Confirmed Trade: [BUF/EDM] Ryan McLeod and Tyler Tullio for Matt Savoie

[thadd]

How are people this shocked about a big return for a center after seeing massive contracts for centers and massive trade returns for centers.

Mcleod was 100% worth a 1st++.

25, excellent defensively and on the kill, one of the better skaters in the league. quality 3Cs are a rare commodity

I have no clue what McLeod is worth.

He's a great penalty killer. Great skater. That's it.

Average passer. Too shy to shoot consistently.
He's probably the pound for pound easiest player to push off of the puck. He never wins physical battles. He doesn't use his frame to do anything. He may as well be 5"2 80 pounds.

He's a perimeter player with a crappy shot.

Why is that 100% worth 1st++?

 

[Leafshater67]

Lmao you literally just made that up. This is trolling right? It has to be.

No he didn’t. Matt called me himself this morning and confirmed he’s only 5’7 and that he told Buffalo he was out. Source - trust me bro.

Even if Buffalo didn’t think he was a longterm fit, this is awful asset management and a really poor return package. They shoulda kept him if this was all they could get.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sure, that's a reasonable argument. And following that way of thinking and to my first point, is it then hard to believe that Yamamoto's measurements would be 'adjusted' to a similar degree? My entire point was that Yamamoto and Savoie are clearly different players with different styles. Perhaps Savoie is smaller than what is listed, but Yamamoto likely is too. The direct comparison between Yamamoto and Savoie based on size is pointless, when in fact there is a definitive and non-minimal difference between the two.

Not sure why the other guy was upset for me using the word 'logic' to describe the thinking process that we are both talking about right now: players measurements are bumped to look 'better' on paper. If all the stats are over-reported, perhaps if the degree they are over-reported is consistent, say 5-10%, then the relation between the numbers is more accurate than expected.

This other guy is pointing out the “logic” of thinking there is a consistent relation is just guesswork and assuming everyone’s bumped up the same. That’s all I was pointing out. Whether Savoie is his weight or not isn’t going to make a difference, so it’s all meaningless anyway.

 

[Pucklington]

Nobody who says that McLeod is lucky to be in the NHL is credible. He can play as your #3C but he has flaws in that regard. I think most Oiler fans see him more as a winger or a #4C had he stayed.

100%

McLeod is a good 3rd line winger, who can daylight as a 2nd line winger short periods.

He is not ideally suited as 3rd line centre. He was sheltered in Edmonton and still struggled playing centre, and he is not being sheltered in Buffalo.

Maybe something switches in his brain, but he's not shown being a capable centre beyond the 4th line.

Top play a top 9 role, he needs to play wing.

That being said. He has good hands, and is Buffalo's fastest player.

 

[Half Clapper]

So, which one is it Clapper?

Us Oiler fans really need to know, is he 5'7 or 5'7.5? He went from 5'7 tops, to around 5'7.5 in a matter of 90 minutes.

Nonetheless, I'm upset that you believe he's going to bust and won't be good in the NHL. You seem like you really know your stuff.

So the professionals measured wrong or when you see someone in person without an accurate tool to measure with as you are clearly not an expert your off by about 1.5"

Don't get me wrong, it's impressive you can get that close with just your eyes and blind confidence

He is actually 6'2 boys. He has a great pair of high-top shoes that he wears around.

 

[Mr Positive]

I have no clue what McLeod is worth.

He's a great penalty killer. Great skater. That's it.

Average passer. Too shy to shoot consistently.
He's probably the pound for pound easiest player to push off of the puck. He never wins physical battles. He doesn't use his frame to do anything. He may as well be 5"2 80 pounds.

He's a perimeter player with a crappy shot.

Why is that 100% worth 1st++?

He's not worth a 1st +++ but surely a late first

You are stating the floor of his value. First off, his shot is okay. He's had key goals on our playoff run and they look good. He can't score on the rush like McDavid can but he's okay. He can recognize the play well, and plays decent in the top six as a winger.

He's also young and still developing. That factor has measurable value too. His big downside is that he doesn't attack the net enough, but he does do it at times and he's working on it.

As an Oiler fan I like this trade on several angles. I do think we won this trade, but there is a win-win element to it. There are ways that McLeod is more valuable than Savoie today

 

[RoadWarrior]

McLeod is a legit NHL player who should play 82 games if healthy. I love the guy and am sad he's gone. Agree though.. better suited to Wing.

No guarantee Savoie makes an impact for the Oilers. He may be in Bakersfield all year. Still .. the upside is amazing and we need high end elcs.

Savoie is a hometown favourite but still a gamble. There’s no guarantee his game will translate to the NHL. With McLeod you are at least getting a decent two way winger who can fill gaps in the lineup. A known quantity.

 

[Old Boys Club]

This other guy is pointing out the “logic” of thinking there is a consistent relation is just guesswork and assuming everyone’s bumped up the same. That’s all I was pointing out. Whether Savoie is his weight or not isn’t going to make a difference, so it’s all meaningless anyway.

Yep fair. Was going to write out a blurb on my opinions on the variance of the over-reporting NHL clubs do, but it is meaningless in the overall picture.

Totally agree with your second point, I don't think Savoie plays a game that's size reliant, his success will be determined by whether his puck skills and IQ transfer over. In contrast, Yamamoto played a style of game more reliant on physical skills (which were obviously lacking), hence why I think the comparisons between the two are silly.

 

[commie]

Which was best on Edmonton and best on Buffalo and not even close that's why

huh? McLeod had the worse Faceoff% of all the Oiler's regular C's:

Drai 56.9, D Ryan 55.8, Henqriue 55.2, McDavid 51.1, then finally Mcleod at 50.8, and that was McCleod's best in years.
See his name all the way down the list of FO%?

McLeod can do a lot of things well (skating, speed), but a Gritty physical faceoff center he is not.
You'll never see McLeod take a defensive zone faceoff in the last minute of a game protecting a one goal lead.
Put him in the right situation and he can thrive, but don't over expect what he can provide, or you will be left wanting and cursing and throwing objects at the TV, as many of us have done in the past watching him. He provided decent enough results as a 2/3 LW on a line with an line driver and a decent PKer, certainly worth his $2million salary for this coming year. But after the 24-25 season he has 1 year left on his RFA contract, with arbitration rights, will lightly come in around 3-4.5 million. Then he becomes an UFA the year after. He has played himself out of the Oilers lineup with his salary structure, Oilers can't be paying this player >$4 million.

 

[McMoMoney29]

If we got a 3rd round pick for McLeod I would’ve thought that’d be fair. I think oil fans like me might be overrating a prospect in savoie at the moment but we’re just ecstatic at the return we got for a guy that might not even be cracking our lineup. If McLeod gets more physical he’d be a good 3rd line center. Problem is he’s one of the least physical players I’ve ever watched.

 

[jamienwalker]

A few of the players obtained by Buffalo bring a heaviness that a couple of them have said, becomes contagious. Buffalo has a LOT of size and speed (now) so if it catches on with 3 players/shift, it allows others to play freely. I think Lindy Ruff has his hands on the whole overhaul. It seems, they've brought in specific players for a reason. I guess we'll see if it works out.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Overhated is a great forum word I’m going to steal

As long as you do not ask too much of him you will be fine. Oiler fans just wanted more than he could do. He is a third line defensive player--as long as you remember that you will be fine

 

[Zman5778]

huh? McLeod had the worse Faceoff% of all the Oiler's regular C's

And that puts him as Buffalo's best faceoff guy right now.

Nobody on Buffalo that took more then 6 draws did better than 47.7%.

In fact.......and get this, cuz this is a bit scary......Buffalo's top faceoff guys last year were:

Okposo at 47.7%
Girgensons at 47.6%
Mitts at 47.1%
Krebs at 46.3%

Okposo is gone. Girgensons is gone. Mitts is gone. Krebs likely doesn't have an every-game role right now.

So, our best faceoff guys RIGHT NOW:

Tage at 43.3%
Cozens at 45.6%
Lafferty at 42.1%

 

[goonybird]

Maybe Michael can give Ryan some face-off pointers over the phone if he's got enough cigarettes to trade for credit

 

[Thorton02]

And that puts him as Buffalo's best faceoff guy right now.

Nobody on Buffalo that took more then 6 draws did better than 47.7%.

In fact.......and get this, cuz this is a bit scary......Buffalo's top faceoff guys last year were:

Okposo at 47.7%
Girgensons at 47.6%
Mitts at 47.1%
Krebs at 46.3%

Okposo is gone. Girgensons is gone. Mitts is gone. Krebs likely doesn't have an every-game role right now.

So, our best faceoff guys RIGHT NOW:

Tage at 43.3%
Cozens at 45.6%
Lafferty at 42.1%

Good God. I knew we were awful but taking Okposo and Girgs out....lol. I'm curious, has there ever been a collective worse top 4 in FO% in the league?

 

[The Nuge]

There are a few people who actually know puck in this thread, but it's certainly not the posters calling this a "fleece" for EDM.

I get that the main purpose of trading Mcleod is for cap purposes. So from that sense, mission accomplished.

The return, Savoie, is not nearly as good as most EDM fans are making him out to be. As usual, many people vastly overrate prospects. He's really maybe BUF's 5th best prospect. I'd put all of Kulich, Ostlund, Helenius, and Benson (who was in the NHL so not a "prospect" I guess, but is still 19 and 16 months younger than Savoie) ahead of him. They've also already got Peterka and Quinn on the roster, so there really was never going to be any place for him to play. His realistic NHL upside is a softish, smallish 2nd line winger. Those assets, we see time and again now, don't really have much value in the NHL. At the lower end of his upside, he's a Kailer Yamamoto, that could be had for at league minimum by any team right now.

BUF get a reliable two-way C that is an upgrade on Krebs for the ostensible 3C spot (a big hole since trading Mittelstadt). At $2.1M, bringing 25ish ES points with ++ defensive value and ++ PK value is a good deal.

It's a peculiar trade for EDM. You don't usually see a team that is (or should be) in all-in contention mode (especially during the last years of Bouch/Drai's contracts) trade for a prospect. Honestly, the best argument for this deal from an EDM POV is that they've found themselves an upgraded trade chip for this year's trade deadline. Savoie is not going to help the team this season, or even appreciably help them in the last year of McD's contract, so turning Savoie into another piece to help them in the post-season makes the most sense.

It’s really not that peculiar. He’s a 4C and PK specialist, but he was likely to be like 5th or 6th among forwards in PK time so that takes away from his usefulness there. And he was going to be competing with Janmark, Holloway, and Perry to even be in the lineup. So you’re spending over 2 million for a guy likely to be healthy scratched like a quarter of the time. Or you move him, which fixes the cap issue, and gets a cheap scoring forward when McDavid and Draisaitl’s extensions kick in.

Since were doing hot takes let me chime in: Atleast McLeod will have a NHL career.

It’s not a hot take at all. McLeod is legitimately among the softest players in the league. Oiler fans have been complaining about him for years. He wouldn’t even battle with the Stanley Cup on the line.

I have money on Adams being a sucker and desperate to save his job & make the playoffs this year.

However, I think Adams saw how quickly Savoie went down last year with an injury. Considering the Sabres are soft as butter, other teams like Florida and Tampa take lots of liberties with us, guys like Savoie will get eaten alive. Adams did not get value back but I suspect he wanted to pivot away from smaller guys and get a 3rd line C/W that can provide insurance if Krebs is a lame duck this year.

I'm, still not sure what to think about the players we got back. Half of the posters say Mcleod is lucky to be in the NHL, the other half say he's a legit 3rd line center. I assume Tullio is just a warm body, no idea why he was involved.

I will be utterly shocked if Savoie is softer than McLeod. He’s a speedy 4C and PK specialist. Defensively he’s just ok at even strength, and prone to making costly mistakes, but he’s good at carrying the puck out of the zone. He doesn’t have much of a shot and is an ok passer. He refuses to play any sort of physical game, including not wanting to drive the net, so unfortunately a lot of his rushes end with him just chipping it into the corner and peeling off. He’s by no means useless, or not an NHLer, but he’s also not a legit 3C. Edmonton finally gave up on hoping he would take the next step and fill that role, which is why Henrique was brought in. If you expect him to be a gritty shutdown 3C, you’re going to be extremely disappointed. If you expect him to be a speedy 4C who can PK, you’ll probably like him a lot. And hopefully he can take that next step and turn into a 3C for Buffalo

 

[Goulet17]

I like the move for Buffalo, particularly given their glut of similarly talented forward prospects. Buffalo identified a specific need and addressed it. We'll see how it plays out for them, but I understand the logic of their offseason moves.

The board tendency forever has been to overrate prospects at the expense of proven NHLers. Granted, I am likely biased, as I am not a particular fan of Savoie and his ability to transition to the NHL effectively.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

I like the move for Buffalo, particularly given their glut of similarly talented forward prospects. Buffalo identified a specific need and addressed it. We'll see how it plays out for them, but I understand the logic of their offseason moves.

The board tendency forever has been to overrate prospects at the expense of proven NHLers. Granted, I am likely biased, as I am not a particular fan of Savoie and his ability to transition to the NHL effectively.

What do you think the specific need is that McLeod will fill? Please don’t take that as sarcastic, I’m just wondering how he is perceived around the league and what role the Sabres will expect him to fill. I like your team and have a lot of time for the player. He is an addition by subtraction with what he brought to the table for the Oil with his cap hit but I wish him well.

 

[belair]

I have no clue what McLeod is worth.

He's a great penalty killer. Great skater. That's it.

Average passer. Too shy to shoot consistently.
He's probably the pound for pound easiest player to push off of the puck. He never wins physical battles. He doesn't use his frame to do anything. He may as well be 5"2 80 pounds.

He's a perimeter player with a crappy shot.

Why is that 100% worth 1st++?

Because these 15 minute-a-night, multi-faceted forwards are always in limited supply in the NHL.

Guys that can play a center or on the wing, on a checking line or a scoring role and not leave anything to be desired. They generally have more of a physical profile, but most of them don't skate as quickly as Clouder does.

There was probably a point in Andrew Cogliano's career where a team would be happy to throw a 1st out there for him, knowing that they could have him for the next five seasons.

The rumored ask for Laughton at last years deadline was two 1sts, wasn't it?

 

[freester]

I think Oilers fans are spoiled by having so much talent at Center. RNH is a 2nd line Center on most teams. Clearly the Oilers won the trade but Savoie is small and has injury concerns. I think he needs a year in the AHL and then will become a great playmaker with Leon or RNH. Sabres are desperate to win now and hopefully McLeod can evolve to become a good 3rd Center or 2nd line winger.

 

[DatDude44]

My first, 2nd and 3rd reactions to this were WTF is Buffalo doing.....after some research, Seeing Mcleod's defensive metrics, skating ability and (somewhat liking him via the eye test last two seasons), I atleast understand why Kevyn did what he did.

Matt Savoie is an extremely high end prospect, but he's small, with a small frame and has had tons of injury issues over the last 5 years and combining that with the Sabres glutton of high end fwd prospects, it makes sense that a deal like this came about.

I like it for the Sabres in terms of improving their team a little bit at the moment, but i still think they could've garnered a higher end return on a guy as high end as savoie.

But, with everything being said, Kevyn needs to win this year to keep his job and this helps him do that, and given their prospect pool and young current roster players, I don't think he's mortgaging the future, moreso changing the composition of this teams future, which Mcleod also factors into everything long term.

Even though I don't love the value for the sabres, I do really like the fit of mcleod and the thought process behind adding him as most likely their defensive matchup 3C

 

[belair]

I think Oilers fans are spoiled by having so much talent at Center. RNH is a 2nd line Center on most teams. Clearly the Oilers won the trade but Savoie is small and has injury concerns. I think he needs a year in the AHL and then will become a great playmaker with Leon or RNH. Sabres are desperate to win now and hopefully McLeod can evolve to become a good 3rd Center or 2nd line winger.

He'll probably play up the middle in Bako, but he's a winger on a scoring line if he's in Edmonton. It's not rocket surgery getting production out of the speedy little guy.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Being a Josh Anderson hater, it is wonderful to see how the idea of gritty 3C FO-specialist unicorn is shot down before it gets any wheels. There has to be a cauldron filled with intangibles within him, dig deeper.

From this day on other GMs will always look for a fleece when dealing with him. Call it a Bergevin or Chiarelli territory. Why should I do normal hockey trade with you if there's even a tiny chance he'll let go of Benson or Peterka. Trades are hard when others know you're bleeding.

 

[Rydgar]

I would have traded Pius Suter for Savoie and, IMO, Suter has more value than Macleod.

 

[belair]

I would have traded Pius Suter for Savoie and, IMO, Suter has more value than Macleod.

I don't think there's one aspect of Suter's game that's better than McLeod's. McLeod, is bigger, faster, has better productivity and he's three years younger and an RFA at the end of his deal.

I've always been a fan of Suter's dating back to his time in Guelph, but there's a reason that Vancouver got him cheap.