LeBrun: Bringing in upper echelon goalie is "pretty big priority" for Leafs.

[lanceuppercut75]

Lanceuppercut75… curios why Binnington is not anywhere on your list?

From a Blues fan.

I don't think he's available. Blues have no reason to trade him, really, from a short term or mid term or long term POV, or cap structure reason, or basically any reason IMO. If we start hearing rumours that Blues are open to moving him, or Binnington wants out, or something, then yeah I'll change my tune.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

I don't agree with Varlamov he's a good goaltender if Treliving acquired him that Would be an upgrade.

I don't Lou moves him but if he's available Treliving should be calling.

If we acquire a half-decent goalie with a not-tiny cap hit with a contract longer than 2 years, it's going to create a log-jam starting in 2026 offseason of (new goalie) + Woll + Hildeby. I am willing to do that, sure, no issue really, but we should only do that IMO if the goalie we're adding is actually a real legit starter. Varlamov is currently a 1A or a 1B, we could argue which one, but I don't think he's a true #1 starter anymore, and I don't think he will be one in 2026 and 2027 when his contract is still going.

 

[Paulinbc]

Nucks will trade you Silovs for 2024 1st.

You're welcome.

I think id do that deal.

 

[seanlinden]

We're looking for a stud to make Woll the number 2
- If 3 or more years of term, Hildeby or Woll become trade pieces later
- If 1 or 2 years of term, we might move on to Woll Hildeby in 2026

If we don't get a stud, we can also go for a guy to tandem with Woll for 1 or 2 years and help us win, even if they guy isn't necessarily better than Woll or a long-term Leaf. Then Hildeby can step in to play with Woll in 2026 after the stop-gap we add is gone.

Basically, we only want to to block / log-jam Hildeby if we're adding a legit starter.

GOOD IDEA :
- Ullmark (his NTC = won't cost a lot to acquire)
- Saros (if he seems likely to extend)
- Markstrom

CONTROVERSIAL IDEA :
- John Gibson (recent play =risky but played for bad team)

OKAY IDEA:
- Husso (recent play = risky but contract + cost to acquire are good)
- Gustavsson (very good fit but possible MIN won't trade him)
- Vejmelka (if Utah doesn't ask for too much)
- Stuart Skinner (if EDM buyout Campbell + add stud goalie)
- Scott Wedgewood
- Cam Talbot
- Pheonix Copley

NOT A GREAT CHOICE BUT NOT STUPID EITHER :
- Jake Allen (not good enough)
- Laurent Brossoit (not good enough)
- Casey DeSmith (not good enough)
- Kaapo Kahkonen (not good enough)
- Daniel Vladar (not good enough)
- Vitek Venecek (not good enough)

BAD IDEA :
- Merzlikins (not a stud + contract + blocks Hildeby)
- Kuemper (not a stud + contract + blocks Hildeby)
- Korpisalo (not a stud + contract + blocks Hildeby)
- Sorokin (recent play + contract length = too risky)
- Jarry (recent play + contract length = too risky)
- Varlamov (not a stud, contract too long, blocks Hildeby)
- Anton Forsberg (not good enough, pure backup)
- Kevin Lankinen (not good enough, pure backup)
- Calvin Pickard (not good enough, pure backup)

TERRIBLE IDEA :
- Ilya Samsonov (we know it doesn't work)

I wouldn't be so "worried" about Varlamov having a 3rd year. It's $2.75m which is not a great deal of money, and probably something that can be shopped IF both Woll and Hildeby pan out.... obviously that's a BIG IF.

I'd go as far as saying that applies to any of the goalies that have 3 years left.

For the Leafs, they've gotta find the right guy -- somebody that they can get on a competitive goalie contract under $6m for at least 2 years. Somebody who can handle the pressure of playing in Toronto and being the workhorse.

For that reason, I'd put Saros in the bad idea category. He's likely looking at a $7m to $8m extension, and that's just not in line with what the vast majority of the goales in this league make, and would be a very difficult contract to move after completing only 1 year of it.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

If they can convince John to waive his NTC. Tavares, 1st and 2nd for Kadri and Markstrom

 

[KevinRedkey]

If we acquire a half-decent goalie with a not-tiny cap hit with a contract longer than 2 years, it's going to create a log-jam starting in 2026 offseason of (new goalie) + Woll + Hildeby. I am willing to do that, sure, no issue really, but we should only do that IMO if the goalie we're adding is actually a real legit starter. Varlamov is currently a 1A or a 1B, we could argue which one, but I don't think he's a true #1 starter anymore, and I don't think he will be one in 2026 and 2027 when his contract is still going.

Why are so many Leafs fans concerned with blocking Hildeby?

 

[JEI]

I don't think they want to spend a ton of money in net (I'm under the assumption Marner is still on the team and the forward core remains front loaded). They need it for defense. I imagine a goalie 5m or less?

Tre in his end of season presser pointed out Woll's injury plagued seasons. I think they want someone who can play 40-50 games without issue. I also imagine they want a shorter term deal goalie rather someone locked into term 3+years. They have faith in Woll's abilities, so I think they hope to make him the starter long-term, but that's up to how Woll handles the job. I think this is why they may end up bringing back Jones as a #3a until Hildeby proves otherwise. Jones has almost 500 NHL games of experience, he can be the emergency option veteran and if he falters go to a promising prospect in Hildeby who will have earned NHL opportunities by that time. He knows his role and is happy to play it seemingly. Keep in mind they also have Artur Akhtyamov under contract who is coming over to the Marlies so ice time between him and Hildeby will be interesting.

Majority of goalies for me are voodoo anyways. Try to find some consistency in the numbers, who can handle the spotlight, not handcuffed in contract, and hope they can perform well enough to give you a chance.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Why are so many Leafs fans concerned with blocking Hildeby?

If we bring in a real starter, then it's not really a problem. We don't want to be blocking a good goalie prospect for just another Samsonov / Matt Murray type though. "Real starter" or "Woll and Hildeby as a tandem battling each other" are the two scenarios we would consider a success by October 2026. We're trying to avoid anything outside of that. Also (like every other team) trying to avoid contract buyouts and avoid waiving players with non-tiny cap hits to bury them in the minors and waste cap space.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I wouldn't be so "worried" about Varlamov having a 3rd year. It's $2.75m which is not a great deal of money, and probably something that can be shopped IF both Woll and Hildeby pan out.... obviously that's a BIG IF.

I'd go as far as saying that applies to any of the goalies that have 3 years left.

For the Leafs, they've gotta find the right guy -- somebody that they can get on a competitive goalie contract under $6m for at least 2 years. Somebody who can handle the pressure of playing in Toronto and being the workhorse.

For that reason, I'd put Saros in the bad idea category. He's likely looking at a $7m to $8m extension, and that's just not in line with what the vast majority of the goales in this league make, and would be a very difficult contract to move after completing only 1 year of it.

Saros is only 29 he's got AT LEAST 7 more years of quality play left goalies tend to play at a high level for longer.

I wouldn't hesitate to go 7.5X7

Hell I'd be tempted to try and keep Marner AND acquire Saros because for all the talk that this group can't win, when has this group EVER had a top goalie?

You can't answer that because it hasn't.

It's had Jack f***ing Campbell a mentally weak who looked like he was going to cry every time he lost a game regardless of the game.

Iliya Samsonov who was even more mentally weak than Campbell which is saying A LOT

and then Freddy by far the best of the bunch but quit on the team, we know this because It's in the Amazon doc he claims he's hurt, they can't find the injury because it doesn't exist and he just doesn't play he straight up quit.

Saros would be a true top goalie.

How many times has goaltending blown games? to many

How many times has goaltending been carried to wins by the offense? to f***ing many.

You have to get a goaltender because you only have 1 under contract so you have no choice.

So do it right get this group a REAL goaltender.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If we acquire a half-decent goalie with a not-tiny cap hit with a contract longer than 2 years, it's going to create a log-jam starting in 2026 offseason of (new goalie) + Woll + Hildeby. I am willing to do that, sure, no issue really, but we should only do that IMO if the goalie we're adding is actually a real legit starter. Varlamov is currently a 1A or a 1B, we could argue which one, but I don't think he's a true #1 starter anymore, and I don't think he will be one in 2026 and 2027 when his contract is still going.

I couldn't care less if they block Hildeby, we aren't in development mode, as long as Matthews It's win NOW mode.

 

[seanlinden]

Saros is only 29 he's got AT LEAST 7 more years of quality play left goalies tend to play at a high level for longer.

I wouldn't hesitate to go 7.5X7

Hell I'd be tempted to try and keep Marner AND acquire Saros because for all the talk that this group can't win, when has this group EVER had a top goalie?

You can't answer that because it hasn't.

It's had Jack f***ing Campbell a mentally weak who looked like he was going to cry every time he lost a game regardless of the game.

Iliya Samsonov who was even more mentally weak than Campbell which is saying A LOT

and then Freddy by far the best of the bunch but quit on the team, we know this because It's in the Amazon doc he claims he's hurt, they can't find the injury because it doesn't exist and he just doesn't play he straight up quit.

Saros would be a true top goalie.

How many times has goaltending blown games? to many

How many times has goaltending been carried to wins by the offense? to f***ing many.

You have to get a goaltender because you only have 1 under contract so you have no choice.

So do it right get this group a REAL goaltender.

He might have 7 more years left. That isn't the concern. The problem is the eventual contract -- which I would bet is going to be $8m -- $2m more than all but 3-4 of the top guys, and virtually guaranteeing that at some point in a playoff season, there's going to be somebody that goes toe-to-toe with him making less than half of what he does.

Goaltending is an EXTREMELY fickle position. It has changed drastically from the early 2000s where there was a very clear pecking order year after year.

Saros this year was a .906 / 2.86 over 64 games. Other guys in a similar realm were Adin Hill, Ilya Sorokin, Logan Thompson, Connor Ingram, Stuart Skinner, Jake Oettenger, and Jacob Markstrom.

Sure, he was better last year positing a .919 / 2.69... but even Samsonov put u pa .919 / 2.33.

Only 1 of those guys makes more than $5m (Jacob Markstrom), and everyone is talking about retention to get him moved to a contender.

This group does need a real goaltender, but they need one that they won't have to pay $7m or $8m to.

Even Joseph Woll, obviously there's injury concerns, but his numbers were very similar to Saros and he makes $700k. Extending him could probably be done for $2m right now.

What the Leafs need is a guy to take the workload if he can't. Jacob Markstrom's a fit with retention. Cam Talbot would be a decent option as well.

What they don't need is to take the massive trade value that Mitch Marner holds, and put it towards a goalie that they should not be resigning. They've gotta be looking for a #2 C, a top pair right shot defenceman with size -- something that's a lot more difficult to get.

 

[seanlinden]

I couldn't care less if they block Hildeby, we aren't in development mode, as long as Matthews It's win NOW mode.

Think about it this way.

If the Leafs approached Joseph Woll in July about an extension, it would seem to me that they could probably get him to sign a 3 year, $2.5m deal.

That same Joseph Woll went toe-to-toe and beat Jeremy Swayman with the Leafs backs against the wall twice. You'd need a decent backup at say, $3m. Total spend on goaltending becomes $5.5m.

Saros' extension costs you $8m; and you still need a decent backup at $1.5m; total cost of goaltending is $9.5m.

That's $4m which could, and presumably would be spent on the 18 guys infront of him. That's the difference between Ryan O'Reilly and David Kampf with money to spare. That's the difference between Calle Jarnkrok and Adrian Kempe, again with money to spare.

Then there's also the opportunity cost... if you trade Marner for Saros plus less significant pieces, what could you have gotten for Marner with alternative deals?

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Markstrom may have been a 'workhorse', but he's far from being great. His career numbers have been average to mediocre outside of one season and even watching him live he doesn't really inspire me to believe that he's any better than Woll or perhaps even Samsonov when he played well in the last part of the season. I'd rather roll the dice on Woll, Hildeby and a cheap backup than waste capspace on Markstrom who doesn't really move the needle in net for the Leafs. He's the LAST goalie I'd want on the team here at his age and at his contract.

While I agree with what you said on Marky he's far to mentally fragile to ever take a team on a cup run. The running joke in Vancouver was you knew on the first shot of how the game would go and I've never seen a goalie give up multiple goals in succession on a regular basis or in the last minute of a game.

That being said there is no way in hell they can run with Woll and another rookie as the tandem, like zero chance. Woll has proven nothing and is injury prone and that logic is similar to nuck fans saying trade Demko because Silovs won five playoff games, it's crazy talk.

Brad needs to either pay the cost in picks or hope some GM with a #1 goalie, really loves Marner.

Look at the four remaining teams, three have a true #1 the other has #97 and #29 and are only still playing because the team they eliminated was without their #1.

Its crazy to read leaf fans thinking a 1st round pick in the 20's is too high a price to pay to finally get a real #1 goalie

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

He might have 7 more years left. That isn't the concern. The problem is the eventual contract -- which I would bet is going to be $8m -- $2m more than all but 3-4 of the top guys, and virtually guaranteeing that at some point in a playoff season, there's going to be somebody that goes toe-to-toe with him making less than half of what he does.

Goaltending is an EXTREMELY fickle position. It has changed drastically from the early 2000s where there was a very clear pecking order year after year.

Saros this year was a .906 / 2.86 over 64 games. Other guys in a similar realm were Adin Hill, Ilya Sorokin, Logan Thompson, Connor Ingram, Stuart Skinner, Jake Oettenger, and Jacob Markstrom.

Sure, he was better last year positing a .919 / 2.69... but even Samsonov put u pa .919 / 2.33.

Only 1 of those guys makes more than $5m (Jacob Markstrom), and everyone is talking about retention to get him moved to a contender.

This group does need a real goaltender, but they need one that they won't have to pay $7m or $8m to.

Even Joseph Woll, obviously there's injury concerns, but his numbers were very similar to Saros and he makes $700k. Extending him could probably be done for $2m right now.

What the Leafs need is a guy to take the workload if he can't. Jacob Markstrom's a fit with retention. Cam Talbot would be a decent option as well.

What they don't need is to take the massive trade value that Mitch Marner holds, and put it towards a goalie that they should not be resigning. They've gotta be looking for a #2 C, a top pair right shot defenceman with size -- something that's a lot more difficult to get.

Goaltending being fickle or voodoo is such a misnomer and usually applies to one hit wonders not actual true #1 goalies.
Sure like every position numbers might dip or rise season to season but at the end of the day the cream rises to the top and while having a stud back there on its own won't win you a cup it's probably the most important position in a vacuum.

Clearly the leafs are a lot further away than just a goalie but not getting one and hoping for a voodoo run from a rookie or a career mid goalie like Talbot makes absolutely no sense.

 

[seanlinden]

Goaltending being fickle or voodoo is such a misnomer and usually applies to one hit wonders not actual true #1 goalies.
Sure like every position numbers might dip or rise season to season but at the end of the day the cream rises to the top and while having a stud back there on its own won't win you a cup it's probably the most important position in a vacuum.

Clearly the leafs are a lot further away than just a goalie but not getting one and hoping for a voodoo run from a rookie or a career mid goalie like Talbot makes absolutely no sense.

Not really.

Paying a premium for goaltending only really guarantees you a "baseline" level of performance. Saros isn't likely to ever be a sub .900 golaie. It doesn't guarantee you the standout performance required to steal a series, nor do you need to spend that kind of money to get a standout performance.

However, when you have to beat 4 teams in the playoffs, you're almost certainly guaranteed to come accross 1, if not two of those "1 hit wonders" as you call them, likely being paid less than $4m.

Look at the 4 remaining teams and what they're paying their goalies. Oettenger makes $4m. Shesterkin makes $5.7m. Skinner makes $2.6m. Yes, Bob makes $10m, but he's the outlier. Generally, to get a good goalie for good money, you've gotta draft them or trade for them before they're proven.

It is the most important position, but it's also the one with the gretest potential for wastage given that only 1 goalie plays at a time.

The Leafs aren't going to be a contending team next year regardless of what they do. They have fresh raises to Matthews & Nylander, and a whole bunch of bad money in John Tavares. Their goal at this point has to be to "retool" with the vision of contending in 2025-26 and beyond. Both Talbot and Markstrom would be very reasonable candidates to do that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Think about it this way.

If the Leafs approached Joseph Woll in July about an extension, it would seem to me that they could probably get him to sign a 3 year, $2.5m deal.

That same Joseph Woll went toe-to-toe and beat Jeremy Swayman with the Leafs backs against the wall twice. You'd need a decent backup at say, $3m. Total spend on goaltending becomes $5.5m.

Saros' extension costs you $8m; and you still need a decent backup at $1.5m; total cost of goaltending is $9.5m.

That's $4m which could, and presumably would be spent on the 18 guys infront of him. That's the difference between Ryan O'Reilly and David Kampf with money to spare. That's the difference between Calle Jarnkrok and Adrian Kempe, again with money to spare.

Then there's also the opportunity cost... if you trade Marner for Saros plus less significant pieces, what could you have gotten for Marner with alternative deals?

Look I acknowledge Joseph Woll's talent, you have never seen me say anything about his talent It's clearly there.

He did go toe to toe with Jeremy Swayman, and he did beat Jeremy Swayman twice and you know what? It's COMPLETELY irrelevant because when he was needed most he wasn't there because he got hurt trying to make a save he he literally he did not need to make taking himself out of game 7.

Not to mention he missed 3 months of the year with an injury that was caused by one of the softest shots you will ever see.

Go get Ullmark, Markstrom, Saros, Binnington, hell even Gibson or Merzlikns I think Gibson and Merzlikns NEED to get off of Columbus and the Ducks, I think they are good goalies on very VERY bad teams.

Go get a REAL goaltender and no that is NOT Cam Talbot

 

[finnishflash13]

Doubt it, and I'd be hesitant to do it anyway even if he is an upgrade because he had some pretty major health issues with blood clots.



I don't think he's untouchable, the Blues look to be trending down.

trending down? they're in a retool...

 

[seanlinden]

Look I acknowledge Joseph Woll's talent, you have never seen me say anything about his talent It's clearly there.

He did go toe to toe with Jeremy Swayman, and he did beat Jeremy Swayman twice and you know what? It's COMPLETELY irrelevant because when he was needed most he wasn't there because he got hurt trying to make a save he he literally he did not need to make taking himself out of game 7.

Not to mention he missed 3 months of the year with an injury that was caused by one of the softest shots you will ever see.

Go get Ullmark, Markstrom, Saros, Binnington, hell even Gibson or Merzlikns I think Gibson and Merzlikns NEED to get off of Columbus and the Ducks, I think they are good goalies on very VERY bad teams.

Go get a REAL goaltender and no that is NOT Cam Talbot

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely on board with going out and getting one of the bolded, fully understanding that that their cap hits are all $6m or less, and in the case of Gibson, likely to come with retention.

However, paying $8m for a goalie just doesn't make any sense; and that's what Saros is going to cost, while I cannot see any reasonable way that Ullmark ends up in Toronto.

That being said, Cam Talbot put up a 2.48 / .913 in 54 games this year. The previous year in Ottawa was a dud at .898 / 2.93 in 36 GP, but before that he was basically .913/ 2.70 over 2 seasons in Minnesota averaging low 40s in games played.

With Woll and Hildeby in the mix, Talbot is a really good low-risk, low-cost acquisition.

 

[McHelpus]

Trade for Markstrom?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Trade for Markstrom?

I'd be all for that depending on cost

 

[Dog]

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely on board with going out and getting one of the bolded, fully understanding that that their cap hits are all $6m or less, and in the case of Gibson, likely to come with retention.

However, paying $8m for a goalie just doesn't make any sense; and that's what Saros is going to cost, while I cannot see any reasonable way that Ullmark ends up in Toronto.

That being said, Cam Talbot put up a 2.48 / .913 in 54 games this year. The previous year in Ottawa was a dud at .898 / 2.93 in 36 GP, but before that he was basically .913/ 2.70 over 2 seasons in Minnesota averaging low 40s in games played.

With Woll and Hildeby in the mix, Talbot is a really good low-risk, low-cost acquisition.

Pay Talbot 3-4 million a year and max two years. Gives time for Woll+Hildeby it's good option.

 

[seanlinden]

Pay Talbot 3-4 million a year and max two years. Gives time for Woll+Hildeby it's good option.

I don't know if you'd even need to pay him that much. Coming off a $2m deal. Yeah he was great this year, but there's quite a few goalies out there and not exactly a ton of teams looking for one... especially contenders.

The Kings I wouldn't be suprised to let him walk and sign Ilya Samsonov, thinking he might grow into the legit #1 under a little less pressure and scrutiny.

Talbot has 10 years in the league and has not won a Stanley Cup... assuming New Jersey gets Markstrom or Saros or Ullmark, where's he realisitically gonna go?

 

[GQS]

That being said there is no way in hell they can run with Woll and another rookie as the tandem, like zero chance. Woll has proven nothing and is injury prone and that logic is similar to nuck fans saying trade Demko because Silovs won five playoff games, it's crazy talk.

Brad needs to either pay the cost in picks or hope some GM with a #1 goalie, really loves Marner.

Look at the four remaining teams, three have a true #1 the other has #97 and #29 and are only still playing because the team they eliminated was without their #1.

Its crazy to read leaf fans thinking a 1st round pick in the 20's is too high a price to pay to finally get a real #1 goalie

I know its unlikely that they'll hand over the reins to Woll only, but as crazy as it sounds I think they should do it. Woll may only have a few NHL games under his belt, but he's turning 26 before the season starts and he looks to be pretty mature and seemingly ready to take on a bigger role. Sucks that he got injured last season for a long period of time because he was playing pretty well before his injury and that could've been his audition for next season for the number one job.

Regardless I think its time to find out if he can be a good NHL goalie or more and while its somewhat risky, why not take off the training wheels and do it now? If Woll really does poorly then let Hildeby have a stretch of games and if he doesn't look good then go out and get a goalie at the deadline if you want. I just think its time to see what our goalie prospects can do and find out if they're legit the real deal or not and then go from there. I don't want some vet goalie playing most of the games while our younger guys keep waiting in the wings for their chance as they get increasingly older and become 'vets' themselves.

Also next season is a good time to save money on goaltending if you can and spend that money elsewhere and then when Tavares' contract comes off the books you'll have more money to do whatever you want the season after.

 

[seanlinden]

Why are so many Leafs fans concerned with blocking Hildeby?

Because he's 6'7; 22 years old, and was probably the 6th or 7th best goailie in the AHL last year, despite being a rookie to North American ice.

People view Yaroslav Askarov as a future elite goaltender, and they may very well be right on that, but Hildeby was basically as good as he was this year, with less experience.

Obviously still a long way to go for both goaltenders, but there's a lot of things to like about Hildeby's game.

 

[Em etah Eh]

trending down? they're in a retool...

As a blues fan I’d say trending down is pretty accurate. We are going to be average to bad for the next 3 seasons. Ownership won’t throw in the towel though so we are in a meh state.