Dreger: Buchnevich is likely to be traded

[PocketNines]

At I stated earlier. The asking price for Buch is 2x1sts. Teams usually meet in the middle. The package I stated is the middle price. 1st, Bourgault, conditional 2nd and Foegele(cap dump but he's worth a 3rd).

got it so the fact that he's under contract for another year is just something you're going to ghost

in the wake of specific news the blues intend to maximize value by retaining no less

 

[Canovin]

got it so the fact that he's under contract for another year is just something you're going to ghost

in the wake of specific news the blues intend to maximize value by retaining no less

St. Louis can definitely trade him later but keep in mind that injury can happen and value can drop.

 

[Reality Czech]

Sure.. I don't even know why he is on the trade block this deadline.. that's some dumb management in STL land.

If you were paying attention you'd know he's not necessarily on the block. Reports say the Blues are listening to offers but are perfectly willing to wait if their price isn't met. Which I would say is the opposite of dumb management. Pretty much all of the rumors are just speculation from insiders. I've said all along I wouldn't trade him at all if he wants to re-sign but if he doesn't then of course he should be on the block.

 

[Homesick]

got it so the fact that he's under contract for another year is just something you're going to ghost

in the wake of specific news the blues intend to maximize value by retaining no less

Matthias Ekholm had 2 more years under contract and went for two late 1sts and a cap dump(Barrie @4.5m for another year)
Have you got another recent example how a player under contract for another year garnered a massive haul?

 

[PocketNines]

St. Louis can definitely trade him later but keep in mind that injury can happen and value can drop.

"an injury could occur in the future" is at least better than "good faith toward the player" as an argument but not by much.

Your position is, "In general there's compromise. Therefore only one team will get what they want in a Buchnevich trade and it isn't the team that has no urgent need to trade him." It collapses in on itself.

Why is this hard to understand. The Blues have needs. Specific needs. They have forward prospects, plenty. Bourgault would be at best the fifth best forward prospect. But they have no high end D prospects. Why is it unreasonable for the Blues GM to say, hey I have a need, meet my need and I have a player you need.

Buchnevich retained for two playoff runs and plenty of time to figure out a different contract to move so you can extend a highly useful forward? And you get it, not your rivals? Right when you truly need such a player? You know you have to give something that hurts. Next deadline his value will be lower. The Blues can absolutely afford to pass if they don't get a need met.

 

[PocketNines]

Matthias Ekholm had 2 more years under contract and went for two late 1sts and a cap dump(Barrie @4.5m for another year)
Have you got another recent example how a player under contract for another year garnered a massive haul?

we are looking for a specific kind of return, not a massive haul. 1st + Morrow would be ideal

 

[LTIR]

Well fun to speculate until Friday... it's the Xmas week in hf land. Enjoy

 

[Macheteops]

Matthias Ekholm had 2 more years under contract and went for two late 1sts and a cap dump(Barrie @4.5m for another year)
Have you got another recent example how a player under contract for another year garnered a massive haul?

Was Barrie a cap dump? I recall most Oiler fans saying he was worth his cap hit. I do recall fans of other teams calling him a cap dump. I personally thought he was close to his cap hit in terms of value at that time

 

[BleedBlue14]

St. Louis can definitely trade him later but keep in mind that injury can happen and value can drop.

Injury can happen with anyone. I don’t think anybody is clueless enough to not realize that as the deadline passes his value goes down. The crazy part is how it’s continually disregarded that we have a very clear need, and our front office wants to remain somewhat competitive and not bottom out.

There is nothing about a package of a 24 1st, Bourgault, conditional 2nd and Foegle that addresses our one glaring need.

Trading Buchnevich at this moment is not something that needs to be done. Trading him with retention certainly isn’t as well.

We don’t gave an empty pool currently. We have a surplus of good forward prospects already. We need a piece along with Lindstein to balance out the pool.

So why not answer when people call and say sure we’d move him if it fills a hole in our system. It’s not a conversation of hey we need to move this guy because we want to jump the market for next seasons rental market.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Was Barrie a cap dump? I recall most Oiler fans saying he was worth his cap hit. I do recall fans of other teams calling him a cap dump. I personally thought he was close to his cap hit in terms of value at that time

I guess only the GM's who made the deal know if the Predators considered Barrie a cap dump. The way he was playing with Edmonton, he was earning his money. The way he has been used in Nashville this year, it doesn't appear that he is earning it there.

Why would we accept a deal we wouldn't find acceptable now, when there would be more buyers at the draft? Your offer is basically what we'd expect at the deadline next year, so why should we accept that now?

If Edmonton had a prospect of real quality, then a deal could be done now. Too many questions around Broberg and Holloway. Bourgault doesn't even get the conversation going.

The type of prospect you're really looking for is the type of prospect that really doesn't get traded very often. Most teams have at least 1 or 2 prospects they won't move at all.

 

[ManofSteel55]

At I stated earlier. The asking price for Buch is 2x1sts. Teams usually meet in the middle. The package I stated is the middle price. 1st, Bourgault, conditional 2nd and Foegele(cap dump but he's worth a 3rd).

I agree, I think if the public asking price is two 1sts, that really means that the price is a 1st, and a package of assets equal to the value of a 1st - as long as the assets are viewed as equivalent to the 1st by St. Louis management. What Edmonton values those prospects at doesn't mean anything.

For your deal, the first this year seems like it has to be included, and that's fair. A piece for cap (Foegele) might also need to be included, or traded as part of another package - we don't know if St. Louis management would want to flip Foegele or try to re-sign him, but I anticipate it would be a scenario where he is flipped somewhere else. So let's say that Blues management considers Foegele to be worth a 4th round pick. We still need to come up with enough of the right assets to convince the Blues to do it, and that probably means a 2nd next year and a prospect. I don't know St. Louis' weaknesses in their prospect pool, but I don't think Bourgault will be of interest on HF, as he was drafted a few years ago now and he hasn't shown to be close to an NHL call up yet. It might even need to be a guy like Holloway.

Would St. Louis do a 2024 1st, Dylan Holloway, and Foegele for Buchnevich? It looks a lot closer to something they might accept than using Bourgault and a conditional 2nd as the sweetener for the 2nd year. Holloway gets them their 2nd "1st value" prospect, and they eat Foegele for us to help fit Buchnevich in.

 

[Spektre]

I agree, I think if the public asking price is two 1sts, that really means that the price is a 1st, and a package of assets equal to the value of a 1st - as long as the assets are viewed as equivalent to the 1st by St. Louis management. What Edmonton values those prospects at doesn't mean anything.

For your deal, the first this year seems like it has to be included, and that's fair. A piece for cap (Foegele) might also need to be included, or traded as part of another package - we don't know if St. Louis management would want to flip Foegele or try to re-sign him, but I anticipate it would be a scenario where he is flipped somewhere else. So let's say that Blues management considers Foegele to be worth a 4th round pick. We still need to come up with enough of the right assets to convince the Blues to do it, and that probably means a 2nd next year and a prospect. I don't know St. Louis' weaknesses in their prospect pool, but I don't think Bourgault will be of interest on HF, as he was drafted a few years ago now and he hasn't shown to be close to an NHL call up yet. It might even need to be a guy like Holloway.

Would St. Louis do a 2024 1st, Dylan Holloway, and Foegele for Buchnevich? It looks a lot closer to something they might accept than using Bourgault and a conditional 2nd as the sweetener for the 2nd year. Holloway gets them their 2nd "1st value" prospect, and they eat Foegele for us to help fit Buchnevich in.

No idea if Army would accept but I hope not. Nothing about sending Buch to Edmonton excites me. They simply don't have top prospects of any kind.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I guess only the GM's who made the deal know if the Predators considered Barrie a cap dump. The way he was playing with Edmonton, he was earning his money. The way he has been used in Nashville this year, it doesn't appear that he is earning it there.


The type of prospect you're really looking for is the type of prospect that really doesn't get traded very often. Most teams have at least 1 or 2 prospects they won't move at all.

I'm not arguing that we should get a Willander or a Nikishin or a Edvinsson. I agree that level of prospect is unrealistic. If the situation was flipped, we wouldn't move Snuggerud or Dvorsky. Everyone else in our prospect pool would be on the table. A Lindstein, a Stenberg, etc. Morrow is a guy from Carolina that I believe would work for us.

The issue for me in regards to the Edmonton prospects, I view them as mostly trending down, not up. I think Holloway will develop into a nice career, but I'm not sure the upside is truly there, and he doesn't fit an area of need. Broberg would fit the need, but there are obviously question marks with him, so it's really up to how our scouts view him.

 

[PocketNines]

I agree, I think if the public asking price is two 1sts, that really means that the price is a 1st, and a package of assets equal to the value of a 1st - as long as the assets are viewed as equivalent to the 1st by St. Louis management. What Edmonton values those prospects at doesn't mean anything.

For your deal, the first this year seems like it has to be included, and that's fair. A piece for cap (Foegele) might also need to be included, or traded as part of another package - we don't know if St. Louis management would want to flip Foegele or try to re-sign him, but I anticipate it would be a scenario where he is flipped somewhere else. So let's say that Blues management considers Foegele to be worth a 4th round pick. We still need to come up with enough of the right assets to convince the Blues to do it, and that probably means a 2nd next year and a prospect. I don't know St. Louis' weaknesses in their prospect pool, but I don't think Bourgault will be of interest on HF, as he was drafted a few years ago now and he hasn't shown to be close to an NHL call up yet. It might even need to be a guy like Holloway.

Would St. Louis do a 2024 1st, Dylan Holloway, and Foegele for Buchnevich? It looks a lot closer to something they might accept than using Bourgault and a conditional 2nd as the sweetener for the 2nd year. Holloway gets them their 2nd "1st value" prospect, and they eat Foegele for us to help fit Buchnevich in.

is dylan holloway rhd or lhd?

 

[ManofSteel55]

No idea if Army would accept but I hope not. Nothing about sending Buch to Edmonton excites me. They simply don't have top prospects of any kind.

That's fair. Most teams wouldn't send their top prospects anyway.

is dylan holloway rhd or lhd?

You can play him wherever you like I suppose. I really only included him as a placeholder as he should have the value St. Louis is looking for. No need to be a wiseguy about positional value, neither of us are signing off on this trade.

 

[Spektre]

That's fair. Most teams wouldn't send their top prospects anyway.


You can play him wherever you like I suppose. I really only included him as a placeholder as he should have the value St. Louis is looking for. No need to be a wiseguy about positional value, neither of us are signing off on this trade.

When I say top prospects, I mean impactful. Holloway is mostly likely the Oilers' best "prospect". If you were running the Blues, would you trade 2 seasons of Buch if he was the biggest name coming the other way?

I would hope most Blues fans expectations on a return is somewhat grounded in reality, besides the one guy Colt55 posting 100 times demanding what other teams must give.

As stated above, Willander, Nikishin, & Edvinsson and similar prospects are most likely off limits.

From Detroit, something like Wallinder, + a 1st, + something smaller is probably in the reality realm. He's big, 6' 4'', plays a need LHD, and 21 years old, so his impact isn't 2-3 years from now. He's not a top notch A+++ prospect but he will hopefully hit his potential as a top 4 D.

It doesn't have to be that exact package obviously, but hopefully that's the kind of value coming the other way. Who knows, Army could target a forward prospect & a 1st. If he does, I would hope the value on the forward prospect would be a little higher than Wallinder.

To me, Vegas is the team that could part with the most. Even if it's not the exact assets of positional need the Blues are looking for. That org just loves to go for it.

Carolina makes a lot of sense to me also.

Who knows... the deadline is coming pretty quickly

 

[Canovin]

"an injury could occur in the future" is at least better than "good faith toward the player" as an argument but not by much.

Your position is, "In general there's compromise. Therefore only one team will get what they want in a Buchnevich trade and it isn't the team that has no urgent need to trade him." It collapses in on itself.

Why is this hard to understand. The Blues have needs. Specific needs. They have forward prospects, plenty. Bourgault would be at best the fifth best forward prospect. But they have no high end D prospects. Why is it unreasonable for the Blues GM to say, hey I have a need, meet my need and I have a player you need.

Buchnevich retained for two playoff runs and plenty of time to figure out a different contract to move so you can extend a highly useful forward? And you get it, not your rivals? Right when you truly need such a player? You know you have to give something that hurts. Next deadline his value will be lower. The Blues can absolutely afford to pass if they don't get a need met.

Not every trades will address both team needs. Look at Ekholm trade for Nashville. What need did it address for Nashville? They basically took back value in the form of draft currency. Nashville addressed their needs thru free agency

 

[PocketNines]

Not every trades will address both team needs. Look at Ekholm trade for Nashville. What need did it address for Nashville? They basically took back value in the form of draft currency. Nashville addressed their needs thru free agency

ok I guess we won't address a need in our one realistic way to do so if Nashville didn't do the same ....

 

[AyeBah]

Marco Kasper isn't injured and not in the Grand Rapids LineupAlso Yzerman said today no planned callup for Larkin injury. So basically he's on the plane to STL right now

 

[hockeykicker]

lebrun says ask is too high. doesnt see a trade happening

 

[ManofSteel55]

When I say top prospects, I mean impactful. Holloway is mostly likely the Oilers' best "prospect". If you were running the Blues, would you trade 2 seasons of Buch if he was the biggest name coming the other way?

I would hope most Blues fans expectations on a return is somewhat grounded in reality, besides the one guy Colt55 posting 100 times demanding what other teams must give.

As stated above, Willander, Nikishin, & Edvinsson and similar prospects are most likely off limits.

From Detroit, something like Wallinder, + a 1st, + something smaller is probably in the reality realm. He's big, 6' 4'', plays a need LHD, and 21 years old, so his impact isn't 2-3 years from now. He's not a top notch A+++ prospect but he will hopefully hit his potential as a top 4 D.

It doesn't have to be that exact package obviously, but hopefully that's the kind of value coming the other way. Who knows, Army could target a forward prospect & a 1st. If he does, I would hope the value on the forward prospect would be a little higher than Wallinder.

To me, Vegas is the team that could part with the most. Even if it's not the exact assets of positional need the Blues are looking for. That org just loves to go for it.

Carolina makes a lot of sense to me also.

Who knows... the deadline is coming pretty quickly

Well unless you have the inside information on how the Blues scouting department views Dylan Holloway, I don't think it matters much what you are looking for in a prospect. No offense, but I am not concerned with your evaluation of the player.

 

[Spektre]

Well unless you have the inside information on how the Blues scouting department views Dylan Holloway, I don't think it matters much what you are looking for in a prospect. No offense, but I am not concerned with your evaluation of the player.

Fair enough but it’s not like my opinion of Holloway is unique, or out of the ordinary.

He projects as a top 9 player by most analysts.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Fair enough but it’s not like my opinion of Holloway is unique, or out of the ordinary.

He projects as a top 9 player by most analysts.

Middle six, yeah. Teams rarely trade their prospects who are tracking to be sure fire top liners, and I doubt any of those prospects would be on the table.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Detroit sends
2024 1st rounder
+Amedeus Lombardi (C) prospect with high skill
+William Wallinder (LHD), Albert Johanson (LHD) , antti tuomosti (RHD) or Andrew Gibson (RHD)
Small cap dump for roster spot

the asking price is probably too high scaring teams off.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Detroit sends
2024 1st rounder
+Amedeus Lombardi (C) prospect with high skill
+William Wallinder (LHD), Albert Johanson (LHD) , antti tuomosti (RHD) or Andrew Gibson (RHD)
Small cap dump for roster spot

the asking price is probably too high scaring teams off.

Some of our posters like Wallinder and Gibson, so one of them would likely get a deal done in our view.