Player Discussion: Brayden Point - Part 3

[Fabiobest]

The fact of the matter is there's more high-level young Talent out there now producing and they want to be paid what they're worth market value that's all..

how many of you in your jobs if you felt you were underpaid would want fair value ? come on quit letting your team Allegiance cloud your minds.

6.5M for 3 years and then a bigger contract means that Point would be underpaid?
Wow...
If Dumbass want to gift money to his players, it does not mean he's right and he's done the right thing. And it does not mean Marner deserved that contract.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

The fact of the matter is there's more high-level young Talent out there now producing and they want to be paid what they're worth market value that's all..

how many of you in your jobs if you felt you were underpaid would want fair value ? come on quit letting your team Allegiance cloud your minds.

Dollar values in a contract do not encapsulate the true value of the deal. It's not as black and white as that. What one is paid in a successful, classy organization like the Lightning is a good bit different than one would have to be paid to be convinced to play somewhere like Ottawa, Buffalo, or Edmonton. Amazing weather all year-round, unlimited activities for both singles and family men, the wonderful tax-free consideration, and working for a world-class organization makes the actual dollar values of a contract mean ... just a little bit less.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The fact of the matter is there's more high-level young Talent out there now producing and they want to be paid what they're worth market value that's all..

how many of you in your jobs if you felt you were underpaid would want fair value ? come on quit letting your team Allegiance cloud your minds.

I happily would take a little less money moving to another job if it provided better benefits for a quality of life. I'm not taking a lot but still would be less. It's the fine balancing of life of my family over my own mental and physical health.

Granted this is a physical sport in general and you are getting paid millions regardless, I can see your point and do agree that trying to get market value or close to your peers is a huge sticking point.

But there are unquantifiable benefits to playing with and staying with the lightning. It becomes a very subjective number to find what the dollar value is for each player. What others and myself included are trying to say, is that there are a lot of benefits of playing with the Lightning and taking a little less to stay and play with the organization could be worth it in the long run.

 

[Picklepete]

Ok lets just take the invisible money from the cap space we have and give him 10 mil huh?

just because we don't have the cap space now doesn't mean we can't get the cap space ! get rid of one of the guys making 1 million or so.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I wonder if Point is upset that we used some of the cap space on guys like Shattenkirk and Maroon when we still had to sign him. That took the Marner money possibility away and it takes away any kind of high offer sheet that he could sign if he wanted to use that to get what he wanted from us. Now he has to settle for whatever we are offering which I cant say with confidence that its all the 8.4 we have. I think JBB does want to keep some of it. I cant speak for Point but I dont think he would be upset. I think the Shattenkirk and Maroon signings could help us get further in the playoffs or maybe over the hump. Depth moves like that are important. I just cant help but wonder what Point is thinking through this.

 

[Picklepete]

And I've been in Tampa since 1986 I'm aware of lifestyle benefits of living in Florida & go to tons of Bolts games.
Had season ticks for 15 yrs.

Go Bolts..

 

[CupsOverCash]

just because we don't have the cap space now doesn't mean we can't get the cap space ! get rid of one of the guys making 1 million or so.

Will be interesting to see if they do because they had that money before. They used it on depth even though they still had Point to sign.

 

[Sky04]

6.5M for 3 years and then a bigger contract means that Point would be underpaid?
Wow...
If Dumbass want to gift money to his players, it does not mean he's right and he's done the right thing. And it does not mean Marner deserved that contract.

Tell me how Marner doesn't deserve that contract based on everything else the leafs or the market has done in recent years? The basis for his contract was the easiest out of the 3 leafs players because he has the most tangible results.

6.5m is an absolute underpayment coming off a 40 goal 90 point season.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Tell me how Marner doesn't deserve that contract based on everything else the leafs or the market has done so far? The basis for his contract was the easiest out of the 3 leafs players because he has the most tangible results.

6.5m is an absolute underpayment coming off a 40 goal 90 point season, what kind of lowball market have you guys been watching?

What do you think they should do? They only have 8.4 to spend. They arent going to give him all of that.

 

[DFC]

Ok lets just take the invisible money from the cap space we have and give him 10 mil huh?

I agree with this. I just think we have to keep in mind that he's going to get less because we can't afford to pay him market value, not because suddenly, and conveniently, he hasn't proven anything and therefore deserves less.

 

[DFC]

6.5M for 3 years and then a bigger contract means that Point would be underpaid?
Wow...
If Dumbass want to gift money to his players, it does not mean he's right and he's done the right thing. And it does not mean Marner deserved that contract.

Too many people are pointing to Marner because he was the worst example. Better examples are Eichel, Draisatl, and Keller. Players are getting paid these days. 6.5 is an absolute underpayment for Point. It might be what he settles for, but it's not fair value unless we're going back to 2016 or so.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Too many people are pointing to Marner because he was the worst example. Better examples are Eichel, Draisatl, and Keller. Players are getting paid these days. 6.5 is an absolute underpayment for Point. It might be what he settles for, but it's not fair value unless we're going back to 2016 or so.

Or maybe he hates Leaf HF Posters and wants to watch them complain about taxes. Maybe Point is the ultimate troll.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I agree with this. I just think we have to keep in mind that he's going to get less because we can't afford to pay him market value, not because suddenly, and conveniently, he hasn't proven anything and therefore deserves less.

I think even the Lightning know that he is worth what Marner and those guys got, but at the same time its not JBBs job to make sure that Braydon Point gets what Marner, Eichel and some other comparables got. Its to make sure that the team wins games. If he cared about Point getting market value, we wouldnt have signed Shattenkirk & Maroon. Maybe wouldnt have given another backup goalie another mil. There is a window here and unfortunately for Point he came to this party pretty late compared to others. Winning was the priority when the guys before him signed discounts and I dont see why that would change. I do agree though that 6.5 is cheap for Point but I dont think the idea is to cheap him out of money he deserves. Winning is the objective here.

 

[DFC]

Or maybe he hates Leaf HF Posters and wants to watch them complain about taxes. Maybe Point is the ultimate troll.

Haha, I do feel like that's a factor in why so many are holding out hope he signs ultra cheap. Just to see the Leafs' reaction. But don't worry--their media is genuinely expecting him to get 10 (some are saying it's impossible for Point to get less than Marner, and I think every single one of them ranks him slightly higher than Marner), so many a head will still explode, even if Point comes in higher than we're expecting. Because it won't touch the numbers that Leafs media believe "have to be the case."

 

[Fabiobest]

Tell me how Marner doesn't deserve that contract based on everything else the leafs or the market has done in recent years? The basis for his contract was the easiest out of the 3 leafs players because he has the most tangible results.

6.5m is an absolute underpayment coming off a 40 goal 90 point season, what kind of lowball market have you guys been watching?

If we consider what the Leafs has done in the previous years, yes, I agree with you and Marner was right to pretend that money.
But if you want to sign a bridge deal, you cannot pay him 8.5M because, in that case, is a non-sense deal.
I think a bridge deal could reach, at his best, the 7M, for 3 years.
If you want a long term deal, the situation is different of course.

 

[Fabiobest]

Too many people are pointing to Marner because he was the worst example. Better examples are Eichel, Draisatl, and Keller. Players are getting paid these days. 6.5 is an absolute underpayment for Point. It might be what he settles for, but it's not fair value unless we're going back to 2016 or so.

But if you want a bridge deal, you cannot sign him for 8M for example...
It depends what kind of deal you want, imho

 

[CupsOverCash]

Haha, I do feel like that's a factor in why so many are holding out hope he signs ultra cheap. Just to see the Leafs' reaction. But don't worry--their media is genuinely expecting him to get 10 (some are saying it's impossible for Point to get less than Marner, and I think every single one of them ranks him slightly higher than Marner), so many a head will still explode, even if Point comes in higher than we're expecting. Because it won't touch the numbers that Leafs media believe "have to be the case."

Heads will soon explode. It will be glorious..

 

[DFC]

I think even the Lightning know that he is worth what Marner and those guys got, but at the same time its not JBBs job to make sure that Braydon Point gets what Marner, Eichel and some other comparables got. Its to make sure that the team wins games. If he cared about Point getting market value, we wouldnt have signed Shattenkirk & Maroon. Maybe wouldnt have given another backup goalie another mil. There is a window here and unfortunately for Point he came to this party pretty late compared to others. Winning was the priority when the guys before him signed discounts and I dont see why that would change. I do agree though that 6.5 is cheap for Point but I dont think the idea is to cheap him out of money he deserves. Winning is the objective here.

I'm all for JBB fighting with Point over every penny. I just think, trying to look at it objectively and without a side, Point has a veeeeery good argument to get more. We just can't give him more. If Point comes in at 5.7, I will laugh and laugh and laugh. And I'll be the first (and last) guy sticking it to Leaf fans in the dozens of tax threads that follow.

All I'm saying is, if he refuses to accept that, it doesn't make him some greedy kid. He's being asked to take a deal that nobody in his position has been asked to take in the cap era. So if his side wants to fight over a few pennies too, I don't blame them. I hope JBB wins that fight. I just don't think he's "right" and Point is "wrong." Point has a solid case to make big money. He just won't. But that's mainly because we don't have it; not because he hasn't put himself in a position to make it.

 

[Picklepete]

Theoretically... Wouldn't this be a perfect time for a team with cash to offer sheet point ?
When the lightning are cap-strapped and probably can't match if it's 9-10 million ?

 

[J T Money]

He's not signing an offer sheet.

 

[DMB06]

Point certainly understands that our key players have taken discounts to stay here, the precedent has been set. He also understands that a team with this kind of talent requires that type of selflessness, it's just not possible to pay everyone what they're worth and keep this amount of talent together. In the end it's a simple decision between getting paid more to play for a worse team or staying and playing on a historic team.

 

[DFC]

But if you want a bridge deal, you cannot sign him for 8M for example...
It depends what kind of deal you want, imho

Reports have Point not wanting a bridge deal. Well, "report," singular. I can't blame him for that. I hope he settles for one in the end. I just don't like pretending the kid's accomplishments don't count because we're hoping JBB wins the negotiation. JBB's gonna win either way. It's just a matter of how much he wins.

I wouldn't blame Point a bit for asking for 8m x 3. I doubt he'll get it, given what we have left, but it's hard to blame him when he's saying players who've done less sign for more.

 

[Picklepete]

And a 5 yr deal right to UFA.. ouch

 

[CupsOverCash]

I'm all for JBB fighting with Point over every penny. I just think, trying to look at it objectively and without a side, Point has a veeeeery good argument to get more. We just can't give him more. If Point comes in at 5.7, I will laugh and laugh and laugh. All I'm saying is, if he refuses to accept that, it doesn't make him some greedy kid. He's being asked to take a deal that nobody in his position has been asked to take in the cap era. So if his side wants to fight over a few pennies too, I don't blame them. I hope JBB wins that fight. I just don't think he's "right" and Point is "wrong." Point has a solid case to make big money. He just won't, because we don't have it.

No it doesnt make him greedy and I dont blame either side for doing what they are doing. I think its just as important to point out why the Lightning arent giving him the deal that he deserves. As many are saying to just give it to him. Its not that easy for both sides and if it were he would already signed a deal. Its just a negotiation going on and the thing that sucks about it is that he is missing time and hopefully that ends soon. Nobody benefits from a long holdout.

 

[DFC]

If we consider what the Leafs has done in the previous years, yes, I agree with you and Marner was right to pretend that money.
But if you want to sign a bridge deal, you cannot pay him 8.5M because, in that case, is a non-sense deal.
I think a bridge deal could reach, at his best, the 7M, for 3 years.
If you want a long term deal, the situation is different of course.

We've put ourselves in a position where a bridge deal is the only thing possible. Unless Point's side is pushing for 8.5 x 5, the Aho contract. I can't see him signing long-term because we just don't have the money to make it work.

But people are too focused on the Leafs. Dubas is continuing a trend that didn't start with him.