 10 draft pick). Sometimes I swear he looked like Mcdavid out there by the way he was skating. But it’s been 7 years since he was drafted and really he still has the same questions to his game that he did while in junior - Soft and questionable compete level.

 

[bossram]

Ah yes, the sign of an intelligent person is telling everybody how intelligent he really is.

All I needed to do was take two seconds to look through your post history. It’s all about Savoie. A lot of investment from someone who doesn’t have a horse in the race. Honestly sounds like someone’s a little salty.


I would love to know what your definition of a blue chip prospect is and who actually falls into that category. Please enlighten us laypeople

I just made a post in the thread. Some people (mostly aggressive EDM fans) responded. I replied. Is that "invested"? I'm not sure. Are the people like you that keep replying invested? I also like arguing about hockey. It's fun. It's HFboards. And the insults and devolution of this exchange started from you. Just responding in kind.

I'd define a "blue chip" prospect as one that is likelier than not to be a top of the lineup contributor (1st line forward or 1st pair defenseman). I don't think there are that many pure prospects (i.e. excluding young players already full-time in the NHL) that fall into that. I'd consider, in no particular order:
- Celebrini
- Levshunov
- Buium
- Smith
- Michkov
- Demidov
- Clarke

Edge cases
- Wright
- Leonard
- Gauthier
- Edvinsson
- Kulich

Really only 7 I would put for sure in that bucket.

There isn’t a top 50 prospects ranking out there without Savoie on it. I haven’t seen many where he isnt top 25.

He’s objectively a top prospect.

I would put Savoie in the same tier of prospect as someone like Lekkerimaki. Good prospect, they have a chance at being a high-end player, but not a great bet at it.

Yes I watched every Warriors playoff game this year because Savoie was on the team. I also watched every Americans game to see Kulich/Rosen/Levi. So did quite a few people on these boards. You can ask them the same questions. I will likely try to watch all of Konsta's games this year as well.

I've given my take on him as a prospect. How his game has developed since he's been drafted. He was someone I was high on, but soured on him this last year. I've watched him in juniors, WJC, developmental camp, and during prospect scrimmages. He was someone I was hoping would make the roster last season.

I have never said that he was shit or that he going to be a bust. That's just something you made up. I said that he was a good prospect, but his value had dropped. Something that other NHL people have also said like Pronman. He certainly has issues like his size, injury concerns, and some of his recent performances as well.

If you don't want someone's honest take on a prospect maybe just stick to your team board

Some people just can't handle an unbiased evaluation.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yeah. Small sample.

I guess if you're biased you can have 6 games outweigh the rest.

yet you point out the small sample size of the Memorial Cup and World juniors as evidence he "struggles" lol

most Oiler fans don't expect this guy to come in and be a 70 point player, but to say he's isn't a bonafide blue-chip prospect is absolutely false..not many players, even the best prospects, put up 2 PPG at 20 years old

to get a prospect like this for essentially a cap dump, is exceptional value

 

[bossram]

yet you point out the small sample size of the Memorial Cup and World juniors as evidence he "struggles" lol

most Oiler fans don't expect this guy to come in and be a 70 point player, but to say he's isn't a bonafide blue-chip prospect is absolutely false..not many players, even the best prospects, put up 2 PPG at 20 years old

to get a prospect like this for essentially a cap dump, is exceptional value

I mean, the WHL playoffs + WJCs are a sample 5x larger than what you're referencing.

No, Savoie is not an elite prospect. I've outlined in several posts why.

I never said that it's a bad trade for EDM. I also outlined why I think it could be a slam dunk for EDM (by flipping Savoie to a team that does value him like an elite prospect).