umma gumma
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- Apr 8, 2005
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So the problem is leadership and not poor pro scouting/coaching and drafting or lack thereof. Gotcha. f***in nuts.
Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI
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How is the team supposed to get better if you keep the same people who fail to make the playoffs on the roster taking up important roles on the team?
I'll say it again - it seems like some of you would rather have Brady Tkachuk on this team then have the GM build a winning team that can make the playoffs. I'm not a Brady Tkachuk fan. I'm an Ottawa Senators fan. I want to see the Ottawa Senators make the playoffs. I have seen enough of this core group led by Brady Tkachuk. He can't do it. They can't do it. It is time for change.
Brady Tkachuk is a hell of a piece to have in a core going forward, I just don't think we have the right pieces to compliment him well at all. Poorly constructed roster by Dorion. I think we'd be in a decent spot had we kept our 1sts from the Duchene/DeBrincat/Chychrun trades. Too much top draft capital spent on literally nothing (with a future 1st still to be surrendered to the NHL).
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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People want to improve on the guys that aren't producing rather than get rid of the guys that are, seems pretty straight forward.
We moved on from Karlsson, and never won again, we moved on from Stone, never won again, moved on from Duchene, never one again, but this time it will be different, right?
Maybe instead of changing the guys at the top, fix the actual issues with the team. Get some secondary scoring, some depth at RD, have a goalie make a save or two. The top lines haven't been our problem
The only reason you move on from Tkachuk is because you think he's going to force his way out as a result of the team's failure to get the surrounding pieces in place.
I’m pretty sure everyone on this board agrees we need another high end piece. What’s lacking in logic at this point is that people want to trade 1/3 we actually have so that we need to then find two high end pieces. Basically the assumption is either that Brady is going to return one to replace him, which is not even close to a guarantee, or that we are somehow better by subtracting one of our best players. It makes not an ounce of sense.
I couldn’t care less where Tkachuk is on this arbitrary ranking. I can’t imagine the Florida Panthers are sitting there worried about who ranks third and who ranks fourth.
I couldn’t care less where Tkachuk is on this arbitrary ranking. I can’t imagine the Florida Panthers are sitting there worried about who ranks third and who ranks fourth.
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
I think this sums it up well, but also the assumption he'll use his NMC to force his way out and ruin the return drives a lot of the commentary. I see it as a possibility, but a lot seem to full on assume it's a guarantee.
Where is this player coming from though?
I don't think trading Brady Tkachuk makes this team better today or next season. But it's a starting point for this team eventually becoming better.
This team has shuffled players in and out. DeBrincat. Chychrun. Norris is back. Nothing seems to change the fact this team seems to collapse in November and then play its way out of having a good draft pick in February/March/April.
Go back 20 years, how many players better than Tkachuk have we drafted?
Karlsson, Stone, Stützle I imagine we all mostly agree on. Sanderson probably gets there but maybe not yet.
We might not get that player anyway, trading Tkachuk or not. The reality is we are probably not going to win a Cup, that’s just odds. I’m not trading a player who is amongst the best we’ve drafted by choice personally and then assuming somehow in the span of the next few years, before we start wasting Timmy and Sanderson’s primes, those players superior to Tkachuk are going to magically appear.
At one point Landeskog was too high on the ranking for Colorado. Then they found players and he got bumped down, they didn’t move him bc they thought he wasn’t elite enough.
coladin
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- Sep 18, 2009
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This is entirely too funny. There are so many issues on this team, in no particular order:
Ullmark poor start
Pinto terrible
Sanderson terrible
Amadio terrible
Cousins terrible
But let's pick on the guy who contributes every night because he is not perfect
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In Landeskog's third season the Colorado Avalanche made the playoffs.
If we had made the playoffs in any of the prior 7 seasons or if we make it this season my mind will be changed. But this core has done literally nothing.
Landeskog and MacKinnon had done something almost immediately after being drafted.
Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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Auston can't score more than 40 goals without mitch marner as his primary winger
That wasn’t really my point. No one is arguing against a shake up of the core - it seems to me that if you have a say in it, you don’t start with the guys who are going to be most difficult to replace because you feel he shouldn’t be one of your top 3 players. In that sentence alone there is an acknowledgement that he is better than 20+ other guys on the roster.
Pinning the org’s failures on Tkachuk is a pointless exercise, this team was always built to fail under the ownership we had. Doesn’t mean he is perfect, but the guy you “replace” him with will come with his own set of flaws and we will restart this cycle.
The point is really Brady Tkachuk is more like Matt Duchene in the Avalanche analogy. Trade him and win a Stanley Cup. Keep the guys you drafted 3-5 years later in Landeskog and MacKinnon.
I'm joking obviously but teams trade star players they have drafted all the time when things are not working out. I would say heading into an 8 year playoff drought... things are not working out.
Most of the time it’s because the player wants out. Which is exactly what I think is going to happen anyway, so I suspect Tkachuk will be gone this summer. I’m just saying in a world where he says he’s committed to seeing this through, I wouldn’t touch him before looking at virtually everyone else on the team not named Stützle or Sanderson for the hope that I might find something better. That’s really all it is… hope.
If you get a trade package you can’t refuse then sure - that is typically not how these things go.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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You need to stop conflating team performance with player performance.
It took a near vezina level performance from Valamov (2nd in voting and 4th for the hart) and some very fortunate sh% for Landeskog to get into the playoffs that 3rd year, and then they went on and missed the next 3 years. Was it Landeskog's fault they regressed and missed 3 more years, of course not.
Had we snuck into the playoffs off the back of a .927 Sv% perfomance by Talbot in 2022-23 or Murray in 2020-21, instead of the sub .900 performances we got, that wouldn't make a lick of a difference in how Tkachuk should be viewed.
Scoring wingers that aren't the best on defense aren't particularly hard to replace.
We're not going to find anyone else who hits and shoots as much as Tkachuk, but that isn't exactly a priority considering its not a prerequisite to winning. When getting a top 6 forward, If management can just get another winger at a decent cap hit who is close to PPG, its enough (along with other assets of course).
Micklebot
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I think this is minimizing Tkachuk's impact. Teams that lack physicality tend not to do well in the playoffs. It's why TBL went out and overpaid for Goodrow, why VGK got Barbeshev, why the rangers made big changes after Tom Wilson dummied panarin and why he was so coveted despite not being a huge pts producer. A guy like Lucic was a big part of Boston's cup,
Tuna99
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- Sep 26, 2009
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Now with all the losing, I don’t thinks it’s a question of how far Brady can take us, it’s a question of how for Brady WANTS to take us.
I think his patients is wearing thin. So is the fanbases. It’ll come to a head this summer
The scary things Brady says now are “I’m sick of losing” and “I only want to win” - and to me these are statements made to the organization, not the fans. Brady is telling us who he is, and how Brady sees himself and what the Ottawa senators are giving him are no where close to symbiotic.
Brady has dreams, Ottawa is not fulfilling those dreams. This is the most dangerous part of today, not what the fans say on Twitter or HFboards, it’s what Brady is saying out loud everyday.
What metrics would you even use to make that argument?
I'm looking at physicality as hits, specifically hits per 60minutes, and a few cup winners in the top 5, but cup winners also below that. Hits in the regular season don't seem to predict anything either.
I think the more accurate statement would be teams have to be willing to take it up a notch in the playoffs which teams generally do because hitting increases in the playoffs. Tkachuk would ramp up is already insane hitting up in the playoffs, but that doesn't necessarily translate to on ice success.
Was reading that Brady is excited to play with his brother and he's dreamed of it.
I hope they both play on the same line, have horrible chemistry, and the notion of wanting to leave Ottawa to play with him disappear at the 4 nations tournament
Tuna99
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Brady is the only guy in team USA to never make the Playoffs. He’s going to be the biatch of the team.
I don’t think putting Brady in a locker room with a bunch of playoff bound guys and Cup winners from winning teams is going to help our cause. Don’t think 4 nations is going to make Brady commit more to Ottawa, it’ll have the opposite effect
You never know. Watch Team USA go winless and whatever line Tkachuk is on has no chemistry.
It's always weird with international tournaments for me. I want guys on international rosters that are on our team to have a good experience, but I also want their teams to be demolished by Canada. Weird feeling
No disagreement there.
At the end of the day, the Sens existed before Brady Tkachuk and they will exist after him. The situation is what it is. My preference is to move forward with him, I don’t think he’s on board and there’s nothing we can really do about that assuming this season doesn’t turn around. It’s not the end of the world, but I don’t know why people convince themselves the only possible outcome of trading Brady is positive - there’s plenty of opportunity for this to make things even harder.
Hopefully if we do have to move him, we can get a strong return and turn this ship around.
Tuna99
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I saw Keith play in 1986, Brady Tkachuk is going to be the talk of the tournament.
He’s been talking about being under the spotlight since he got here, on his draft day he said he could make the team.
Micklebot
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Problem here is not all hits are equal, a hit from Tkachuk is not the same as a hit from Chabot. It's a bit like comparing Corsi attempts to HDCF.
Physical teams that hit hard wear down the opposition. We used to get lots of hits, but outside of Brady, you wouldn't call us a heavy hitting team. Not everything can be measured in advance stats, but you hear former NHL dmen like York talk about what it was like to play against teams that had guys like Brady coming down at them and it's quite evident why teams covet players like that.
And this doesn't even account for the game changing impact big hits can have on games, we saw it all the time with Neil, guys play bigger when they have guys that will have their back on the team.
