Brian Boyle

[Blue Blooded]

The problem with the perception of Boyle is what I'd like to call "the Boyle factor".

Granted, Brian doesn't have the best hands or offensive instincts. But I'd say the most significant factor that causes Boyle to neuter the production of his linemates is situational usage.

Torts loves to use Boyle in defensive situations, and his Off Zone Start % is a very low 37.7%. Hagelin was scoring at a very good pace at ES and had an OZS% of ~55-60% while leading the team in Corsi Rel. before being put with Boyle, it has now declined to 49.1 while his Corsi Rel. has dropped from ~18 to 12.

It is just a fact that whatever line Boyle is on will struggle to score consistently due to starting out in their own end most of the time.

I'd put him on LW with defensive FO duties on a line with Brass and Cally who both score most of their points on the PP and aren't consistent offensive threats at ES. This allows Hagelin who used to be one of our top ES scorers to be put back into an offensive role, either with Step and Nash, or with Richards and Clowe.

Zucc-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-Clowe
Boyle-Brassard-Callahan
Pyatt-Powe-Asham

 

[NYRKindms]

"#NYR practice lines: Nash-Stepan-Callahan (same), Clowe-Richards-Boyle, Hagelin-Brassard-Zuccarello, Pyatt-Powe-Asham (same).

Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord 4m

So Boyle and Zuccarello flip spots on practice lines. All eight defensemen on ice along with two goalies. Full practice after team photo."

Now I just thinks Torts is trolling us.

 

[Trxjw]

Torts is keeping the slow players on a line together.

 

[SA16]

I mean between seasons. How many player, have we got left in our bottom 6 since two seasons ago? Or one season ago? Even if you include players we traded away this season, the answer is still Brian Boyle. Hagelin occasionally. Why? Because he's doing a solid job at a reasonable price (slightly high). Simple as that. If replacing him was that simple, how come we traded away/waived/sent down Rupp, Halpern, Ferreiro, Haley, Fedotenko, Mitchell, Prust etc...either not good enough or because they wanted too much money..

Kreider and Miller wasn't given the opportunity? They where given all the time in the world, yet they did not produce. Should we put Kreider with Nash and Stepan for him to produce and contribute? If that what it takes to get Kreider going he has no business in the NHL. And while Boyle doesn't provide point wise, he isn't a defensive liability.

My point is; it's not as simple as just replace through free agency.

For all of the guys you mentioned either their contracts ran out, they were on 2-way deals, or were completely ineffective and gotten rid of (Rupp..halpern though I don't think he was so bad). Boyle had a fluky 20 goal year and was resigned to a 3 year deal which is why he is here. Boyle isn't an ineffective player. He's good in his role. Just when you try and put him in other roles at all comes crashing now (ex. having him listed with clowe and richards for tomorrows game. Now I doubt that line will stay together but if we imagine it does ans is a 2nd line thas an absurd misuse of his abilities. He';s supposed to be a good defensive player - playing him with richards is going to simulatenously hurt that lines offense and cause us to lack a defensive presence we can use later.

 

[Bardof425*]

I mean between seasons. How many player, have we got left in our bottom 6 since two seasons ago? Or one season ago? Even if you include players we traded away this season, the answer is still Brian Boyle. Hagelin occasionally. Why? Because he's doing a solid job at a reasonable price (slightly high). Simple as that. If replacing him was that simple, how come we traded away/waived/sent down Rupp, Halpern, Ferreiro, Haley, Fedotenko, Mitchell, Prust etc...either not good enough or because they wanted too much money..

Kreider and Miller wasn't given the opportunity? They where given all the time in the world, yet they did not produce. Should we put Kreider with Nash and Stepan for him to produce and contribute? If that what it takes to get Kreider going he has no business in the NHL. And while Boyle doesn't provide point wise, he isn't a defensive liability.

My point is; it's not as simple as just replace through free agency.

The simple answer to all of this is TORTS and the Cap. What he values in a hockey player is different than what many of us value and so BB remains and others have not. He sees things on the defensive side of the puck that BB allegedly does that I contend are very generous. I go to more than half of the home games and although Brian wins his draws and blocks his share of shots, he fails to possess the puck, pass the puck or shoot the puck and these deficiencies (outside of shooting) are in all three zones. His lack of puck skills often lead to us being trapped in our zone for long stretches; this is not good defense.

Of course there is no specific stat for this assertion so take it anyway you want. The great defensive forwards in this league are not just players who block pucks; they are players who possess the puck and rescue the team from offensive pressure. He cannot do that well enough.

So, he is good (not great) on the PK. He is average defensively mostly because of his wingspan and effort. His positioning leaves alot to be desired and his skating is not good. And offensively; that simply offensive.

4th liner.

 

[Thirty One]

Of course there is no specific stat for this assertion so take it anyway you want. The great defensive forwards in this league are not just players who block pucks; they are players who possess the puck and rescue the team from offensive pressure. He cannot do that well enough.

Because there are no stats that measure puck possession....

 

[Bardof425*]

Because there are no stats that measure puck possession....

None that are nuanced enough to be of any value IMHO. You disagree?

 

[Thirty One]

None that are nuanced enough to be of any value IMHO. You disagree?

Strongly.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Strongly.

Bard's warped opinion/eyesight is stronger than any statistic.

 

[Bardof425*]

Bard's warped opinion/eyesight is stronger than any statistic.

Does holding the puck for 5 seconds along the boards and then losing it while moving toward the blue line which leads to a 3 on 2 the other way which leads to a goal (worst +- on the team) provide more value than holding the puck for a second and a half before shooting and scoring? Seriously, are you going to tell me that the pointless time BB spends along the boards before he inevitably loses the puck without so much as making a pass or shot is helpful? Who's got the warped eyes? You, like Torts will overlook all of Brian's faults to try and make him appear to be something he's just not; a top 9 player. Wake the **** up!

 

[Thirty One]

This situation:

holding the puck for 5 seconds along the boards and then losing it while moving toward the blue line which leads to a 3 on 2 the other way which leads to a goal

would result in a -1 in Corsi.

This situation:

holding the puck for a second and a half before shooting and scoring?

would result in a +1 in Corsi.

 

[Bardof425*]

This situation:

would result in a -1 in Corsi.

This situation:

would result in a +1 in Corsi.

Corsi this, Corsi that. Not buying it.

 

[Thirty One]

Corsi this, Corsi that. Not buying it.

How have you concluded you don't buy Corsi, if you have shown you don't understand it at all?

 

[NYRKindms]

How have you concluded you don't buy Corsi, if you have shown you don't understand it at all?

"The numbers also illustrate how much Brian Boyle’s role with the team has diminished. Last season, he had a .446 Corsi Rel QoC. This season, he’s down to -.186, which shows an extreme drop in Torts’ confidence in his shutdown center. Just goes to show you that last year’s metrics do not always apply to the current situation. Boyle is a prime example."

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I have absolutely no idea what any of these stats mean.

My opinion on Boyle remains unaffected.

 

[Thirty One]

"The numbers also illustrate how much Brian Boyle’s role with the team has diminished. Last season, he had a .446 Corsi Rel QoC. This season, he’s down to -.186, which shows an extreme drop in Torts’ confidence in his shutdown center. Just goes to show you that last year’s metrics do not always apply to the current situation. Boyle is a prime example."

Where is that quote from?

How would that show Torts' confidence in him has dropped? It shows he's been worse than last year, which is obvious.

 

[NYRKindms]

Where is that quote from?

How would that show Torts' confidence in him has dropped? It shows he's been worse than last year, which is obvious.

http://www.blueseatblogs.com/2013/04/06/metrics-we-use-corsi-rel-qoc/

to be honest I don't really follow corsi. I just googled Boyle and corsi and that was the 2nd link. Thought it was interesting.

 

[Rangers ftw]

For all of the guys you mentioned either their contracts ran out, they were on 2-way deals, or were completely ineffective and gotten rid of (Rupp..halpern though I don't think he was so bad). Boyle had a fluky 20 goal year and was resigned to a 3 year deal which is why he is here. Boyle isn't an ineffective player. He's good in his role. Just when you try and put him in other roles at all comes crashing now (ex. having him listed with clowe and richards for tomorrows game. Now I doubt that line will stay together but if we imagine it does ans is a 2nd line thas an absurd misuse of his abilities. He';s supposed to be a good defensive player - playing him with richards is going to simulatenously hurt that lines offense and cause us to lack a defensive presence we can use later.

Yeah, and that was kind a much my point, it ain't that easy to just replace bottom 6 through free agency?!

OT: Hagelin better keep his eyes open for passes when playing on a line with Brassard and Zucc. If that's what the lines are gonna look like.

 

[Thirty One]

http://www.blueseatblogs.com/2013/04/06/metrics-we-use-corsi-rel-qoc/

to be honest I don't really follow corsi. I just googled Boyle and corsi and that was the 2nd link. Thought it was interesting.

Actually, the error is mine. Corsi Rel QoC measures the quality of competition based on opponent's Corsi Relative. Should totally be called QoC - Corsi Rel.

 

[Bardof425*]

How have you concluded you don't buy Corsi, if you have shown you don't understand it at all?

I understand that a missed shot (which often lead to a change of possession or a clear are a positive event. That's all i need to know to find it very questionable.

 

[Thirty One]

I understand that a missed shot (which often lead to a change of possession or a clear are a positive event. That's all i need to know to find it very questionable.

If possession does change that will be reflected in the numbers...

 

[SA16]

Yeah, and that was kind a much my point, it ain't that easy to just replace bottom 6 through free agency?!

OT: Hagelin better keep his eyes open for passes when playing on a line with Brassard and Zucc. If that's what the lines are gonna look like.

When they leave us they sign with other teams...as free agents. So yea they can be replaced via free agency.

 

[SA16]

I understand that a missed shot (which often lead to a change of possession or a clear are a positive event. That's all i need to know to find it very questionable.

That's not what it's measuring. It's working backwards by saying "Given this team took a shot at the net, even though they missed, they have had the puck and had an opportunity to do something offensive)

 

[NYR510]

ouch

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Had himself another good game yesterday.