Value of: Brent Burns and Vlasic at the draft

[mouser]

It just doesn’t make sense to give up two first rounders that are probably going to be top 10 especially in a draft like the 23 draft.

Agreed. Also doesn't make sense for another team to take on that roughly $14m in dead money without huge assets being tagged on.

 

[Gecklund]

Agreed. Also doesn't make sense for another team to take on that roughly $14m in dead money without huge assets being tagged on.

I mean I agree with that too but there’s another options there which is us buying him out.

 

[TotalHomer]

I mean I agree with that too but there’s another options there which is us buying him out.

That's the only realistic option.

 

[Sysreq]

Burns to Dallas to replace Klingberg. Probably taking Bishop and a 1st back.

 

[blankall]

I could see Burns being moved to a non-cap team. He's owed $6.5, $5, and $5 million, in actual cash, on his last 3 years, and still has a lot to contribute. It'd be more like a favor to SJ, as opposed to SJ trading a valuable asset though.

Vlassic is a much worse contract though. He's clearly lost a step, and is signed multiple years. No one is taking that contract.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Do you think the Sharks would be open to trading either of their high profile dmen at the draft? For a re-tooling club that's not expected to win now, it makes no sense to have 3 high profile dmen eating up that much cap. They would get pretty good returns for either dman. I could see the Jets having interest in Brent Burns.

Umm…

… You think anybody’s giving assets for either?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

San Jose should just buy out Vlasic. Sharks can save more than $12m in cap space over the next 4 years, and in the 4 years where they don't get cap savings the buy-out figure is not that bad: $1,687,500m. Not great, but it can be swallowed, especially considering they get far more in cap savings in the previous 4 years.

Waiting another year or two doesn't improve the savings or the penalties that much, so just bite the bullet and do it this summer.

Burns can probably be traded, but would require retention, like OEL. Unlike OEL, he's still productive offensively. He'd probably be better with a quality defensive D-man to back him up. He only has 3 years left on his contract, so that also has value.

Carolina was interested in Klingberg, so they could be one team interested in Burns with some retention, and they have a good stable of prospects too.

I do think Burns has value, but would require $1m-$1,25m of retention, which also isn't horrible considering the cap savings SJ would receive.

Depends on what the team's actual goals are. From the sounds of it, they want to compete so I don't see them moving Burns. Their competitive desire may get them to buy out Vlasic this summer and use the savings on a replacement player and help up front but they don't want to do it at the expense of keeping Timo Meier after next season when his contract is up and they need to prepare themselves for a 10 mil cap figure if he plays hardball. Their best bet as it relates to competitive balance is to let Vlasic play one more season across Merkley then buy him out to use that savings on Meier's extension. If they use that savings this offseason, they limit their cap space for next offseason.

Personally, I want a rebuild but I don't think that's happening. More retooling at the depth levels and hoping their young talent fills the gaps.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Umm…

… You think anybody’s giving assets for either?

Someone will definitely give an asset for Burns along with a cap dump.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Someone will definitely give an asset for Burns along with a cap dump.

He’s 37 years old with an $8M cap hit until he’s 40.

There may be a GM stupid enough to risk that, but he won’t be paying much of anything.

 

[one2gamble]

Burns still has value in the right environment.

Vlasic, you would have to package a cost controlled top line forward or top pairing D with to start a conversation lol

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He’s 37 years old with an $8M cap hit until he’s 40.

There may be a GM stupid enough to risk that, but he won’t be paying much of anything.

Retain 1.5 mil and send back a contract around 3 or 4 mil and there would be a late 1st/early 2nd round pick level asset being returned. He's still a top pairing level defenseman. Competing teams will take that chance if he becomes available to them. I sincerely doubt Burns is even being made available by the team at this stage though.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

I haven't paid much attention to Burns this year. How has his play been? Is he still some-what solid two way or is he mainly an offensive d-man with subpar D?

If he can still play top 4, all situations, from the Oilers, I'd look at Burns w/retention for Barrie+

 

[Cas]

I haven't paid much attention to Burns this year. How has his play been? Is he still some-what solid two way or is he mainly an offensive d-man with subpar D?

If he can still play top 4, all situations, from the Oilers, I'd look at Burns w/retention for Barrie+

Frankly, I think he's a lazy, sloppy defenseman whose shot is not what it once was, doesn't skate like he needs to, ices the puck with regularity, makes dumb decisions with the puck, etc.

However, he does put up points. Some of that is ice time, but he is producing and is facing the toughest competition (which makes his defense look worse than it could be). He'd be a worthwhile addition to any team, he's simply playing in a suboptimal role for his skillet and is a little overpaid (probably worth more like $6M), and is still clearly a physical specimen who should have no trouble producing for the remainder of his contract. He just needs to be a #3 with a good defensive partner.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Retain 1.5 mil and send back a contract around 3 or 4 mil and there would be a late 1st/early 2nd round pick level asset being returned. He's still a top pairing level defenseman. Competing teams will take that chance if he becomes available to them. I sincerely doubt Burns is even being made available by the team at this stage though.

The $3M - $4M contract would have to be the same length for a virtually useless player.

The cap hit is rough, but the term, relative to his age, is the true value killer.

 

[Djp]

Seems like a change-of-scenary trade, a bad contract swap, is the best option for Vlasic. Skinner, Seguin, Price...

skinner has actual value. He’s 27g 29a in 65 g.

buffalo doesnt need an anchor

 

[Russian Factor]

What would it take for say the Yotes to take on Vlasic? What kinda assets we talking here. Hes arguably the worst contract in the NHL right now when you consider age, AAV, but especially his current on ice value. Guy is just incredibly, incredibly cooked (extra crispy). Curious to see what people think is the going rate for that level of cap dump

Edit: read a bit more of the thread and this was more or less answered earlier. As you were folks

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

The biggest issue re: Burns is that he can effectively block a trade out. Select Tampa, Washington and Edmonton as his 3 teams he'd accept a trade to and yup, that's a 32 team NTC.

If he will waive.....

Zaitsev + +
for
Burns

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

skinner has actual value. He’s 27g 29a in 65 g.

buffalo doesnt need an anchor

Skinner does not have value at his best for 9m, and certainly doesn't have value as a guy who scored 37pts in 112 games in the two seasons before this one.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The $3M - $4M contract would have to be the same length for a virtually useless player.

The cap hit is rough, but the term, relative to his age, is the true value killer.

Well, I don't think it does but we'll see if it ever comes to pass. I have my doubts the team even wants to move him. The term is overstated on these boards. He plays a premium position and produces well. He may not be worth 8 mil but he's definitely worth 6.5 mil at this stage. Will his value decline from that? Probably but off a cliff is highly unlikely for this particular player.

But Burns at 6.5 mil for a contract and a late 1st/early 2nd level future asset is still getting something for him which was the original point of contention.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The biggest issue re: Burns is that he can effectively block a trade out. Select Tampa, Washington and Edmonton as his 3 teams he'd accept a trade to and yup, that's a 32 team NTC.

If he will waive.....

Zaitsev + +
for
Burns

If he wants to compete for a Cup, he's going to be willing to waive his clause for certain teams. If he doesn't and he's content with riding his contract out here, the Sharks are likely happy to oblige. They still like him very much and he still produces even if he's not stopping the competition he's up against. He makes it easier for Karlsson and helps ease Merkley into the NHL. It's not the worst thing in the world if the Sharks are made to keep Burns the rest of the way. Moving Burns isn't critical to much of anything considering their situation. They either need a lot more forward talent to compete or don't have to really worry as a rebuilding or retooling team outside the playoffs. The Sharks move Burns if he asks out. If he asks out, he's probably more amenable to just three teams.

 

[Gecklund]

The biggest issue re: Burns is that he can effectively block a trade out. Select Tampa, Washington and Edmonton as his 3 teams he'd accept a trade to and yup, that's a 32 team NTC.

If he will waive.....

Zaitsev + +
for
Burns

If we were moving Burns I feel like the contract coming back would need to be a forward. Sharks already have too many players on the back end.

 

[AvStock]

Crazy we are talking about these players like this. I wonder if in a number of years we will be saying this about Hedman/Makar/Fox/Josi.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Crazy we are talking about these players like this. I wonder if in a number of years we will be saying this about Hedman/Makar/Fox/Josi.

Poile/Sakic/Breisbois don’t have the reputation for signing guys to huge contracts going into well into their late 30s, so I doubt it.

EDIT: Man I didn’t really Josi was going on 32 already. Alright, that’s probably a good example.

 

[xNogaitx]

I may be out of the loop here with San Jose, but aren't most of their woes due to subpar goaltending and too much money spent on over the hill defensemen?

This could be a huge gamble here, but considering people are floating the rumors of a Vlasic buyout, how about a Price for Vlasic flip?

Make the money near even? Their contract length is the same.

2022 1st round pick
Vlasic
Reimer

Lets them free up 1.25M the first year, and then obviously they're on the hook for more cap in years 2-4. Although you'd pay it in a goalie anyway. A huge gamble dependent on Price being able to return to form. But if Vlasic is truly buyout bound, might as well take the gamble.

Price
Oilers' 2022 2nd rd pick
Maybe flip a contract/AHL/B prospect

Habs are trying to speed up the rebuild and Allen is doing a good job. Gives them more flexibility in years 2 to 4 with 3.5M less on the cap. Maybe a homecoming could help Vlasic have a bit of a second life for another season or two.

 

[Gecklund]

I may be out of the loop here with San Jose, but aren't most of their woes due to subpar goaltending and too much money spent on over the hill defensemen?

This could be a huge gamble here, but considering people are floating the rumors of a Vlasic buyout, how about a Price for Vlasic flip?

Make the money near even? Their contract length is the same.

2022 1st round pick
Vlasic
Reimer

Lets them free up 1.25M the first year, and then obviously they're on the hook for more cap in years 2-4. Although you'd pay it in a goalie anyway. A huge gamble dependent on Price being able to return to form. But if Vlasic is truly buyout bound, might as well take the gamble.

Price
Oilers' 2022 2nd rd pick
Maybe flip a contract/AHL/B prospect

Habs are trying to speed up the rebuild and Allen is doing a good job. Gives them more flexibility in years 2 to 4 with 3.5M less on the cap. Maybe a homecoming could help Vlasic have a bit of a second life for another season or two.

We aren’t giving up a 1st to move Vlasic and Reimer has had fantastic numbers this year. You are out of the loop.