Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Evilhomer]

Very, very conservative off-season. The team got better, but not drastically.

He did a good job retaining the young players from last year.
Taking another step will hinge on massive improvements from guys like Liljergren, Knies, Benoit, Holmberg etc.

From what I've seen over the first year, Treiliving is a much more cautious manager compared to Dubas.

I think this is right, but to be fair I think the entire Leafs organization is pretty conservative.

 

[conFABulator]

I think this is right, but to be fair I think the entire Leafs organization is pretty conservative.

I feel like Treliving probably did just about everything he could to make change this off-season.

I wanted Marner moved and that move on top of what was done would have made this the largest off season of change in Leaf history. Alas, he has a NMC. So does just about everyone else that would have led to "big changes".

As it stands...

- we have a new coach and coaches
- we have a new captain
- we have two or three new defensemen, two in the top four
- we have a new tandem goalie
- and we have not extended Marner or Tavares with long term, high AAV deals or even stated that it is a priority to do so (as they did with 34 and 88 last year).
- we seem to have ice time available for young players to earn (Cowan, Grebyenkin, Minten, Robertson, Holmberg, Steeves).

...and we don't know what philosophy and approach the new coaches bring, but will soon find out. We know that Tre wanted Willy at C and that last ten days in camp, will this get a longer look? Will we see JT as 3C and finally spread out the scoring? OEL on PP1?

I don't know what more change Treliving could have brought this off-season given the constraints.

I think the impact of the coaching change gets under stated around here. You can't get fire the whole team, but you can fire the coach. St. Louis did this a few years ago and took a last place team to SC champions....with Berube.

 

[Evilhomer]

I feel like Treliving probably did just about everything he could to make change this off-season.

I wanted Marner moved and that move on top of what was done would have made this the largest off season of change in Leaf history. Alas, he has a NMC. So does just about everyone else that would have led to "big changes".

As it stands...

- we have a new coach and coaches
- we have a new captain
- we have two or three new defensemen, two in the top four
- we have a new tandem goalie
- and we have not extended Marner or Tavares with long term, high AAV deals or even stated that it is a priority to do so (as they did with 34 and 88 last year).
- we seem to have ice time available for young players to earn (Cowan, Grebyenkin, Minten, Robertson, Holmberg, Steeves).

...and we don't know what philosophy and approach the new coaches bring, but will soon find out. We know that Tre wanted Willy at C and that last ten days in camp, will this get a longer look? Will we see JT as 3C and finally spread out the scoring? OEL on PP1?

I don't know what more change Treliving could have brought this off-season given the constraints.

I think the impact of the coaching change gets under stated around here. You can't get fire the whole team, but you can fire the coach. St. Louis did this a few years ago and took a last place team to SC champions....with Berube.

I think Berube is going to win coach of the year, the team will win the division, and go at least two or three rounds deep in the playoffs, if not better. But I also didn't think massive roster changes were needed, particularly to the top end players. I think almost everyone will be eating their words when it comes to Marner.

 

[conFABulator]

I think Berube is going to win coach of the year, the team will win the division, and go at least two or three rounds deep in the playoffs, if not better. But I also didn't think massive roster changes were needed, particularly to the top end players. I think almost everyone will be eating their words when it comes to Marner.

I hope you are right, and believe you might be. I was never in the "dump Marner" camp. I wanted him moved if we could get fair value and I think he has a lot of value.

I liked the framework of the discussed Seattle deal. Say, Marner for Wright, Oleksiak and a draft pick. That deal would be have come with $6M+ in cap space that we could turn into Lindholm or Roy. Who knows if we could have pulled that off?

I don't think I will be eating my words, because I think Marner can reach a new playoff level this year. I am.not SURE of this of course. I do not want to re-sign him until we see if he can.

 

[Evilhomer]

I hope you are right, and believe you might be. I was never in the "dump Marner" camp. I wanted him moved if we could get fair value and I think he has a lot of value.

I liked the framework of the discussed Seattle deal. Say, Marner for Wright, Oleksiak and a draft pick. That deal would be have come with $6M+ in cap space that we could turn into Lindholm or Roy. Who knows if we could have pulled that off?

I don't think I will be eating my words, because I think Marner can reach a new playoff level this year. I am.not SURE of this of course. I do not want to re-sign him until we see if he can.

I think the Leafs will resign Marner well before the playoffs.

 

[conFABulator]

I think the Leafs will resign Marner well before the playoffs.

Tell me why that is a good idea. Serious question.

I can agree with this plan if he takes a hometown discount and not a full NMC.

Without this, how could it possibly make any sense?

 

[GoonieFace]

I think Berube is going to win coach of the year, the team will win the division, and go at least two or three rounds deep in the playoffs, if not better. But I also didn't think massive roster changes were needed, particularly to the top end players. I think almost everyone will be eating their words when it comes to Marner.

Hopefully Marner does, but it still shouldn’t dismiss the past 7 or 8 years of utter failure.

Still not convinced this team will be any better. Tanev is ancient, OEL was basically a write off before last season. These are the types of moves Leaf fans would bash other teams over, but since the Leafs made the moves, it’s brilliance.

 

[ACC1224]

Tell me why that is a good idea. Serious question.

I can agree with this plan if he takes a hometown discount and not a full NMC.

Without this, how could it possibly make any sense?

It makes sense not to have the issue hanging over the team, being constantly questioned. IMO, everything should have been resolved one way or the other before the season starts. There is still time but it doesn’t look like that will be the case.

 

[Evilhomer]

Tell me why that is a good idea. Serious question.

I can agree with this plan if he takes a hometown discount and not a full NMC.

Without this, how could it possibly make any sense?

Whether it's a good idea is a different point. I just think it's what the Leafs will do. I think it will be very similar to the Nylander situation, except they may even sign Marner earlier than they did Nylander.

 

[Sypher04]

I feel like Treliving probably did just about everything he could to make change this off-season.

I wanted Marner moved and that move on top of what was done would have made this the largest off season of change in Leaf history. Alas, he has a NMC. So does just about everyone else that would have led to "big changes".

As it stands...

- we have a new coach and coaches
- we have a new captain
- we have two or three new defensemen, two in the top four
- we have a new tandem goalie
- and we have not extended Marner or Tavares with long term, high AAV deals or even stated that it is a priority to do so (as they did with 34 and 88 last year).
- we seem to have ice time available for young players to earn (Cowan, Grebyenkin, Minten, Robertson, Holmberg, Steeves).

...and we don't know what philosophy and approach the new coaches bring, but will soon find out. We know that Tre wanted Willy at C and that last ten days in camp, will this get a longer look? Will we see JT as 3C and finally spread out the scoring? OEL on PP1?

I don't know what more change Treliving could have brought this off-season given the constraints.

I think the impact of the coaching change gets under stated around here. You can't get fire the whole team, but you can fire the coach. St. Louis did this a few years ago and took a last place team to SC champions....with Berube.

Changing out the entire coaching staff is potentially the single largest culture shift you can make in a team in one offseason but people don’t really want to talk about it for whatever reason.

The talking heads speak about wanting change, but they have such a rigid view of what counts as meaningful change. To a lot of folks around here/online in particular if it wasn’t Mitch or JT out it doesn’t count, which is frankly asinine.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Changing out the entire coaching staff is potentially the single largest culture shift you can make in a team in one offseason but people don’t really want to talk about it for whatever reason.

The talking heads speak about wanting change, but they have such a rigid view of what counts as meaningful change. To a lot of folks around here/online in particular if it wasn’t Mitch or JT out it doesn’t count, which is frankly asinine.

Also risk losing your job as GM/President just because fans want a blood letting. Losing JT/Marner would greatly depreciate the team. So instead of poor playoff results, we get no playoffs.

 

[ALine]

I’m generally optimistic. Coaching overhaul before moving any core guys I think is the right play here. Let’s see how they respond.

As for dealing with Marner, he’s going to need to play some real hardball here. Present him with an offer the team is comfortable with and tell him it won’t change by next June, but may be rescinded by then. Makes it clear where he stands here, and if he’s not onboard with that, it makes it in his best interest to work with Treliving about waiving.

Cautiously optimistic about our situation in net. Woll I think will be great, but can we get enough games out of him and Stolarz.
Short of having one of the few premier starters in the league, I think a cheaper tandem with upside is preferable to those mid range, more expensive guys with plenty of question marks themselves. The markstrom, Gibson, kuemper’s don’t excite me as much for what your paying vs something like our Woll/ Stolarz tandem.

 

[bax]

I think Berube is going to win coach of the year, the team will win the division, and go at least two or three rounds deep in the playoffs, if not better. But I also didn't think massive roster changes were needed, particularly to the top end players. I think almost everyone will be eating their words when it comes to Marner.

Sounds good. I was one of the few who believed you last year. I’ll do it again this year too

Whether it's a good idea is a different point. I just think it's what the Leafs will do. I think it will be very similar to the Nylander situation, except they may even sign Marner earlier than they did Nylander.

I’m still expecting it before the season starts to eliminate any distractions. With Matthews being named captain I’d say it’s a guarantee now.

 

[LeafEgo]

I’m still expecting it before the season starts to eliminate any distractions. With Matthews being named captain I’d say it’s a guarantee now.

The optics couldn't get much worse for mgmt than looking to move a player, to not holding contract talks, to not commenting on the players future and showing no enthusiasm whatsoever in contrast to previous deals, to just signing the player for 100M with a NMC anyways a few weeks later.

It would indicate that they have no vision whatsoever on what they're trying to do with this team.

 

[ACC1224]

The optics couldn't get much worse for mgmt than looking to move a player, to not holding contract talks, to not commenting on the players future and showing no enthusiasm whatsoever in contrast to previous deals, to just signing the player for 100M with a NMC anyways a few weeks later.

It would indicate that they have no vision whatsoever on what they're trying to do with this team.

Good one. (Unless you’re serious )

 

[notDatsyuk]

Also risk losing your job as GM/President just because fans want a blood letting. Losing JT/Marner would greatly depreciate the team. So instead of poor playoff results, we get no playoffs.

Correct to an extent. Losing either JT or Mitch for what we are likely to get back in a forced trade just to make "a big change" will likely not benefit the team.

Particularly in JT's case, it's probably better to wait for his contract to expire and either sign him for a reasonable amount or let him walk.

Mitch you have a better chance of pulling off a trade for some value, most likely closer to the trade deadline, always assuming he's willing to waive.

I'm not sure trading either or both would necessarily mean no playoffs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It makes sense not to have the issue hanging over the team, being constantly questioned. IMO, everything should have been resolved one way or the other before the season starts. There is still time but it doesn’t look like that will be the case.

It makes sense to sign them to extensions before the season, as it did with Matthews and should have done with Nylander last year. But that's assuming that Tre both wants them back, and can get a deal he likes.

He was pretty clear about wanting to sign Matty and Willy last year, but not so much with JT and Mitch this year.

 

[Nineteen67]

Changing out the entire coaching staff is potentially the single largest culture shift you can make in a team in one offseason but people don’t really want to talk about it for whatever reason.

The talking heads speak about wanting change, but they have such a rigid view of what counts as meaningful change. To a lot of folks around here/online in particular if it wasn’t Mitch or JT out it doesn’t count, which is frankly asinine.

If it fails, it’s over for the core and they’ll shift into the Cowan era. Which probably needs to happen anyway.
We don’t know if he’s any good, but we know the others have yet to show they have enough talent to win a couple of rounds.

 

[conFABulator]

It makes sense not to have the issue hanging over the team, being constantly questioned. IMO, everything should have been resolved one way or the other before the season starts. There is still time but it doesn’t look like that will be the case.

Ok, that would be the argument in favour of signing him now for sure. Again, only with a discount and favourable terms, no?

I am not in favour of 5 x $13M with NMC. If he doesn't produce in these playoffs I would rather see him walk and spend 13M elsewhere.

Let's see him play with the pressure od a contract at stake and with distractions. That's playing in Toronto and if you want $13M, then handle it.

Whether it's a good idea is a different point. I just think it's what the Leafs will do. I think it will be very similar to the Nylander situation, except they may even sign Marner earlier than they did Nylander.

Maybe, those two are not the same though. Nylander was underpaid the past few year and performed in the playoffs.

 

[conFABulator]

Changing out the entire coaching staff is potentially the single largest culture shift you can make in a team in one offseason but people don’t really want to talk about it for whatever reason.

The talking heads speak about wanting change, but they have such a rigid view of what counts as meaningful change. To a lot of folks around here/online in particular if it wasn’t Mitch or JT out it doesn’t count, which is frankly asinine.

Yep. I wanted Marner moved in a hockey trade (not a dump) if we could get value (players/prospects/cap space) but also knew he could block anything, as could JT thought I didn't expect him to move at all.

We can and will be a wildly different team next year with coaching, D, and better goaltending...throw in youth battling for jobs. This was a a lot of change.

 

[bax]

The optics couldn't get much worse for mgmt than looking to move a player, to not holding contract talks, to not commenting on the players future and showing no enthusiasm whatsoever in contrast to previous deals, to just signing the player for 100M with a NMC anyways a few weeks later.

It would indicate that they have no vision whatsoever on what they're trying to do with this team.

Didn’t Matthews contract come out of nowhere too last August? Not talking about what they’re doing is not only fine but probably best. Most of this stuff is all fan and social media driven. We have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes because his contract isn’t imminent yet. If it reaches the end of the season then we’ll start hearing more. I’m just guessing they’ll wrap it up sooner rather than later.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If Marner is resigned we’ll know one thing:

The Leafs are just about selling Jerseys

 

[bax]

If Marner is resigned we’ll know one thing:

The Leafs are just about selling Jerseys

Unless the 7th round pick that they can get for him turns into a player who wears a jersey too. Then they can sell that.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I feel like Treliving probably did just about everything he could to make change this off-season.

I wanted Marner moved and that move on top of what was done would have made this the largest off season of change in Leaf history. Alas, he has a NMC. So does just about everyone else that would have led to "big changes".

As it stands...

- we have a new coach and coaches
- we have a new captain
- we have two or three new defensemen, two in the top four
- we have a new tandem goalie
- and we have not extended Marner or Tavares with long term, high AAV deals or even stated that it is a priority to do so (as they did with 34 and 88 last year).
- we seem to have ice time available for young players to earn (Cowan, Grebyenkin, Minten, Robertson, Holmberg, Steeves).

...and we don't know what philosophy and approach the new coaches bring, but will soon find out. We know that Tre wanted Willy at C and that last ten days in camp, will this get a longer look? Will we see JT as 3C and finally spread out the scoring? OEL on PP1?

I don't know what more change Treliving could have brought this off-season given the constraints.

I think the impact of the coaching change gets under stated around here. You can't get fire the whole team, but you can fire the coach. St. Louis did this a few years ago and took a last place team to SC champions....with Berube.

This is all true .. but fallacy here is NO NHL team can afford to have half of CAP tied up on 4 forwards .. it can't work no matter what else is done on roster construction in a CAPed league designed to build in mediocrity/evenness into teams thru a CBA .. hockey is a game of balance and reality is if it tips any way at all for Cups it tips in favor of D/G not Fs .. as many teams have won with very limited Fs and loaded up on G/Ds .. bottom line this season is a write off to us long term subscribers who can't wait for season to be done and next year to start .. at least there will be CAP money to roster da team effective for Cup runs in 2025/6 .. Mitch will leave team without compensation and JT will take on a much lower AAV as 3rd line LWer and/or retire .. then da roster can be retooled effectively .. to me i would rather have team forced Mitchs hand and told him we want to trade you or else we will sit you to start season .. then his value come next contract will drop significantly due to not playing (it happens to every player who doesn't play) .. sometimes as a leader you have to be a bit nasty in building a team .. we are too much of a nice guy run org .. teams like tampa cats and bruins don't .. bottom line is eventually Mitch would have caved in and accpeted a trade to help team get a top D and a pick for him .. he was very much overpaid in his contract (although not his fault) and he would get no support from da fan base .. Berube or any coach(s) only affects 20% of results .. 80% of results in hockey is recruiting and roster building .. we are doomed this upcoming season

 

[ACC1224]

Unless the 7th round pick that they can get for him turns into a player who wears a jersey too. Then they can sell that.

Why would anyone buy a Marner jersey?
Thought everyone hates that guy.

Frothers continually make no sense.