Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

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Just looking for examples around the league:
Can someone explain what happen to Hubreadau and why he suddenly dropped off?
And is there another elite caliber player that dropped off, but bounced back again? (Pls don't say MacKinnon)

Just trying to see if there's another example out there, and how probable will EP40 go through this and come back as a 90/100pt player again? Or will this be first time in the history of NHL if he does actually make a turnaround?

Some potential examples:

MacKinnon
Eichel
Necas
Reinhart
Point

That’s just based on looking at the top 25 in scoring as it presently stands.

Not all perfect comparables (especially considering we have no idea what is wrong here), but it shows that elite players can go through dips for a season, or even a couple, for various reasons (injury, personal, line mates, systems, etc) and then bounce back.

Something is off with Pettersson. I’m not sure what, but he was too good to be just done at age 26. I’m thinking he will bounce back, but sadly, it won’t happen this season. We have no choice but to ride this out, moving him for scraps pretty much triggers a re-build, so we have to see it through.
 
Surgery for tendonitis is a TERRIBLE idea. If his tendonitis progressed to a significant degenerative tendon, he would have faaaaaar more dysfunction. If I was part of the medical staff I'd advocate for him to be shut down in order to properly strengthen and accept load into his knee again. It's not like he's even making a difference out there.
I would be shocked if debridement was not required
 
What a mealy-mouthed post by you.

Your position: He "may in fact be injured", but look at Dhaliwal saying he's healthy!
I know you really want to catch me in some contradiction, but I never said we should take Dhaliwal’s rumour as the truth. It’s a rumour. I tagged you because you typically give a lot of weight to Dhaliwal rumours. The rumour may or may not be true. Pettersson may or may not be injured. We won’t know unless he confirms this.

Brisson said he had been injured last year. Pettersson confirmed the injury in camp. That's 7 months of a nagging knee injury. Further, 1 year of impaired speed data. Neither one has said that the knee is now fixed.

You say it's "stupid logic" to expect a nagging injury to still be nagging. Ok... How absolutely idiotic would it be to assert a nagging injury is healed when nothing has materially changed in the player's play? I'd call that conclusion braindead.
You are moving the goal posts and strawmanning me as you always do. Your shockingly stupid logic wasn’t the logic you have restated above, it was to argue that Pettersson’s direct testimony, in May of 2024, confirming that he had an injury in 2023-24, should be taken as direct testimony confirming that he currently has an injury 10 months later. I.e., you are trying to take Pettersson’s earlier comment from May of 2024 as contemporaneous direct testimony that he is currently injured in a halfwitted attempt to catch me in a contradiction where I preferred Dhaliwal’s current rumour over this direct testimony. Again, it’s shockingly stupid logic and if you don’t refrain from this obviously disingenuous and stupid line of argument I’m going to stop engaging with you.
In the year end presser, Lalji asks Pettersson about the decline in his production. Pettersson says he suffered a knee injury in January to explain it. The frame is the decline.
Do you have the quote?
So to recap:


1. You called my conclusion that Dhaliwal's intel re: Willander was legit "illogical". You were wrong.
Ultimately, some rumours will be correct and some will be wrong. This isn’t some surprising concept. I gave reasons why I doubted Dhaliwal’s rumour which didn’t apply to this Pettersson rumour. Plus, I acknowledge this current Dhaliwal rumour may be false. I am not taking it as the truth. It just surprises me that he seems so certain.

2. You initially challenged my premise that there is likely a disconnect between management and player re: injury. You were wrong.
We don't know there is a disconnect here. The only evidence you have provided is how each side has handled the disclosure of the injury which you point to as a disconnect in terms of the actual injury which it isn’t necessarily. I have already said this to you, but the inconsistency in disclosure can reasonably be explained by management/coaching not disclosing injuries and letting the players disclose the injuries which is why they said there was no injury initially but Pettersson confirmed there was one later. In fact, it’s almost unfathomable for Pettersson to somehow know he had patellar tendinitis but for management and coaching to not know this.
3. You held up management as an irreproachable authority. Wrong again.
No, that’s a strawman.

4. Pettersson himself explains his decline in production with his knee injury. The cause. You missed it.
Again, I’d love to see a quote where he attributes his poor play to the patellar tendinitis. I recall him being quite sheepish when disclosing the injury.
5. JR left the door open on an unflattering negotiation. Pettersson too was "holding his cards close". Both outline opposition, not mutual understanding (Brisson). You're wrong here too.

The insider rumours just bury you further.

Hell, CAR returned as the destination with the recent Pettersson trade rumours. That must be pure coincidence too eh?
Again, I have no desire to relitigate our original debate from a year ago. And I’ve told you this. And I don’t even have a ton of conviction for my position, and in fact I believe I even recognized I could be wrong. Again, I don’t really care. What I do care about is your total inability to understand the preference for direct testimony over rumours.

At the 4 Nations, Pettersson was icing his knee. Another coincidence?
You realize I keep on acknowledging to you that his knee may be injured, but you keep on sticking your head in the sand strawmanning me as thinking he absolutely must not have an injury.

But in terms of the icing, that may be preventative. Icing helps to stop the tendon from swelling which is effectively what patellar tendinitis is. So he may not currently have patellar tendinitis, but may still ice the knee to ensure it doesn’t come back.

The people who are attempting to dunk on you here, IMO, are doing it for absolutely the right reasons. You have been inaccurate regarding Pettersson almost the whole way through, but have argued vehemently for those inaccurate positions.
That’s your problem, though. You, and one or two others , mistake my critique / analysis of the various evidence, as having an absolute or unwavering position notwithstanding the fact that I have confirmed my position to you and the others like a dozen times.

I can vehemently, as you say, debate the various evidence, or the conclusions some are drawing from the evidence, but that doesn’t mean you can strawman my global position on the matter which has been communicated to you many times.

Few are misrepresenting your statements. You're just too far gone to walk them back completely.
The record is clear. And you are literally strawmanning my position in almost every post you make. And I continually point this out, and you never even bother trying to refute it because it’s clear as day.
 
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I would be shocked if debridement was not required
I'd go the debridement rout if conservative rehab failed. Based on the reports and relative vagueness of his rehab, it just doesn't sound like appropriate strengthening and load acceptance/motor control stuff was done before he was back on the ice. I mean, he should have a patellar brace on at all times during games to help manage pain if it was really painful and dysfunctional right? I haven't heard of anything like this. I honestly think it's just lingering weakness and fear of movement/load than anything. Patellar debridement arthroscopic surgery doesn't seem convincing to me for full recovery, at least from where the literature is at right now.
 
Somebody at some point whether it’s the player, agent or management needs to talk at length and address this massive issue.

Watching him implode game after game is is ridiculous
Ryan Johnson is the AGM that runs abbotsford.
 

Hard to not draw a parallel.

Importantly, it directly contradicts the assertion that his previous slump was caused by injury which has been a popular assertion by those on here claiming his current slump is a result of injury.
It's probably both. You don't go from top 90% in burst speed to whatever 50% he's at right now. You don't drop something like 50% of one timer attempts if it's just confidence. Like, he's still able to stick handle in a phone booth and create space for his teammates. He's just not able to as effectively separate himself from checkers and simultaneously is lacking confidence in his shot.
 


The damage this is doing to the team, the fans, the brand and the player himself cannot be understated

Allvin must be fired.

JR and Allvin definitely deserve their blame. This is a major player evaluation failure.

Multiple times throughout his career Petey has disappeared for half a season or more due to minor ailments other players would be able to play through.
 
It's probably both. You don't go from top 90% in burst speed to whatever 50% he's at right now. You don't drop something like 50% of one timer attempts if it's just confidence. Like, he's still able to stick handle in a phone booth and create space for his teammates. He's just not able to as effectively separate himself from checkers and simultaneously is lacking confidence in his shot.

I would also say some stats are misleading like this shots on goal. It goes more to his accuracy as he is seemingly taking shots, he tried a couple in the third last night. It also goes to coaching. Myers has been leading the team in shots a few games, cause the plan of the team is to just put it to the point and shoot. It’s minor hockey.

Finally you had a game where he had no offensive zone starts.

So yes he needs to get more accurate no question what happened there. But I think a lot of the rest is coaching, at least for shots. Look at the rest of the team putting up ten shots a game.
 
It's probably both. You don't go from top 90% in burst speed to whatever 50% he's at right now. You don't drop something like 50% of one timer attempts if it's just confidence. Like, he's still able to stick handle in a phone booth and create space for his teammates. He's just not able to as effectively separate himself from checkers and simultaneously is lacking confidence in his shot.
Ya, my point wasn’t that this perfectly explains his current slump. My point was that the argument that his previous slump could be explained by injury seems to be a bad one. And during his previous slump he was skating poorly as well, and I have posted many eye witness HF contemporaneous accounts to this effect.

This is all important as it refutes the idea that because he’s skating poorly and slumping an injury must be causing it. Because this has already happened in the past in an eerily similar way, and by his own account, an injury wasn’t the cause for that past slump.

Of course this doesn’t mean an injury isn’t a factor here. Almost everyone recognizes that, I think.
 
I'd go the debridement rout if conservative rehab failed. Based on the reports and relative vagueness of his rehab, it just doesn't sound like appropriate strengthening and load acceptance/motor control stuff was done before he was back on the ice. I mean, he should have a patellar brace on at all times during games to help manage pain if it was really painful and dysfunctional right? I haven't heard of anything like this. I honestly think it's just lingering weakness and fear of movement/load than anything. Patellar debridement arthroscopic surgery doesn't seem convincing to me for full recovery, at least from where the literature is at right now.
If what you are saying is accurate, I believe it would require two things to be true

1. Petey played NHL hockey for three months with an inflamed knee tendon in the spring of 2024 yet somehow avoided microtears and resultant scarring and

2. A pro athlete with effectively unlimited resources - and with about four months off - failed to conduct a ~3 week rehab routine

I find the second unlikely but certainly possible. However I find the first to be unbelievable.

I would be shocked if scar tissue was not created during those three months of NHL hockey in spring 2024, leaving aside what further scar tissue has built up in the last five months of NHL hockey

What makes much more sense to me is that scar tissue inevitably built up in the spring of 2024, which means non-surgical rehab in the summer of 2024 was the wrong course of action, just as not immediately resting and restrengthening the knee in late January/early February 2024 (when it was first discovered) was the wrong course of action

And it follows from my reasoning that nonsurgical rehab in summer 2025 will also fail. Of course the damage is likely at the point that even with surgical debridement, too much of the tendon will be gone and Petey's knee will never be what it was

Basically, his potential was likely taken away from him when they failed to rest and restrengthen him in the first few weeks of February 2024.

And they signed him to a $96m contract at the end of what, that same month?

if that were an honest management group, they would come forward with a mea culpa

But if they were like me, they would deny anything was done wrong, and conduct a house media/company propaganda campaign assassinating his character, with no regard for the truth

I mean, that's just me
 
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Blaming Rutherford and Alvin is so ridiculous to me. Literally no one predicted a fall off this hard and to chalk it up to 'pro scouting failure' is such a lame duck take.

No one in this situation needs blame except Pettersson. He didn't prepare correctly both physically and mentally and his game has slipped to a point where it's unclear we'll ever see his potential. Truly sad.

It all feels so typical since we are Canucks fans. A truly catastrophic turn of fortune. This was a player that dazzled commentators woth his skill and iq. Now we have people making excuses about tendinitis - jfc.
 
// Now we have people making excuses about tendinitis - jfc.
I know right?

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Just watched the HNIC panel spend 10 minutes talking about Pettersson's lack of confidence and his poor decision making.

Those fools don't realize that he had a shortened training camp because he was resting from his tendonitis.

If only they knew this, they wouldn't be wasting time trying to figure out why he's been playing poorly.

Even McDavid would be playing like this if he had a shortened training camp.
The amount of excuses by the petey cult members is unbelievable

1. He's hurt
2. It's Miller
3. It's Tocchet
4. Well he WAS hurt and didn't train well
5. 1/2 through the season, no longer hurt - rinse and repeat the same excuses

notice a pattern? ZERO accountability on Petey...ZERO

unbelievable
 
Blaming Rutherford and Alvin is so ridiculous to me. Literally no one predicted a fall off this hard and to chalk it up to 'pro scouting failure' is such a lame duck take.

No one in this situation needs blame except Pettersson.
It’s completely reasonable for fans to expect management to deal with this issue. CBC, TSN, Sportsnet and all internet NHL personalities are talking about it at length day after day.

At some point management has to address the elephant in the room. The player is self imploding on the ice every night. This is what management is paid to do.
 
Blaming Rutherford and Alvin is so ridiculous to me. Literally no one predicted a fall off this hard and to chalk it up to 'pro scouting failure' is such a lame duck take.

No one in this situation needs blame except Pettersson. He didn't prepare correctly both physically and mentally and his game has slipped to a point where it's unclear we'll ever see his potential. Truly sad.

It all feels so typical since we are Canucks fans. A truly catastrophic turn of fortune. This was a player that dazzled commentators woth his skill and iq. Now we have people making excuses about tendinitis - jfc.

Management deserves blame as they have info we do not. We don’t have the same facts they do. Despite this, most here predicted the bad play of our defence.
 
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Blaming Rutherford and Alvin is so ridiculous to me. Literally no one predicted a fall off this hard and to chalk it up to 'pro scouting failure' is such a lame duck take.

No one in this situation needs blame except Pettersson. He didn't prepare correctly both physically and mentally and his game has slipped to a point where it's unclear we'll ever see his potential. Truly sad.

It all feels so typical since we are Canucks fans. A truly catastrophic turn of fortune. This was a player that dazzled commentators woth his skill and iq. Now we have people making excuses about tendinitis - jfc.

Not really… Pettersson has been know as an immature player for awhile now. He was already struggling before we signed him. They rushed him to sign that deal, if they waited until the offseason with how Pettersson played, it would’ve given us a lot more leverage. He’s even worse now, it’s wild how bad he is. Is he even an NHL player at this point?
 
Management deserves blame as they have info we do not. We don’t have the same facts they do. Despite this, most here predicted the bad play of our defence.

So you don't have the info or facts but it's reasonable to conclude this is Alvin's fault?

Easy to conclude the blame should be on Pettersson. Too many excuses.

Not really… Pettersson has been know as an immature player for awhile now. He was already struggling before we signed him. They rushed him to sign that deal, if they waited until the offseason with how Pettersson played, it would’ve given us a lot more leverage. He’s even worse now, it’s wild how bad he is. Is he even an NHL player at this point?

Again, just blaming someone other than Pettersson here is bizarre.

Not going further on this.
 
So you don't have the info or facts but it's reasonable to conclude this is Alvin's fault?

Easy to conclude the blame should be on Pettersson. Too many excuses.



Again, just blaming someone other than Pettersson here is bizarre.

Not going further on this.
No I blame Pettersson too! But management also has a part of the Canucks fall
 

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