Bruins Off Season III

[GloryDaze4877]

On the same page? I'm not arguing they aren't.

I'm just saying that I bet at year's end Donny said "I'll work to improve this defense", and I bet Claude isn't overly excited that he didn't get anything done.

And I would bet that he and Sweeney have discussed it. Probably with DS telling him, we are trying to add a Top pair D, but aren't going to get bent over in the process. If he and Clode can make it though the next two seasons, I think Clode is going to like the D in the pipeline.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

On the same page? I'm not arguing they aren't.

I'm just saying that I bet at year's end Donny said "I'll work to improve this defense", and I bet Claude isn't overly excited that he didn't get anything done.

this seems to assume they haven't talked all Summer. they are probably constantly talking about how to improve the D.

Who's to say this convo hasn't happened in some form:
Sweeney: "There's a move I can make for D help now but it would cost X, Y, Z (way too much). I'm not prepared to pay that much."
Claude: "Yep, I agree. I'm prepared to work with what we have if a better deal doesn't come along"

It's not like Claude is on a tropical island all summer and then comes back and looks at the roster on bruins.com and is like "WHAT? NO D IMPROVEMENTS?"

 

[Dr Quincy]

Coaches and GMs don't always have the same perspective and their priorities aren't always exactly the same.

Anybody who thinks Claude is perfectly happy with this group of D and is fine with waiting until Zboril can go into the Cask and Flagon before adding anybody significant is kidding themselves.

That's fine, cause as I said Don needs to think long term and coaches think immediate. But please don't buy into the "Yup they've talked and are in total agreement". If Claude agrees this is a perfectly fine D with which to contend for a title he needs to be canned for stupidity. And Claude ain't stupid.

 

[bp13]

And I would bet that he and Sweeney have discussed it. Probably with DS telling him, we are trying to add a Top pair D, but aren't going to get bent over in the process. If he and Clode can make it though the next two seasons, I think Clode is going to like the D in the pipeline.

I agree. I'm sure he likes the pipeline now actually. But if this defense performs as badly as I expect, I'm not overly confident they'll be around to see those kids contribute much.

I'm also skeptical about the effort to add that top pair D man. I'm skeptical that the market is as tough as some keep saying, and I'm skeptical of Sweeney's ability to get something done. I'm not sure if that's a reluctance to get bent over, or just a lack of assets. But ultimately, it just doesn't seem like they're as aggressive as I'd like. And that's not just based on the fact they haven't done anything, it also has to do with early commitments to 3rd pair guys, Backes commitment, etc. Seems to me like their mindset is different than many of us would expect it to be.

I would be in a much happier place with them today if their post-season presser didn't include references to being the next Detroit and they better spent the Backes money, or even kept it. I just feel like it's inevitable now that they'll be poor to mediocre for 2 years, then a very good team in 3-4 years and their biggest issue will be how to get rid of Backes' contract.

 

[ReggieMoto]

Anybody who thinks Claude is perfectly happy with this group of D and is fine with waiting until Zboril can go into the Cask and Flagon before adding anybody significant is kidding themselves.

I haven't read anywhere here that the coach is perfectly happy with this group and I don't believe anyone thinks it. Perfectly happy? I doubt anyone responsible for assembling and coaching the expected roster is perfectly happy with it. But at the end of the day it is what it is, and they will make the most of it.

Please don't buy into the "Yup they've talked and are in total agreement".

Why not? If no one is "perfectly happy" with what appears to be the roster for 2016-2017 they can certainly be in total agreement with how to proceed. It doesn't mean that Sweeney doesn't continue to work to add to the blue line, and it doesn't mean that Claude is going to proceed with failure in mind. I think it makes a load of sense that they've talked about where they are, where they need to get to, and what it means for the team at the start of the season. They could absolutely be in total agreement.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Coaches and GMs don't always have the same perspective and their priorities aren't always exactly the same.

Anybody who thinks Claude is perfectly happy with this group of D and is fine with waiting until Zboril can go into the Cask and Flagon before adding anybody significant is kidding themselves.

That's fine, cause as I said Don needs to think long term and coaches think immediate. But please don't buy into the "Yup they've talked and are in total agreement". If Claude agrees this is a perfectly fine D with which to contend for a title he needs to be canned for stupidity. And Claude ain't stupid.

Who said they always agree?

There is a difference between not agreeing/being 100% happy and not discussing it/being on the same page. I'm sure if Clode had his druthers, the B's Top 4 would be Weber, Doughty, Chara (in his prime), and Larry Robinson. I'm also pretty sure that he realizes this is unrealistic, but has told Sweeney that he would like to have better D now, while they wait for some of the kids to develop.

 

[tburns21]

Does anyone know much about Jakub Nakladal? should he be a guy we bring in to camp via PTO or sign him cheap? of course this is with the intention of moving mcquaid out for a pick or two. nakladal could be a spare or slot in on the 3rd pairing. some have said he looked pretty good in the czechs top 4 at the WCOH.

chara-colin
krug-kevan
liles-nakladal
morrow

you could even sub morrow in some games to play with along side nakladal who's more a defensive dman with a booming shot.

 

[bp13]

Who said they always agree?

There is a difference between not agreeing/being 100% happy and not discussing it/being on the same page. I'm sure if Clode had his druthers, the B's Top 4 would be Weber, Doughty, Chara (in his prime), and Larry Robinson. I'm also pretty sure that he realizes this is unrealistic, but has told Sweeney that he would like to have better D now, while they wait for some of the kids to develop.

Obviously it is reasonable to think the GM and coach are on the same page. I share that same assumption, with confidence actually. But the're also a reality that when teams fail, coaches are the first to go, right? This Bruins defense is lousy, and if they miss the playoffs that's three years in a row. If you were Julien, and you knew these things to be true, would you be happy with the work your boss did this summer? That's my only point. I'm not suggesting disconnects or anything else, just that the GM kinda screwed over his coach this summer. And maybe himself. We can come up with excuses about the marketplace or whatever, but ultimately everyone and their mother thought he'd do something and he didn't.

 

[Coach Parker]

Year three of no D help? As of right now expecting the same or worse result is a sound speculation for the 2016-2017 Boston Bruins.

 

[Coach Parker]

this seems to assume they haven't talked all Summer. they are probably constantly talking about how to improve the D.

Who's to say this convo hasn't happened in some form:
Sweeney: "There's a move I can make for D help now but it would cost X, Y, Z (way too much). I'm not prepared to pay that much."
Claude: "Yep, I agree. I'm prepared to work with what we have if a better deal doesn't come along"

It's not like Claude is on a tropical island all summer and then comes back and looks at the roster on bruins.com and is like "WHAT? NO D IMPROVEMENTS?"

If this was the first year of this black hole on defense then I can see him and everyone else understanding but year three of a faulty, leaky defense?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Obviously it is reasonable to think the GM and coach are on the same page. I share that same assumption, with confidence actually. But the're also a reality that when teams fail, coaches are the first to go, right? This Bruins defense is lousy, and if they miss the playoffs that's three years in a row. If you were Julien, and you knew these things to be true, would you be happy with the work your boss did this summer? That's my only point. I'm not suggesting disconnects or anything else, just that the GM kinda screwed over his coach this summer. And maybe himself. We can come up with excuses about the marketplace or whatever, but ultimately everyone and their mother thought he'd do something and he didn't.

The only way that Sweeney "screwed over" his coach is if he told him one thing and did another. I think Sweeney is aware of the liabilities on D and don't believe he will blame Clode for a lack of talent.

 

[World of Wardlow]

I'm just wondering which D is going to be playing top minutes

 

[Mpasta]

It's only ______ (insert month here). There is still plenty of time for Sweeney to fix the defense before _____ (insert deadline here).

 

[bp13]

It's only ______ (insert month here). There is still plenty of time for Sweeney to fix the defense before _____ (insert deadline here).

Even those folks seem to have vanished.

Now we have the "the trade market is just too ______ (insert adjective for "tough"here). Sweeney would get killed if he gave up ______ (insert too much value here) for the guy we need."

And probably by November we will have "Why is Julien giving ______ (insert mediocre veteran Sweeney recently signed or extended) so much ice time? He loves his binkies. He could have ______ (insert Norris candidate) and he'd still want ______ (insert mediocre veteran that Sweeney recently signed or extended) to play more than him. He's got to go!"

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Even those folks seem to have vanished.

Now we have the "the trade market is just too ______ (insert adjective for "tough"here). Sweeney would get killed if he gave up ______ (insert too much value here) for the guy we need."

And probably by November we will have "Why is Julien giving ______ (insert mediocre veteran Sweeney recently signed or extended) so much ice time? He loves his binkies. He could have ______ (insert Norris candidate) and he'd still want ______ (insert mediocre veteran that Sweeney recently signed or extended) to play more than him. He's got to go!"

"Those folks"

If Sweeney doesn't add a D-man, it's only because he doesn't think the value is there. They have the assets to make a deal, if they want. How much do you want to pay for 1 year of Shattenkirk or some other UFA to be? If the player in question is going to be here for a few years, I'm all for it, but not a rental.

I think he's hoping one of the young guys steps up and is going to see how the D looks before doing anything. Boring? I guess, but more prudent than overpaying for a rental or band aid IMO.

 

[bp13]

"Those folks"

If Sweeney doesn't add a D-man, it's only because he doesn't think the value is there. They have the assets to make a deal, if they want. How much do you want to pay for 1 year of Shattenkirk or some other UFA to be? If the player in question is going to be here for a few years, I'm all for it, but not a rental.

I think he's hoping one of the young guys steps up and is going to see how the D looks before doing anything. Boring? I guess, but more prudent than overpaying for a rental or band aid IMO.

1. I have zero interest in a rental. On that we agree.

2. I think this "overpay" narrative has taken on a life of it's own and I don't subscribe to it. Just because Peter Chiarelli, the same guy who screwed up the Seguin deal, gave away Taylor Hall for Larrson doesn't by itself tell me anything about the market. And I'm also not going to use Sweeney's inability to acquire a dman as support for the narrative because there are other valid reasons he may have failed to date, like he overvalues prospects, or he's gunshy, or he's not a strong negotiator, etc. etc. Any of those seem possible to me.

3. If the plan is to wait until the kids develop into quality players, that seems like a minimum of 3 years away. I have no desire to have that be the plan while simultaneously banking on our current core of forwards and signing guys like Backes. I don't see how it all melds. So they need something to bridge the short-term, IMO, and ideally a guy who will be around for the long term too. Trouba, Lindholm, Shattenkirk if you know he'll sign. But he needs to get one of these types of guys this season so the next 3 years, or more, don't continue to look like the last few.

 

[EverettMike]

"Deals are hard to make," said Peter Chiarelli.

"Hahaha, what a lame excuse," we all laughed.

 

[EverettMike]

 

[Absurdity]

1. I have zero interest in a rental. On that we agree.

2. I think this "overpay" narrative has taken on a life of it's own and I don't subscribe to it. Just because Peter Chiarelli, the same guy who screwed up the Seguin deal, gave away Taylor Hall for Larrson doesn't by itself tell me anything about the market. And I'm also not going to use Sweeney's inability to acquire a dman as support for the narrative because there are other valid reasons he may have failed to date, like he overvalues prospects, or he's gunshy, or he's not a strong negotiator, etc. etc. Any of those seem possible to me.

3. If the plan is to wait until the kids develop into quality players, that seems like a minimum of 3 years away. I have no desire to have that be the plan while simultaneously banking on our current core of forwards and signing guys like Backes. I don't see how it all melds. So they need something to bridge the short-term, IMO, and ideally a guy who will be around for the long term too. Trouba, Lindholm, Shattenkirk if you know he'll sign. But he needs to get one of these types of guys this season so the next 3 years, or more, don't continue to look like the last few.

The plan is to do just that. It's an unfortunate outcome but is the result of sub par drafting from 2007-2013. You mentioned Lindholm and Trouba, both of which I think will make this team better in the short and long term but neither are realistically available and both would require a massive offer to even get ANA and WIN to think about trading them. There's also Fowler and Shattenkirk, both of which are less effective than a Trouba and Lindholm type defenseman. If the rumored price for Shattenkirk/Fowler at the draft, I can't recall which D it was, was Pastrnak + 1st, then yes that is an overpayment. Fowler and Shattenkirk are both #3/4D, something that helps the Bruins now, but if the plan is to develop and ease in youth in order to compete for many years to come but end up trading that youth away for a short term gain, that is just counterproductive. The best thing the Bruins can do is see what they have in the organization and then make the necessary moves to help the team whether it be before the season starts or at the trade deadline. In my opinion, this trade deadline will see a lot of movement because of the upcoming expansion draft so that may be the best time to add a defenseman since there is a good chance it will be a seller's market.

 

[bp13]

The plan is to do just that. It's an unfortunate outcome but is the result of sub par drafting from 2007-2013. You mentioned Lindholm and Trouba, both of which I think will make this team better in the short and long term but neither are realistically available and both would require a massive offer to even get ANA and WIN to think about trading them. There's also Fowler and Shattenkirk, both of which are less effective than a Trouba and Lindholm type defenseman. If the rumored price for Shattenkirk/Fowler at the draft, I can't recall which D it was, was Pastrnak + 1st, then yes that is an overpayment. Fowler and Shattenkirk are both #3/4D, something that helps the Bruins now, but if the plan is to develop and ease in youth in order to compete for many years to come but end up trading that youth away for a short term gain, that is just counterproductive. The best thing the Bruins can do is see what they have in the organization and then make the necessary moves to help the team whether it be before the season starts or at the trade deadline. In my opinion, this trade deadline will see a lot of movement because of the upcoming expansion draft so that may be the best time to add a defenseman since there is a good chance it will be a seller's market.

Where have I read that before? I bet you could go back on this board exactly one year ago and find that exact same post, word for word.

"Colin Miller, Trotman, Morrow, Irwin. Let's see what we have with these guys and if they aren't good enough, we'll make moves before the deadline. We'll have Loui to deal, there's several big-name RFA's coming up on teams with cap issues, the expansion draft after next year and GM's will want to get a jump on that to get max value, etc. etc. "

I laughed reading your post not because it isn't logical, but just because it's exactly the same song we've heard here since Sweeney traded Hamilton. And it looks increasingly likely we'll hear the same old song next summer too.

 

[chizzler]

Well I think stupid trades are easy to make. Good ines aren't so much.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Awesome.

Which one of those guys plays top pair D?

 

[Absurdity]

Where have I read that before? I bet you could go back on this board exactly one year ago and find that exact same post, word for word.

"Colin Miller, Trotman, Morrow, Irwin. Let's see what we have with these guys and if they aren't good enough, we'll make moves before the deadline. We'll have Loui to deal, there's several big-name RFA's coming up on teams with cap issues, the expansion draft after next year and GM's will want to get a jump on that to get max value, etc. etc. "

I laughed reading your post not because it isn't logical, but just because it's exactly the same song we've heard here since Sweeney traded Hamilton. And it looks increasingly likely we'll hear the same old song next summer too.

I know, it sucks.

 

[bp13]

I know, it sucks.

Well yeah, it sucks. But I don't really believe it to be true either because I can't reconcile the strategy with the Backes signing, UNLESS they have gone full Harry Sinden and are just signing the guy for purely PR purposes. And let's not rekindle the Backes debate. I like him a lot as a player. I just don't think any of us will like that deal in years 4 and 5, and if the strategy is to plan for those exact years, then the signing makes no sense. Unless again, like I said, we are back to the old days where fans get treated like ****.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Well yeah, it sucks. But I don't really believe it to be true either because I can't reconcile the strategy with the Backes signing, UNLESS they have gone full Harry Sinden and are just signing the guy for purely PR purposes. And let's not rekindle the Backes debate. I like him a lot as a player. I just don't think any of us will like that deal in years 4 and 5, and if the strategy is to plan for those exact years, then the signing makes no sense. Unless again, like I said, we are back to the old days where fans get treated like ****.

I think Sweeney and the B's believe they can ice a competitive team and rebuild on the fly. They might be wrong, but I don't think there's any big mystery to what's going on.