Player Discussion: Brayden Point - Part 3

[CupsOverCash]

Theoretically... Wouldn't this be a perfect time for a team with cash to offer sheet point ?
When the lightning are cap-strapped and probably can't match if it's 9-10 million ?

I think if an offer sheet were to happen it would have already happened by now. Teams are in camp and close to their cap amount. Its just not going to happen.

 

[Fabiobest]

Reports have Point not wanting a bridge deal. Well, "report," singular. I can't blame him for that. I hope he settles for one in the end. I just don't like pretending the kid's accomplishments don't count because we're hoping JBB wins the negotiation. JBB's gonna win either way. It's just a matter of how much he wins.

I wouldn't blame Point a bit for asking for 8m x 3. I doubt he'll get it, given what we have left, but it's hard to blame him when he's saying players who've done less sign for more.

I agree with you: I don't blame Point and his agent, because they're doing their job, as JBB is.
They're right to try to ask a big salary.
If they're asking for a long term deal, I think that we cannot give him the Marner salary: 1) we don't have the space 2) also if we've the space, it's not a good idea for the dressing room balance...
I think that if Point and his agent will change their ideas and will accept a bridge deal, we'll see a salary that is around the 7M, more or less. Maybe with a contract that will bring Point to be an UFA after these years.
It's hard to win in every part of this negotiation...

 

[Todd1a]

Theoretically... Wouldn't this be a perfect time for a team with cash to offer sheet point ?
When the lightning are cap-strapped and probably can't match if it's 9-10 million ?

The lightning could still make a roster move a get 10 million in cap space unload condon? And if a team offersheets point I
Think we a a window where we can buy out a player? So it’s not happening

 

[DFC]

Theoretically... Wouldn't this be a perfect time for a team with cash to offer sheet point ?
When the lightning are cap-strapped and probably can't match if it's 9-10 million ?

If Point hadn't told them not to bother, it would be, yeah. I think JBB is using that to his advantage, so maybe Point fights fire with fire and invites offer sheets suddenly. But I don't blame JBB for using any and all advantages he has. I'd rather see that than signing players to more/less whatever they want (Dubas).

 

[DFC]

I agree with you: I don't blame Point and his agent, because they're doing their job, as JBB is.
They're right to try to ask a big salary.
If they're asking for a long term deal, I think that we cannot give him the Marner salary: 1) we don't have the space 2) also if we've the space, it's not a good idea for the dressing room balance...
I think that if Point and his agent will change their ideas and will accept a bridge deal, we'll see a salary that is around the 7M, more or less. Maybe with a contract that will bring Point to be an UFA after these years.
It's hard to win in every part of this negotiation...

It's awfully hard to ask Point to take barely a million more than Brock Boeser. It might happen, but, if it does, he's kind of doing us a favor. No disrespect to Boeser, but Point has accomplished a lot more and means more to our team.

 

[Fabiobest]

We've put ourselves in a position where a bridge deal is the only thing possible. Unless Point's side is pushing for 8.5 x 5, the Aho contract. I can't see him signing long-term because we just don't have the money to make it work.

But people are too focused on the Leafs. Dubas is continuing a trend that didn't start with him.

It's a good idea if I won't talk anymore about Dubas...I don't want to receive a ban...ahahahahahah

 

[CupsOverCash]

If Point hadn't told them not to bother, it would be, yeah. I think JBB is using that to his advantage, so maybe Point fights fire with fire and invites offer sheets suddenly. But I don't blame JBB for using any and all advantages he has. I'd rather see that than signing players to more/less whatever they want (Dubas).

Id be surprised if he brought in offer sheets because then it would mean that he doesnt care about the previous structure and I dont know how that would go with the team. I wouldnt blame him to go for what he deserves but at the same time would be surprised that he went against the locker room and the kind of environment that was set before this negotiation hit.

 

[Fabiobest]

It's awfully hard to ask Point to take barely a million more than Brock Boeser. It might happen, but, if it does, he's kind of doing us a favor. No disrespect to Boeser, but Point has accomplished a lot more and means more to our team.

Yes but consider who Boeser is playing with. Point has made amazing things with us, for sure, and probably he's a better player that Boeser.
But we've to say also that he's playing with, probably, the best players in the League, in their roles (Heddy and Kuch in PP...with Stammer too).
I agree with you btw: it's difficult that he'll accept only 1M more than Boeser. I don't know...I hope, to be honest, to read some news in the next couple of days.

 

[DFC]

Point certainly understands that our key players have taken discounts to stay here, the precedent has been set. He also understands that a team with this kind of talent requires that type of selflessness, it's just not possible to pay everyone what they're worth and keep this amount of talent together. In the end it's a simple decision between getting paid more to play for a worse team or staying and playing on a historic team.

Yes and no. Our stars have taken discounts on long-term deals. The only bridge deal that came in at a big discount was Kucherov. NMCs and NTCs are a big factor in how we get these big discounts. When those aren't available, we tend to pay market value. Maybe even a little more. Kucherov is the exception because we flat out ran out of money, and eventually he took what we had left (after holding out through camp and then firing his agent, and now still speaks negatively about the situation).

But I mean, Vasy was a back-up, and we gave him 3.5. That's more than fair value for a guy who hadn't accomplished much but had a lot of potential. Johnson and Palat got 3.3m when most of us on this forum were predicting 2.5, max.

 

[DFC]

Id be surprised if he brought in offer sheets because then it would mean that he doesnt care about the previous structure and I dont know how that would go with the team. I wouldnt blame him to go for what he deserves but at the same time would be surprised that he went against the locker room and the kind of environment that was set before this negotiation hit.

I don't think we'll see it because I think, now that time matters, JBB's offer will start inching up. If he sticks with lowball offers though, Point's side might have to use the only leverage they have.

I'm sticking with my prediction that he signs either tomorrow or the next day. :p

 

[DFC]

Yes but consider who Boeser is playing with. Point has made amazing things with us, for sure, and probably he's a better player that Boeser.
But we've to say also that he's playing with, probably, the best players in the League, in their roles (Heddy and Kuch in PP...with Stammer too).
I agree with you btw: it's difficult that he'll accept only 1M more than Boeser. I don't know...I hope, to be honest, to read some news in the next couple of days.

I've considered it. Still doesn't make them anywhere close to equal.

Players who put up big numbers are almost always in good situations. Point's in a good situation, but he also makes that situation a lot better. Our PP gets a lot worse (well, it becomes just "good" instead of "incredible") if Kucherov doesn't have Point as an option.

I mean... Point didn't have Kucherov last season, and still scored 30 goals. Are we really gonna believe his jump in scoring had nothing at all to do with a 22 year-old Point being better than a 21 year-old Point? That it was all just Kucherov feeding him points? No doubt that helped. But come on. You can't just pretend the kid didn't put up 90 points because of who he played with, no more than you can pretend Kucherov didn't really put up 128 because he played with great players.

 

[Fabiobest]

I've considered it. Still doesn't make them anywhere close to equal.

Players who put up big numbers are almost always in good situations. Point's in a good situation, but he also makes that situation a lot better. Our PP gets a lot worse (well, it becomes just "good" instead of "incredible") if Kucherov doesn't have Point as an option.

I mean... Point didn't have Kucherov last season, and still scored 30 goals. Are we really gonna believe his jump in scoring had nothing at all to do with a 22 year-old Point being better than a 21 year-old Point? That it was all just Kucherov feeding him points? No doubt that helped. But come on. You can't just pretend the kid didn't put up 90 points because of who he played with, no more than you can pretend Kucherov didn't really put up 128 because he played with great players.

Yes, the truth is that Point helped Kucherov in the same way Kucherov helped Point. It's a team sport for a reason
About his new contract, one of the few news we have is that our offer was 5.7M for three years.
Not good and not enough. I continue to hope that 6.5M is ok, but it's hard that he'll accept only 700k more than or first offer.

 

[DFC]

Yes, the truth is that Point helped Kucherov in the same way Kucherov helped Point. It's a team sport for a reason
About his new contract, one of the few news we have is that our offer was 5.7M for three years.
Not good and not enough. I continue to hope that 6.5M is ok, but it's hard that he'll accept only 700k more than or first offer.

We offered that a while ago though. I doubt it's still the offer on the table, now that we've seen some contracts trickle in. I don't believe for a second JBB thought 5.7 would get it done. I think he didn't want to open at 7 and have Point's camp come back with 11.

 

[Sky04]

What do you think they should do? They only have 8.4 to spend. They arent going to give him all of that.

I don't think JBB would have an issue with using the remaining cap considering we could still ice a full 23 man roster without casualty but he would definitely want more term on the deal which is completely unlikely from Point. Both sides seem to be in agreement of a bridge deal, 3 years looks to be the number. I think anyone thinking JBB won't budge on his 5.7m x 3 offer or that Point's side is being "greedy" is silly too, it's basic negotiation, a high ask and a low ball, neither side fully expects to get their ask but you wait till one side blinks to see who comes out marginally on top.

Point's side would be using market comparable and leveraging the remaining caphit arguing they'd still be under market value signing 25m~ for 3 years (8.4m) which is the most they could get in the current situation. JBB's 17m for 3 years (5.7m) is a low ball to counter the high ask. I don't think it's an offer he actually think's Point would take but you don't want to look stupid by being taken to the cleaners by an RFA bridge deal like Dubas. I think what likely happens is likely the middle point of both which would be 7.1m x 3 years but personally I see JBB caving to Point and we see something like 7.5m x 3 years.

 

[Sky04]

We offered that a while ago though. I doubt it's still the offer on the table, now that we've seen some contracts trickle in. I don't believe for a second JBB thought 5.7 would get it done. I think he didn't want to open at 7 and have Point's camp come back with 11.

Exactly.

 

[Fabiobest]

We offered that a while ago though. I doubt it's still the offer on the table, now that we've seen some contracts trickle in. I don't believe for a second JBB thought 5.7 would get it done. I think he didn't want to open at 7 and have Point's camp come back with 11.

If Point camp will ask for a 11M long term deal we are in a "Houston we have a problem" mode LOL
Also because our space is 8.5...2.5M of difference...

 

[The Macho King]

Deadline space is going to be really important. If the Devils don't make the playoffs, Hall might be had as a rental if he won't re-sign. Imagine adding Hall to this team? But we'd need like 6 in deadline space (a few ways we can get there). Could be other potential guys available at the deadline to that we'd want as rentals, but just throwing it out there.

 

[DFC]

Deadline space is going to be really important. If the Devils don't make the playoffs, Hall might be had as a rental if he won't re-sign. Imagine adding Hall to this team? But we'd need like 6 in deadline space (a few ways we can get there). Could be other potential guys available at the deadline to that we'd want as rentals, but just throwing it out there.

Yeah, I think JBB wants at least a million in space to start the year. I say that only because he mentioned the value of a million in space in an interview.

 

[DFC]

If Point camp will ask for a 11M long term deal we are in a "Houston we have a problem" mode LOL
Also because our space is 8.5...2.5M of difference...

Point's camp wouldn't realistically expect 11. But I think JBB let a lowball offer sit on the table all summer so, when they finally do start negotiating, it's with numbers in the ballpark of a contract we can live with.

As much as I'm arguing Point's case here, I really like the way JBB's playing this. I want Point as cheaply as possible. I just understand he has a case to get paid bigtime, same as his peer group.

 

[Fabiobest]

Point's camp wouldn't realistically expect 11. But I think JBB let a lowball offer sit on the table all summer so, when they finally do start negotiating, it's with numbers in the ballpark of a contract we can live with.

As much as I'm arguing Point's case here, I really like the way JBB's playing this. I want Point as cheaply as possible. I just understand he has a case to get paid bigtime, same as his peer group.

I agree with you: I like what JBB is doing in this negotiation and I can understard also Point camp point of view.
We've to see which part will win this negotiation.

 

[42]

This is looking more and more like it's gonna drag into the season.

 

[These Are The Days]

Deadline space is going to be really important. If the Devils don't make the playoffs, Hall might be had as a rental if he won't re-sign. Imagine adding Hall to this team? But we'd need like 6 in deadline space (a few ways we can get there). Could be other potential guys available at the deadline to that we'd want as rentals, but just throwing it out there.

Hall's situation has often left me wondering the same thing. Put him on a line with Johnson and Stamkos and watch the world burn. If the NJD are out of it I'm all for trying to get Hall as a rental

They're not really in any kind of position to refuse something like a 2nd and prospect if he's not extending there

 

[The Macho King]

Hall's situation has often left me wondering the same thing. Put him on a line with Johnson and Stamkos and watch the world burn. If the NJD are out of it I'm all for trying to get Hall as a rental

They're not really in any kind of position to refuse something like a 2nd and prospect

We'd have to give up a first at minimum. And I'd pay it without hesitation.

 

[These Are The Days]

We'd have to give up a first at minimum. And I'd pay it without hesitation.

You think so? I would too so long as it wasn't Vancouver's pick. Hall is an even strength God. He always finds ways to score when the whistles are put away

 

[DFC]

Hall's situation has often left me wondering the same thing. Put him on a line with Johnson and Stamkos and watch the world burn. If the NJD are out of it I'm all for trying to get Hall as a rental

They're not really in any kind of position to refuse something like a 2nd and prospect if he's not extending there

We won't be the only team bidding on him. Price will be a LOT higher.