Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[BondraTime]

Tkachuk should always be the 3rd or at worst 2nd best offensive player on his line, especially if it’s our 1st. He plays tough down low, he’s among, if not the best below the hashmarks in the league. Get the puck in those areas and he’ll have success.

If he’s the top offensive guy on his line, or playing with players he doesn’t gel with (a guy like Stutzle who creates off the rush and east/west), your team is probably in trouble. Get him with a talented offensive guy like Batherson, and a Center who is happy to get pucks deep, play a North/South game and create off the cycle like Norris, and he will have a great impact.

His numbers will likely never live up to his contact, his value, whether we think it’s warranted or not, comes from his play style, intangibles and leadership.

 

[DueDiligence]

You guys are weird. Always say how wrong I am but barely attack or discuss my points.

And Brady has not been outplaying Connor Brown. Especially since Batherson went down and we needed Brady to step up.

You are a one trick pony. After a while it gets boring.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You are a one trick pony. After a while it gets boring.

If Brady can only be elite in the small area of below the hashmarks, and he also needs major help from other players to even get the puck into those areas while also being below average on the rest of the ice surface, doesn't it mean that Brady is also sort of a one trick pony?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Every NHL team going back decades that I can remember try & have some big player in front of the net to obscure the goalies vision & pick up the lose change. Remember when Chara has been used that way, Wilson does it for Washington, Florida picked up Hornqvist specifically for this reason & there are lots of others on every team who make their living in that spot as Brady does.

If I'm not mistaken the vast majority of goals are scored within 10 feet of the front of the net. And you need a big guy who can take the punishment that is naturally coming & you need a guy who is willing to go there & take that punishment. Other guys on other lines are suppose to do it as well like Sanford, Paul, Watson & Formenton to a lesser extend. There are also smaller guys like Gallagher who have made a living doing it & take a great deal of punishment for it.

These guys are there to cause some havoc & look for loose pucks & Tkachuk is obviously the best at it on this team which is why he is on the PP. He also leads the team in scoring & has lead the team in scoring now for the 3rd consecutive season. This tells me that not only is he good at it, he's better than anyone else on the team at it & doing exactly what he is paid the big bucks to do & what was expected from him by the team that signed him to that big contract. Fans who like pretty plays are not going to like his style. He is a banger who fights for every inch on every shift & scores what is known as garbage goals around the net which every team wishes they had a guy like that to do. It's not rocket science, it's hard nosed hockey at it's best, that's what they want & get from him.

He doesn't play in front of the net, he plays at the side of the net/on the goal line. He's not in traffic deflecting shots from the point very often so I'm not sure how your point makes any sense. If he was standing in front of the net he wouldn't be able to try those bring it quickly from behind the net and try to jam it through the goalie's pads moves he loves.
If what you were saying were true, his share of PPP would be abysmal as he's currently 6th on the team behind all of Batherson, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris and even C. Brown and only a PP point ahead of Tierney.
Go ahead and give me the whole "he creates opportunity for guys around him and that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet" routine like we haven't been watching this power play all year. I just don't understand why this guy's play is off limits for discussion or criticism. Anyone who tries to ask anything about Brady is given all these bullshit superlatives about he drags his team into the fight and whatever the f*** else. Why can't we have an honest discussion about whether his performance on PP1 merits him staying there?

 

[aragorn]

If Brady can only be elite in the small area of below the hashmarks, and he also needs major help from other players to even get the puck into those areas while also being below average on the rest of the ice surface, doesn't it mean that Brady is also sort of a one trick pony?

Well, he has also shown a knack for making some pretty niffty passing plays that have resulted in goals, he has also scored on breakaways & has scored from other areas. Afterall, he does lead the team in scoring & it's the 3rd time he has done just that & only Norris has 2 more goals than him. He has 21 assists two less than Brown & 5 less than Chabot who leads the team. The majority of the goals in the NHL are scored from in front of the net where he sets up his office & manages to score most of his goals while having 200 lb defencemen pounding on his back.

It has also been mentioned on numerous broadcasts all of the areas in which Tkachuk leads the team &/or NHL & all of the interesting categories where he is ranked with some of the best in the game or former Ottawa players & he is still only 22 yrs old. I still would like to know exactly what more you expect from him? BTW I'm still waiting for them to talk about Stutzle & Brannstrom like that. You said you expected him to outplay C. Brown & I said he has 10 more goals than Brown & 7 more pts & IMO that's outplaying him I believe from a stats perspective & certainly out hits everyone, takes more penalties, more shots on goal, more fights.
What else is there?

 

[aragorn]

He doesn't play in front of the net, he plays at the side of the net/on the goal line. He's not in traffic deflecting shots from the point very often so I'm not sure how your point makes any sense. If he was standing in front of the net he wouldn't be able to try those bring it quickly from behind the net and try to jam it through the goalie's pads moves he loves.
If what you were saying were true, his share of PPP would be abysmal as he's currently 6th on the team behind all of Batherson, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris and even C. Brown and only a PP point ahead of Tierney.
Go ahead and give me the whole "he creates opportunity for guys around him and that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet" routine like we haven't been watching this power play all year. I just don't understand why this guy's play is off limits for discussion or criticism. Anyone who tries to ask anything about Brady is given all these bullshit superlatives about he drags his team into the fight and whatever the f*** else. Why can't we have an honest discussion about whether his performance on PP1 merits him staying there?

His play is certainly up for debate & we are having an honest discussion, we just don't agree with your point of view on Tkachuk. I see him go to the front of the net in every game all the time 5 on 5, but on the PP he is the option outlet pass down low & therefore is on the side of the net. I see him in front of the net trying to tip pucks all the time too. And let's not forget how durable this guy is considering how hard he plays, he doesn't miss many games.

I do agree though after a while it's pointless to argue over style or performance when two sides are so far apart on what they percieve to be happening. I just don't know what more the guy has to do to please people, he leads the team in pts & has lead the team for three consecutive yrs. What else do people want from this guy?

Every broadcast former pro players have all commented on what a beast Tkachuk is & how good he is going to be. How is it that fans of the team he plays for sees his play so differently than them?

 

[JD1]

Tkachuk should always be the 3rd or at worst 2nd best offensive player on his line, especially if it’s our 1st. He plays tough down low, he’s among, if not the best below the hashmarks in the league. Get the puck in those areas and he’ll have success.

If he’s the top offensive guy on his line, or playing with players he doesn’t gel with (a guy like Stutzle who creates off the rush and east/west), your team is probably in trouble. Get him with a talented offensive guy like Batherson, and a Center who is happy to get pucks deep, play a North/South game and create off the cycle like Norris, and he will have a great impact.

His numbers will likely never live up to his contact, his value, whether we think it’s warranted or not, comes from his play style, intangibles and leadership.

I agree with you. I'll add to it that his drop in scoring is related to limited options to play that game with Brady. A rink is 85 feet wide. Brady excels below the dots and coming up and off the wall. For his talent to be maximized, we need players that can play and anticipate that game.

I forget the numbers, but pre Christmas our top line was top 5 in the league in goals for at even strength. We should all be excited about that. It grinds down the other team's best defensive players and it makes the game easier for the lines that follow

There's no aha moment here. Tkachuk plays a heavy down low game. It's not a game you play yourself but do to a lack of options it was a game he was playing himself for 4 or 5 weeks.

 

[JD1]

If Brady can only be elite in the small area of below the hashmarks, and he also needs major help from other players to even get the puck into those areas while also being below average on the rest of the ice surface, doesn't it mean that Brady is also sort of a one trick pony?

You have a definite sweatred/white thing going on.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You have a definite sweatred/white thing going on.

I'm probably over doing it but all of my points are reasonable.

It's the hand waving away of the major flaws Brady is showing, and the notion that he can do no wrong. that is even more ridiculous than my stance.

I mean seriously, what is the excuse of a Senators captain and highest paid player to float on the backcheck like Brady is prone to do? The momentum killing turnovers? The lack of defensive play?

Like can we for one instance imagine the backlash a guy like Spezza would have gotten if he was backchecking like Brady. Or if Spezza got played around with by Keller like that? Or remember how much shit Spezza got for his passes to Caspar? Brady has been way worse. And at least Spezza was trying some visionary 4D chess shit. Brady is flubbing simple two feet passes.

Yet its all okay because leadership and intangibles. When leadership and intangibles is about raising your game and showing attention to detail in all facets of hockey.

The double standard when it comes to Brady is a bit ridiculous.

 

[aragorn]

I'm probably over doing it but all of my points are reasonable.

It's the hand waving away of the major flaws Brady is showing, and the notion that he can do no wrong. that is even more ridiculous than my stance.

I mean seriously, what is the excuse of a Senators captain and highest paid player to float on the backcheck like Brady is prone to do? The momentum killing turnovers? The lack of defensive play?

Like can we for one instance imagine the backlash a guy like Spezza would have gotten if he was backchecking like Brady. Or if Spezza got played around with by Keller like that? Or remember how much shit Spezza got for his passes to Caspar? Brady has been way worse. And at least Spezza was trying some visionary 4D chess shit. Brady is flubbing simple two feet passes.

Yet its all okay because leadership and intangibles. When leadership and intangibles is about raising your game and showing attention to detail in all facets of hockey.

The double standard when it comes to Brady is a bit ridiculous.

There you go again thinking you are right & in your own mind I'm sure you have convinced yourself you are, but there are a number of people on here me included who see it completely differently. We have our own perspective which is counter to yours & while you think you are right we continue to think you are wrong & our opinions are equally right to us.

There is no double standard you keep making things up that we are defending him for some other nefarious reasons, we simply think your opinion of the player is whats wrong & we believe our opinion of the player is the more mainstream view. It's okay that you don't think so, but don't malign our opinion as wrongly defending the player or hiding his faults, that's not what is going on, we simply view him as being a hell of a lot better hockey player than you do. BTW I complained about Spezza's lack of backchecking all the time & got into numerous heated debates about it.

Again you said for him to outplay C. Brown & I proved that he is, yet you won't accept that explanation. You ask for proof I give it to you & you won't accept it. I mentioned how former pro players continue to rave about him on broadcasts & you won't accept that either. I explained to you why he usually goes to the bench & doesn't backcheck sometimes at the end of a shift after working so hard in the offensive zone & you don't accept it. If he stays on the ice he will be too tired to defend. But you never accept any explanation because you don't like that kind of player, just say it.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

There you go again thinking you are right & in your own mind I'm sure you have convinced yourself you are, but there are a number of people on here me included who see it completely differently. We have our own perspective which is counter to yours & while you think you are right we continue to think you are wrong & our opinions are equally right to us.

There is no double standard you keep making things up that we are defending him for some other nefarious reasons, we simply think your opinion of the player is whats wrong & we believe our opinion of the player is the more mainstream view. It's okay that you don't think so, but don't malign our opinion as wrongly defending the player or hiding his faults, that's not what is going on, we simply view him as being a hell of a lot better hockey player than you do. BTW I complained about Spezza's lack of backchecking all the time & got into numerous heated debates about it.

Again you said for him to outplay C. Brown & I proved that he is, yet you won't accept that explanation. You ask for proof I give it to you & you won't accept it. I mentioned how former pro players continue to rave about him on broadcasts & you won't accept that either. I explained to you why he usually goes to the bench & doesn't backcheck sometimes at the end of a shift after working so hard in the offensive zone & you don't accept it. If he stays on the ice he will be too tired to defend. But you never accept any explanation because you don't like that kind of player, just say it.

Brady has not been outplaying Connor Brown recently, I don't know how proved that. You could make an argument for when Brady was playing with Drake but since they have both gotten similar caliber of linemates Brown has flat out played Brady. If you are saying because Brady has more points well Brady has more games and Brown also didn't play with a guy who was pacing for 40 goals and another for 100 points. Brown has had Nick Paul to work with. If they switched linemates do you really think the ppg pace would be equal like it currently is?

It's not me not liking the player its the fact that Brady's lack of backchecking actively hurts the team. Brady being too tired is a genuine excuse but it is not a satisfying excuse for a player not backchecking. Remember how intense Alfie played? and he was still backchecking like a demon when he was 40. being too tired doesn't fly.

And there are instances where Brady clearly isn't too tired to backcheck but he still floats on them probably because he thinks its not his job and he doesn't like doing it. These are bad habits that are only going to get worse.

 

[JungleBeat]

All we need is a Mackinnon and Rantanen to make his contract worth it

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Tkachuk should always be the 3rd or at worst 2nd best offensive player on his line, especially if it’s our 1st. He plays tough down low, he’s among, if not the best below the hashmarks in the league. Get the puck in those areas and he’ll have success.

If he’s the top offensive guy on his line, or playing with players he doesn’t gel with (a guy like Stutzle who creates off the rush and east/west), your team is probably in trouble. Get him with a talented offensive guy like Batherson, and a Center who is happy to get pucks deep, play a North/South game and create off the cycle like Norris, and he will have a great impact.

His numbers will likely never live up to his contact, his value, whether we think it’s warranted or not, comes from his play style, intangibles and leadership.

Isn't this common with power forwards though? Particularly when it comes to 1st lines it seems like the vast majority of premier power forwards (including those that put up impressive offensive numbers) were not the most offensively talented player on their line. There also seems to be a decent number of examples where teams that had a premier power forward as there most capable offensive player weren't a consistent threat to win a cup such as Calgary with Iginla.

Personally, I think Tkachuk has similar offensive upside to Jamie Benn. Benn had some other high end offensive players to play with. In his first few season he had Brad Richards, Mike Ribeiro, Brendan Morrow, Loui Eriksson, and James Neal. Then he had players like Ray Whitney, Jaromir Jagr, Michael Ryder. Then he had players like Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Patrick Sharp.

Tkachuk hasn't been surrounded with similar established offensive talent. If he was then it would be easier to scrutinize what his actual production has been. It also seems logical that he will also see a decent jump in production when surrounded with similar talent to what Benn was surrounded with.

 

[aragorn]

Brady has not been outplaying Connor Brown recently, I don't know how proved that. You could make an argument for when Brady was playing with Drake but since they have both gotten similar caliber of linemates Brown has flat out played Brady. If you are saying because Brady has more points well Brady has more games and Brown also didn't play with a guy who was pacing for 40 goals and another for 100 points. Brown has had Nick Paul to work with. If they switched linemates do you really think the ppg pace would be equal like it currently is?

It's not me not liking the player its the fact that Brady's lack of backchecking actively hurts the team. Brady being too tired is a genuine excuse but it is not a satisfying excuse for a player not backchecking. Remember how intense Alfie played? and he was still backchecking like a demon when he was 40. being too tired doesn't fly.

And there are instances where Brady clearly isn't too tired to backcheck but he still floats on them probably because he thinks its not his job and he doesn't like doing it. These are bad habits that are only going to get worse.

He's leading in pts isn't that the indicator on here? Pacing means nothing I deal in facts. Brown has been playing with Tkachuk & Norris for the last two games. Alfie played a completely different game, not the same at all. I wonder if you were a Edm fan & were constantly complaining about McDavid making $12 mil & the team losing & possibly not making the playoffs how they would feel about that? There are plenty of bad players on this team, Brady is the least of our worries.

 

[ijif]

Isn't this common with power forwards though? Particularly when it comes to 1st lines it seems like the vast majority of premier power forwards (including those that put up impressive offensive numbers) were not the most offensively talented player on their line. There also seems to be a decent number of examples where teams that had a premier power forward as there most capable offensive player weren't a consistent threat to win a cup such as Calgary with Iginla.

Personally, I think Tkachuk has similar offensive upside to Jamie Benn. Benn had some other high end offensive players to play with. In his first few season he had Brad Richards, Mike Ribeiro, Brendan Morrow, Loui Eriksson, and James Neal. Then he had players like Ray Whitney, Jaromir Jagr, Michael Ryder. Then he had players like Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Patrick Sharp.

Tkachuk hasn't been surrounded with similar established offensive talent. If he was then it would be easier to scrutinize what his actual production has been. It also seems logical that he will also see a decent jump in production when surrounded with similar talent to what Benn was surrounded with.

Jamie Benn had a four year run where he was 10th, 1st, 2nd, and 22nd in NHL scoring. Over those four seasons, he was third in NHL scoring. He only trailed Sidney Crosby and Patrick Kane.

 

[Tuna99]

Jamie Benn had a four year run where he was 10th, 1st, 2nd, and 22nd in NHL scoring. Over those four seasons, he was third in NHL scoring. He only trailed Sidney Crosby and Patrick Kane.

If he plays with Shane Wright he could do it

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Jamie Benn had a four year run where he was 10th, 1st, 2nd, and 22nd in NHL scoring. Over those four seasons, he was third in NHL scoring. He only trailed Sidney Crosby and Patrick Kane.

So what's your point? Benn started hitting that production in his 7th season of hockey after being drafted. He got drafted out of the BCHL, then spent two seasons in the WHL before turning pro. He then spent 3 seasons in the NHL and in his 4th season there was a lockout so he split the season between the DEL and NHL. It was his fifth season in the NHL when he experienced that significant jump in production and it was his sixth and seventh seasons (8th and 9th seasons after being drafted) where he produced over a point per game.

Tkachuk is in his 4th season since being drafted. He still has the remainder of this season and two more seasons before he will be at the same point Benn was when he experienced that jump in production. Benn took a while to grow into that player. Why is it that other players are able to grow over the course of their careers but there is this assumption that Tkachuk can't or won't?

Tkachuk has had one season in the NHL where he had the opportunity to play with established top six forwards. That was his first season where he got to play a good portion of it with Mark Stone and Matt Duchene. Ever since then he has played with 3rd liners, unproven talent and rookies. In his second season (2019-20) Tkachuk lead the team in points. The rest of the team was comprised of forwards like Brown, Pageau, Duclair, Tierney, Ennis, Namestnikov, White and Anisimov. The majority of those players hadn't proven the ability to produce more than 40 points to 45 points, or if they had their recent production prior to them joining the Sens was trending downwards.

In his 3rd season (2020-21) they brought in Dadanov who struggled to produce, they saw a decline in production by the likes of White and Tierney. Tkachuk got to play with Batherson and Norris who were still unproven at the NHL level and both players as rookies went through stretches where they looked excellent and stretches where they struggled but in the end they had good production. This season, his 4th, he had a chance to play with Norris and Batherson who had finally proven to have solid production and Tkachuk's production looked like it was going to end up pretty close to a point per game. But then Batherson got injured and then Norris got injured as well. So Tkachuk was back to playing with mostly 3rd liners or with good but unproven talents such as Stützle and Formenton.

Look at the players on Benn's team in his first few seasons. There was a significant amount more of proven and established top six talent. Tkachuk can continue to develop and like Benn he will benefit from being surrounded by stronger offensive players.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

He doesn't play in front of the net, he plays at the side of the net/on the goal line. He's not in traffic deflecting shots from the point very often so I'm not sure how your point makes any sense. If he was standing in front of the net he wouldn't be able to try those bring it quickly from behind the net and try to jam it through the goalie's pads moves he loves.
If what you were saying were true, his share of PPP would be abysmal as he's currently 6th on the team behind all of Batherson, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris and even C. Brown and only a PP point ahead of Tierney.
Go ahead and give me the whole "he creates opportunity for guys around him and that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet" routine like we haven't been watching this power play all year. I just don't understand why this guy's play is off limits for discussion or criticism. Anyone who tries to ask anything about Brady is given all these bullshit superlatives about he drags his team into the fight and whatever the f*** else. Why can't we have an honest discussion about whether his performance on PP1 merits him staying there?

I don't think Brady is off-limits but look at the talent around him, is crap. There aren't any elite forwards like Marner or Marchessault or Kucherov, just some good to better than good guys. So obviously Brady isn't going to pot 40+ on this team. Once Dorion gets him an elite pivot, he'll put the numbers up. He can still draw penalties quite well and agitate, which are also important elements.

 

[TheDebater]

I know it is only a handful of members if not less who are outspoken with their negative opinion of Brady, but my goodness is it such a narrow minded opinion.

To put things into perspective, this idea that Brady Tkachuk needs to somehow score 75+ points to justify his contract is simply unrealistic and unjustified, considering the player.

Brady Tkachuk has 191 hits so far this season, the most on the team of course, and do you know who is 2nd and 3rd? Watson and Sanford who have a combined 48 hits more than Brady, only 48, combined, as in two players. Watson has 122 hits and his main job is to be physical and play a specific role on this team, yet Brady still does it better while also being great at other aspects of the game.

Do some of you understand how difficult it is to play that type of style, every game, while taking a beating infront of the net....and still managing to score and put up points? Do you know how absolutely rare that type of player is in the NHL??

Even with all that physicality he displays and exerts every single game, Tkachuk currently leads the team in points, and even if Batherson was healthy and led the team in points, Brady would be right there at #2 or at worst #3 and it is definitely fair to assume he would have way more points than he does now if Norris and Batherson were not injured at the same time.

 

[JungleBeat]

I know it is only a handful of members if not less who are outspoken with their negative opinion of Brady, but my goodness is it such a narrow minded opinion.

To put things into perspective, this idea that Brady Tkachuk needs to somehow score 75+ points to justify his contract is simply unrealistic and unjustified, considering the player.

Brady Tkachuk has 191 hits so far this season, the most on the team of course, and do you know who is 2nd and 3rd? Watson and Sanford who have a combined 48 hits more than Brady, only 48, combined, as in two players. Watson has 122 hits and his main job is to be physical and play a specific role on this team, yet Brady still does it better while also being great at other aspects of the game.

Do some of you understand how difficult it is to play that type of style, every game, while taking a beating infront of the net....and still managing to score and put up points? Do you know how absolutely rare that type of player is in the NHL??

Even with all that physicality he displays and exerts every single game, Tkachuk currently leads the team in points, and even if Batherson was healthy and led the team in points, Brady would be right there at #2 or at worst #3 and it is definitely fair to assume he would have way more points than he does now if Norris and Batherson were not injured at the same time.

Worth his contract because he hits a lot? I would leave those duties to the bottom six.

 

[TheDebater]

Worth his contract because he hits a lot? I would leave those duties to the bottom six.

Did you actually read my entire post? Lame response if so.

 

[JungleBeat]

Did you actually read my entire post? Lame response if so.

Yes, it was basically a bunch of fluff about physicality.

 

[TheDebater]

Yes, it was basically a bunch of fluff about physicality.

He has 18 goals this season, he leads the team in points, and there are still plenty of games to be played in the season. He will probably end up with 23-25 goals this year, and this being an off year with no training camp, Covid issues, injuries to both his linemates for an extended time...yet most players who play a physical style of play in the NHL only dream about scoring 20 goals.

The reason I bring up physicality is to highlight how difficult and rare it is to have a player who excels at it, plays on your 1st line and also has the easy potential to score 30 goals., probably more than once in his career.

Are you connecting the dots yet or do I need to go for another 3 or 4 posts?

 

[JungleBeat]

yet most players who play a physical style of play in the NHL only dream about scoring 20 goals.

Wilson, Ovie, Kane, Landeskog, Svechnikov, Benn, Anderson, Meier, Bennett, Bettuzzi etc

More common than you think.

 

[GCK]

Worth his contract because he hits a lot? I would leave those duties to the bottom six.

I think even the most ardent Brady supporters, of which I am one, realize we overpaid by about 750K-1M, but who cares, it doesn’t diminish the fact he is a top line player who produces and leads.