Value of: Brett Pesce

[TML1967]

Brett Pesce is 3rd among Canes defensemen in toi/gp.

Your proposal was bad, just move on and don’t make yourself look worse, unless that’s what you want.

So if the Leafs and Canes do want to talk a deal around Nylander and Pesce as the main pieces, what would the adds be? Pesce seems to be a bit more burried on the third pair than Nylander is as Matthews defector winger (not saying Pesce us a 3D, I think on the Leafs he would be a solid #2/3 beside Reilly)

Id love to see Gauthier come from Carolina and add in a defensive prospect of a similar ilk from the Leafs.
Maybe someone like Durzi? RHD who was just taken in the 2nd round.

So Nylander+Durzi for Pesce and Gauthier?

 

[KILLger]

Canes have NO need for dman prospects (or forwards).

Pesce is on the 3rd D pairing but still plays the 4th most minutes head-to-head with Hamilton who's #3 (with an average of 1 second more per game).

No adds. One on one hockey deal or no deal.

 

[spockBokk]

No adds. One on one hockey deal or no deal.

This.

 

[MinJaBen]

If Carolina were will

I like Nylander for Pesce because of the cap-swing (the add should just be more cap space). The Canes also have virtually zero chance of reaching the cap-ceiling next year.

So this deal makes sense in theory:

TO CAROLINA:

1. Nylander (assume $6,600,000 x 6 years)
2. Nielsen (I'd offer a better prospect if necessary)
3. Timashov (I'd offer a better prospect if necessary)
4. 2019 4th (STL via Soshnikov)

TO TORONTO:

1. Pesce ($2,000,000 retained - His cap hit would = $2,025,000 x 5 years)
2. Marleau Buyout Facilitation (as per below)

• Marleau is traded to Carolina next summer.
• Carolina immediately buys Marleau out.
• The Leafs immediately re-sign Marleau.
• Marleau never actually leaves Toronto.
• Cost to Carolina = $3,800,000 real dollars & $6,250,000 cap-space (for 1-year only).
• If Toronto signs Marleau for the league minimum he will still make $300,000 extra.

OUTCOME:

• Carolina will still be $5-10 million under the cap in 2019-20 (after re-signings).
  
• After 2019-20, Carolina will only be left with Pesce's $2,000,000 retained.
• The Leafs would have about $10,000,000 more cap space in 2019-20.
• The only change to Toronto's roster would be Nylander for Pesce.
• This would provide enough cap space for the Leafs to pursue 1 or 2 UFA's like:
• FWD: Artemi Panarin, Mark Stone, Jakob Silfverberg, etc.
• DEF: Tyler Myers, Anton Stralman, Jan Rutta, etc.

And potentially end up with roster that looks like:

Panarin - Matthews - Kappy (23 million)
Hyman - Tavares - Marner (21 million)
Marleau - Kadri - Johnson (7.0 million)
Leivo - Lindholm - Brown (4.0 million)
Grundy - Gauthier - Engvall (1.0 million)
---------
Rielly - Pesce (7.0 million)
Dermott - Stralman (4.0 million)
Borgman - Zaitsev (5.5 million)
Rosen - Liljegren (1.5 million)
----------
Anderson (5.0 million)
Sparks (1.0 million)

TOTAL (23 PLAYERS) = $80,000,000
​

If the Canes were willing to spend that kind of money on Nylander, the’d probably be more willing to just offer sheet Matthews next year @ $14M for 7 and give you four firsts.

 

[coopooter]

Sure we want a RD.

No one's desperate for PESCE though.

He's a 3rd pair RD at the moment.

Remember that.

3rd pairing D does not have the third highest EV TOI on the team and 3 seconds behind the 3rd total TOI per game. Just because the Canes have the luxury of rolling 3 d pairings does not make him a 3 RD. He is 1 second Total Time on Ice behind Dougie per game and Faulk is a minute ahead which is related to the canes having a lot more pp time than pk time so far.
Remember that!!!

 

[Tryamw]

3rd pairing D does not have the third highest EV TOI on the team and 3 seconds behind the 3rd total TOI per game. Just because the Canes have the luxury of rolling 3 d pairings does not make him a 3 RD. He is 1 second Total Time on Ice behind Dougie per game and Faulk is a minute ahead which is related to the canes having a lot more pp time than pk time so far.
Remember that!!!

No one likes Facts... :grin

 

[drewjenks]

If Carolina were will

If the Canes were willing to spend that kind of money on Nylander, the’d probably be more willing to just offer sheet Matthews next year @ $14M for 7 and give you four firsts.

So they'd want to give up FOUR 1st round picks + Svechnikov + Necas + Bean

Just to get Matthews at $14,000,000 ?

LMAO

You don't think there's going to be an open season on your RFA's after that?

 

[drewjenks]

Brett Pesce is 3rd among Canes defensemen in toi/gp.

Your proposal was bad, just move on and don’t make yourself look worse, unless that’s what you want.

You haven't said why though?

 

[drewjenks]

If Carolina is willing to retain 2 mil aav on Pesce's contract for 5 years at 10 mil total plus 4 mil on a Marleau buyout, why not take that 14 mil, add it to Nylanders contract, then offer sheet him at 8.2 mil aav? That way they keep Pesce while adding Nylander. I think Carolina would risk the draft picks if they could keep Pesce on his great deal.

Because they don't get Nylander at 8.2.....

Toronto would just match to send a message & trade him at the end of the year.

Then Svechnikov & Necas would get offer sheeted.

Sounds like nothing but pain and suffering to me.

 

[Tit]

Canes have NO need for dman prospects (or forwards).

Pesce is on the 3rd D pairing but still plays the 4th most minutes head-to-head with Hamilton who's #3 (with an average of 1 second more per game).

No adds. One on one hockey deal or no deal.

Honestly I'd do Nylander straight up.
Some leaf fans might not, some canes fans might not.
But I think it's fair if you factor in the contract requirements.
Nylander might be more valuable but the leafs need the cap allocated differently. They can't have 38M for 4 forwards.

 

[Fogelhund]

Because they don't get Nylander at 8.2.....

Toronto would just match to send a message & trade him at the end of the year.

Then Svechnikov & Necas would get offer sheeted.

Sounds like nothing but pain and suffering to me.

By whom?

Please show, when teams introduced offer sheets in the past, how their RFA's the following years were targeted due to this.

 

[MinJaBen]

So they'd want to give up FOUR 1st round picks + Svechnikov + Necas + Bean

Just to get Matthews at $14,000,000 ?

LMAO

You don't think there's going to be an open season on your RFA's after that?

How is Svech and Necas and Bean something we'd be giving up to Toronto? I'm assuming because you think there would be retaliatory offersheets made to them. Well, go ahead. There are few players in the league really worth an offersheet that wouldn't/couldn't be matched by the current club. I think Matthews is clearly one of them. Svech, maybe eventually but not yet. Necas and Bean...not likely. So if the Leafs want to offersheet them to something that is not worth it for the Canes to match them, go ahead. Also, as I'm sure you are aware, offersheets require the player not to be under contract. The best defense is just to sign them early before they get there, something Carolina could do just like the Leafs can and are trying to do with Matthews per the latest news I've seen. Hopefully for your team there hasn't been any bad blood spilled with the JT signing and the Nylander/Shaniplan fun, and Matthews is chomping at the bit to get a deal done.

 

[drewjenks]

How is Svech and Necas and Bean something we'd be giving up to Toronto? I'm assuming because you think there would be retaliatory offersheets made to them. Well, go ahead. There are few players in the league really worth an offersheet that wouldn't/couldn't be matched by the current club. I think Matthews is clearly one of them. Svech, maybe eventually but not yet. Necas and Bean...not likely. So if the Leafs want to offersheet them to something that is not worth it for the Canes to match them, go ahead. Also, as I'm sure you are aware, offersheets require the player not to be under contract. The best defense is just to sign them early before they get there, something Carolina could do just like the Leafs can and are trying to do with Matthews per the latest news I've seen. Hopefully for your team there hasn't been any bad blood spilled with the JT signing and the Nylander/Shaniplan fun, and Matthews is chomping at the bit to get a deal done.

Exactly....good luck over-paying all your good players & keeping a team together.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You haven't said why though?

Some things are obvious. And others have told you why and you don’t get it.

 

[drewjenks]

By whom?

Please show, when teams introduced offer sheets in the past, how their RFA's the following years were targeted due to this.

Toronto

Good luck over-paying.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Exactly....good luck over-paying all your good players & keeping a team together.

Yes indeed. Good luck.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Canes have NO need for dman prospects (or forwards).

Pesce is on the 3rd D pairing but still plays the 4th most minutes head-to-head with Hamilton who's #3 (with an average of 1 second more per game).

No adds. One on one hockey deal or no deal.

Deal.

 

[Addison Rae]

Sure we want a RD.

No one's desperate for PESCE though.

He's a 3rd pair RD at the moment.

Remember that.

Guess Kadri's just a 3rd line centre, I'll trade you 1st line winger Antoine Roussel for him.

 

[Fogelhund]

Toronto

Good luck over-paying.

Ya, Toronto tight on the cap, are going to off sheet... LOL

and where exactly are the examples of this happening in the past, like I asked? No evidence? Exactly as I thought.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Then Svechnikov & Necas would get offer sheeted.

With what cap space? The entire reason Nylander and the Leafs can't come together is because of the upcoming cap crunch and asset return crunch (ie spending 38 mil on 4 forwards when you have one good defenseman).

Sides which, this doesn't happen. Carolina offersheeted Fedorov with a massive bonus if they made the Conference Finals, and what did Detroit do...?

 

[Fogelhund]

Pesce to Toronto would be great for Toronto... Value arguments aside, over who might need to add....

At this point, I fail to see why Carolina would make the deal.

Top 10 in the league in scoring... so it isn't as if they are desperate to add more offense.
Leading their division in points.

If they were a team struggling to score, or were in need of a change, because they were struggling, then perhaps they'd be looking to shake things up... but they aren't.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Carolina isn't going to offer sheet Nylander, but it won't be a result of a fear of retaliation. It will be a result of self-interest; Carolina making the offer that would make Dubas think about not matching (~$8 mil and a 5 year term that takes him straight to free agency) raises the bar on future extensions for the team's soon-to-be RFAs. If Nylander gets that type of contract, is Teravainen taking less, after outscoring him last season? What's Aho worth over a max term? $9 mil?

No one is afraid of the big bad Maple Leafs in this regard.

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Canes have NO need for dman prospects (or forwards).

Pesce is on the 3rd D pairing but still plays the 4th most minutes head-to-head with Hamilton who's #3 (with an average of 1 second more per game).

No adds. One on one hockey deal or no deal.

No deal. Hall for Larsson 2.0

 

[NotOpie]

No deal. Hall for Larsson 2.0

....except in this instance Pesce plays the role of Hall.

 

[BAM]

....except in this instance Pesce plays the role of Hall.

Nope, he's a 2 or 3 d-man, like Larsson is when he's playing at his best.