Post-Game Talk: Bread Wings

[McRanger92]

I usually dont venture to the main boards but messing with these wings fans who dont remember what good hockey is, is very fun. The final piece of the Yzerplan being 35 year old Patrick Kane is also pretty humorous. You know he was in the pressbox last night thinking "I cant believe I have to pretend to like Detroit!"

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

For me it's not that I'm anti-Lindgren, it's that I am concerned about his next contract. He will rightly point to his TOI and opportunities he is getting as Fox's partner to negotiate his next deal. With that being part of the discussion, I see him as a good bottom-pairing guy. I'm not enamored with paying him $3.5-4m per season

If you can get him on a 4-5 year deal worth $3.5 mil, that'a a steal.

 

[bhamill]

Yes, double minor. It was then reversed.

They really should have called Embellishment or at least Holding the Stick on Raymond. The Det coach would have had an embolism.

 

[Levitate]

The Rick Nash argument. He is on one of the team's biggest contracts handed out to produce on offense. Results count in the end. He's getting on the scoresheet more, so that's good.

I think he's been skating more aggressively which has led to some more offense coming but yeah ultimately still him and Kreider can't cycle the puck together for shit. It's not totally bad to have a line that works well off the rush as long as it's balanced by some forechecking lines but still would like them to look vaguely competent at it from time to time

e: didn't Raymond lose a tooth? I definitely dont' think he embellished it or meant to hit himself but I think that's kinda the shit that happens when you're grabbing sticks. Lotta players do that but usually aren't trying to grab the stick and then lift it out of the way

laughing at the guy on the main boards trying to justify how the refs just made up a rule/scenario and how crazy it is and it's like...man, refs do shit like this all the time

 

[will1066]

I think he's been skating more aggressively which has led to some more offense coming but yeah ultimately still him and Kreider can't cycle the puck together for shit. It's not totally bad to have a line that works well off the rush as long as it's balanced by some forechecking lines but still would like them to look vaguely competent at it from time to time

e: didn't Raymond lose a tooth? I definitely dont' think he embellished it or meant to hit himself but I think that's kinda the shit that happens when you're grabbing sticks. Lotta players do that but usually aren't trying to grab the stick and then lift it out of the way

laughing at the guy on the main boards trying to justify how the refs just made up a rule/scenario and how crazy it is and it's like...man, refs do shit like this all the time

I'm done hoping that Zib and Kreider will suddenly, magically start cycling together. It's a rush line, so yes, accept it and balance the forward group instead of trying to balance the line. I've pondered putting Chytil on the wing there and moving Wheeler back to Bonino and Cuylle, since the 4th line is finally working like a line, resulting in some center depth. You have straight line speed with Kreider-Zib-Chytil.

 

[Levitate]

oh and if the situations were reversed I definitely would have been mad as hell about the reffing and game last night but also the Wings got run and the best pushback they had was Kostin jumping a guy for what was ultimately a pretty soft hit. After that they just spent the game falling to the ice and had no real physical rebuttal. It's the kind of game where in the Gorton/Quinn era we all would have been furious at how the team got run roughshod and had no response

 

[McRanger92]

oh and if the situations were reversed I definitely would have been mad as hell about the reffing and game last night but also the Wings got run and the best pushback they had was Kostin jumping a guy for what was ultimately a pretty soft hit. After that they just spent the game falling to the ice and had no real physical rebuttal. It's the kind of game where in the Gorton/Quinn era we all would have been furious at how the team got run roughshod and had no response

Its funny because the refs HAVE been screwing us all year. We're just an actual good team that can still win those games, unlike the Wannabe Wings

 

[duhmetreE]

MoneyPuck - NYR 4.7xG - vs - DET 4.7xG
NaturalStatTrick - NYR 4.67xG - vs -DET 2.37xG
Vally's CSA - NYR 4.30xG - vs - DET 2.97xG

MoneyPuck is conspiring against us

 

[mas0764]

@mas0764 Fox was like 1 or 2 in league scoring for D before he got hurt lol. Down year my ass. Guy who missed 4 weeks didn't look as "sharp" as he usually does, huge shocker. He was fine btw, it was his partner who was ass tonight.

Lindgren has been great on the PK. Thats one part of his game that has been on point this year. He was massive on those last 2 kills.

He's been bad 5v5. Cannot move a puck at all. The offense has never been a strength but holy shit its been next level bad this year. He's an EASY move for me after this year and one of the more clear upgradable spots on the roster.

Not trying to shit on the guy. Fox is my boo. Just felt like to me even before the injury his impact was far quieter than I’m used to. And I barely noticed him tonight. I’m just eager for him to start dominating the puck and the scoreboard again.

I haven’t been tracking Lindgren’s advanced stats but the guy has always been a defensive stalwart which is way more than you can say about the more-than-twice-as-expensive-Trouba on the roster. I’m leery to move Lindgren because I think he is defensive glue for us back there.

Trouba’s impact is tremendously overrated so I would shed him quickly for a guy (or two) who better round out our defensive pairings.

 

[McRanger92]

Not trying to shit on the guy. Fox is my boo. Just felt like to me even before the injury his impact was far quieter than I’m used to. And I barely noticed him tonight. I’m just eager for him to start dominating the puck and the scoreboard again.

I haven’t been tracking Lindgren’s advanced stats but the guy has always been a defensive stalwart which is way more than you can say about the more-than-twice-as-expensive-Trouba on the roster. I’m leery to move Lindgren because I think he is defensive glue for us back there.

Trouba’s impact is tremendously overrated so I would shed him quickly for a guy (or two) who better round out our defensive pairings.

Moving Trouba in order to keep Lindgren and Gustafsson would be a franchise ruining move.

 

[mas0764]

Welcome to the dark side!

The Rangers will be wise to get value in a trade this summer while he still has team control.

I’d move almost anyone if I win the trade long term. Tell me who I’m getting back. Say, like, some idiot team gives us like Kaiden Guhle and a first, ok, I’m listening. Stranger things have happened, look at when we traded Gomez for McDonagh.

Moving Trouba in order to keep Lindgren and Gustafsson would be a franchise ruining move.

Odd since Lindgren is a better defender and Gustafson better on offense. Depends what they cost.

Also there's the fact that Trouba is as mid as they come at defense so that definitely wouldn't ruin anything.

 

[bhamill]

He can stay if he takes a reasonable contract. Kakko is in the same boat. Miller and Laf are on their way to large extensions, their play has made them the priority.

And Trouba is definitely not getting traded for cap space

KK has a QO of 2.4 million this off season, and with his season "shaping up" as it is I would be shocked if he expected anything BUT a reasonable contract.

 

[Levitate]

MoneyPuck - NYR 4.7xG - vs - DET 4.7xG
NaturalStatTrick - NYR 4.67xG - vs -DET 2.37xG
Vally's CSA - NYR 4.30xG - vs - DET 2.97xG

MoneyPuck is conspiring against us

oh god is this different stat sites using the same metric but wildly different results for it

what is even the point of advanced stats then

I mean I gotta assume they have some different definition or measurement but again really...if you're supposedly measuring the same thing but have wildly different results then it feels like that thing is completely useless

 

[McRanger92]

I’d move almost anyone if I win the trade long term. Tell me who I’m getting back. Say, like, some idiot team gives us like Kaiden Guhle and a first, ok, I’m listening. Stranger things have happened, look at when we traded Gomez for McDonagh.



Odd since Lindgren is a better defender and Gustafson better on offense. Depends what they cost.

Also there's the fact that Trouba is as mid as they come at defense so that definitely wouldn't ruin anything.

Your bias against Trouba is showing once again. Its ok to like the guy despite Dom Lecshyshyn thinking hes overpaid.

KK has a QO of 2.4 million this off season, and with his season "shaping up" as it is I would be shocked if he expected anything BUT a reasonable contract.

I dont think Kakko wants to be here

 

[mas0764]

I think the issue is that Lindgren's puck skills are too poor to play top 4 minutes at this point and that defensemen with his profile are much better suited for bottom pairs. I don't think anyone is arguing that Fox shouldn't play with a defensive defenseman, it's just that, what kind of rope can you give a player that is a complete negative in 2/3 zones? It definitely affects Fox's ability to play as well since Lindgren handling the puck is an automatic turnover and the Rangers like to cycle on the outside looking for lanes.

Think it's just a case of the game getting even faster and players getting a little left behind.

Miller should play first pair, Lindgren should play with Trouba.

Your bias against Trouba is showing once again. Its ok to like the guy despite Dom Lecshyshyn thinking hes overpaid.

There's just no measurement that shows he's any good at defense. He's very, very average.

Trouba's value prior to coming here was that he was a PP QB. That's what made him a 1st Pair defender, that he was being used as an offensive defenseman. He scored 50+ points in that role, but was always very average in defense. And we overpaid him for that role, even.

Given that he doesn't do that here, it drains his value even more, and he's still just mid at defense.

His biggest positive is that he fits the size template that all the old boys at GM want, and he has "intangibles," supposedly.

That's not worth $8m. Maybe half that.

To say at least something nice about him, this is probably his best defensive year here so far, if I had to guess.

I dont think Kakko wants to be here

What evidence is there of that?

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm almost willing to start saying that keeping Lindgren to move on from Gustafsson may be akin to keeping Staal but losing Stralman.

 

[McRanger92]

Miller should play first pair, Lindgren should play with Trouba.



There's just no measurement that shows he's any good at defense. He's very, very average.

Trouba's value prior to coming here was that he was a PP QB. That's what made him a 1st Pair defender, that he was being used as an offensive defenseman. He scored 50+ points in that role, but was always very average in defense. And we overpaid him for that role, even.

Given that he doesn't do that here, it drains his value even more, and he's still just mid at defense.

His biggest positive is that he fits the size template that all the old boys at GM want, and he has "intangibles," supposedly.

That's not worth $8m. Maybe half that.



What evidence is there of that?

You choose to not see Trouba's value besides percentage points on a chart. We can agree to disagree there because hes just not getting traded by this regime.

As for Kakko its just because the kid has literally never looked happy here and he isnt going to have a top 6 & 1PP role going forward, especially with top wing prospects like Othmann and Perrault advancing. Do you think he wants to extend here long term? Do you think the Rangers even want to extend him long term? Im just being a realist. You cant pay everybody and a 23 year old kid like Kakko i dont think will be jumping for joy on a team that has him penciled in to a Joel Armia role, you know?

I'm almost willing to start saying that keeping Lindgren to move on from Gustafsson may be akin to keeping Staal but losing Stralman.

Girardi & Staal over Stralman & Yandle cut the Lundqvist Cup window by 2 years minimum. Some fans want to make the same mistake twice though.

 

[bhamill]

Your bias against Trouba is showing once again. Its ok to like the guy despite Dom Lecshyshyn thinking hes overpaid.



I dont think Kakko wants to be here

Well, his choices are NYR or Europe... but I'm interested what leads you to believe Kakko doesn't want to be a NYR.

 

[McRanger92]

Well, his choices are NYR or Europe... but I'm interested what leads you to believe Kakko doesn't want to be a NYR.

I have no evidence or anything Im just reading the tea leaves. Hes a strong change of scenery candidate.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Your bias against Trouba is showing once again. Its ok to like the guy despite Dom Lecshyshyn thinking hes overpaid.



I dont think Kakko wants to be here

Kakko always struck me as a player that doesn't like the bright lights of playing in a big market. He'd be happier playing in a smaller market where he can live anonymously like in Dallas or Arizona.

 

[mas0764]

I have no evidence or anything Im just reading the tea leaves. Hes a strong change of scenery candidate.

Seems like speculation. Given Lafreniere’s unlooked for jump after playing like ass for 6 months, imo the wise move is to try to convince Kakko that he’s a middle 6 support player and then hope after he’s locked up that he turns into a top liner. I still think, as I said over and over with Laf, that there is a high end player in there who is just mentally lost. I think Laf is figuring it out now. For some reason I think with this new admin that Kakko is now the one who can’t figure out what to do. But we know he’s better than this and I think if he does figure it out he’s a 25-25-50 player with great defense.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Its funny because the refs HAVE been screwing us all year. We're just an actual good team that can still win those games, unlike the Wannabe Wings

Reminds me of how they said they would have won that game if Larkin and Ghost were healthy. What was the excuse last time when we killed them with Fox, Chytil, and Shesty injured?

 

[McRanger92]

Reminds me of how they said they would have won that game if Larkin and Ghost were healthy. What was the excuse last time when we killed them with Fox, Chytil, and Shesty injured?

Juding by the main boards thread the refs cost them that game too. A decade of irrelevance has made them soft.

Seems like speculation. Given Lafreniere’s unlooked for jump after playing like ass for 6 months, imo the wise move is to try to convince Kakko that he’s a middle 6 support player and then hope after he’s locked up that he turns into a top liner. I still think, as I said over and over with Laf, that there is a high end player in there who is just mentally lost. I think Laf is figuring it out now. For some reason I think with this new admin that Kakko is now the one who can’t figure out what to do. But we know he’s better than this and I think if he does figure it out he’s a 25-25-50 player with great defense.

It is speculation i dont have any sources. And I dont dislike Kakko as a player but its really hard for me to envision him scoring 25 goals as a 3rd liner who is afraid to shoot the puck and doesnt get consistent PP time. He knows that more than anyone at this point.

 

[mas0764]

Juding by the main boards thread the refs cost them that game too. A decade of irrelevance has made them soft.



It is speculation i dont have any sources. And I dont dislike Kakko as a player but its really hard for me to envision him scoring 25 goals as a 3rd liner who is afraid to shoot the puck and doesnt get consistent PP time. He knows that more than anyone at this point.

I’m saying I think he can be more than a third liner. It’s still in there, just like it was for Laf. If he comes back and starts churning he can be back on the top line.

 

[Chytilmania]

I think the issue is that Lindgren's puck skills are too poor to play top 4 minutes at this point and that defensemen with his profile are much better suited for bottom pairs. I don't think anyone is arguing that Fox shouldn't play with a defensive defenseman, it's just that, what kind of rope can you give a player that is a complete negative in 2/3 zones? It definitely affects Fox's ability to play as well since Lindgren handling the puck is an automatic turnover and the Rangers like to cycle on the outside looking for lanes.

Think it's just a case of the game getting even faster and players getting a little left behind.

I would love to see how Fox and Gus play as the top pair. Lindy can stay home and let Schneider play more aggressive.