Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Racer88]

Oops - you seem to have diverted the thread. nuck was agreeing with me that Dubas blew the Tavares deal, and you're talking about Pelly. Different time and GM.

Ya, you’re right. My bad

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Oops - you seem to have diverted the thread. nuck was agreeing with me that Dubas blew the Tavares deal, and you're talking about Pelly. Different time and GM.

Why were you talking about Dubas and the Tavares signing in a thread about Treliving's offseason though?

 

[nuck]

Oops - you seem to have diverted the thread. nuck was agreeing with me that Dubas blew the Tavares deal, and you're talking about Pelly. Different time and GM.

Both things actually. JT was a poor idea because he was the first step in driving a cap disposition that made defense a secondary band-aid fix for every year after that. The other NMs weren't in place till last summer so the cap disposition, if not the player, was always correctable but that was ignored. $40M on 4 forwards never stopped being a good idea to these wizards.

Finally they remove Kyle and the new regime of Tre/Shanny not only fail to make any adjustment last summer but instead end up signing Willie to that ridiculous deal. FFS it was like they let Kyle come back to negotiate it. I think Tre was shell shocked from losing Tkachuk and Gaudreau and getting rag dolled was better to him then the player not signing.

This summer Pelly/Shanny talk more clearly of "everything being on the table" but the changes aren't there. People need to remember Keefe was fired before the Pelley presser and they put almost no blame on him for past failures. So that was/is on the table then?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I'm here to praise him.

I like his free agent signings. His mission was to improve the defense and he's done it.

I know you're frothing at the mouth to come in here and talk about term, but I just see this as a necessary way to compete with the other GMs.

Good: Domi, Tanev, OEL
OK: Woll and Stolarz
We'll see: Liljegren and Hakanpaa.

When you see the money and term players like Roy or Zadorov got, you can see why he went with CT, JK, and OEL.

I know Tre has a tendency to get most of his work done in the offseason. He's not done IMHO.

My grade: A-

He's improved the PK, and the PP. These were things that TOR desperately needed.

I'd like to see your grading as well.

Go Leafs Go

GLG .. for sure the D is better .. no one can argue adding Tanev and OEL gives team 2 top 4 dmen .. with Benoit and McCabe already there we have a much improved D .. Rielly really turned me OFF in a massive way with da game 7 OT goal which is largely on him .. i can't forgive him and Mitch to a lesser extent for that one .. a top 4 D just does not make that kind of MASSIVE error .. those 2 guys need to go and go fast .. and Lily well in my books this is his last year to show me he can play top 4 otherwise it is time to unload him too .. so overall yes our D is better but it is still not good enough to get through 2 playoff rounds .. we need 2 more D .. when you have 6 D who can all play playoff hockey then you have a fighters chance to advance .. this crew although better is still not good enough .. Tre my advice is figure out a way to trade Rielly for a 2C and a pick and trade Mitch for a top 2D and a pick .. then I would give him an A+ .. right now it is B level mgmt

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why were you talking about Dubas and the Tavares signing in a thread about Treliving's offseason though?

I was just agreeing with nineteen67's post about Dubas admitting he screwed up. I'm certainly not the one who brought it up.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Both things actually. JT was a poor idea because he was the first step in driving a cap disposition that made defense a secondary band-aid fix for every year after that. The other NMs weren't in place till last summer so the cap disposition, if not the player, was always correctable but that was ignored. $40M on 4 forwards never stopped being a good idea to these wizards.

Finally they remove Kyle and the new regime of Tre/Shanny not only fail to make any adjustment last summer but instead end up signing Willie to that ridiculous deal. FFS it was like they let Kyle come back to negotiate it. I think Tre was shell shocked from losing Tkachuk and Gaudreau and getting rag dolled was better to him then the player not signing.

This summer Pelly/Shanny talk more clearly of "everything being on the table" but the changes aren't there. People need to remember Keefe was fired before the Pelley presser and they put almost no blame on him for past failures. So was/is on the table then?

Yeah, there haven't been the 'big changes' yet, but I'm not surprised.

The posters complaining the most about no changes are the same ones saying there's no way either of the two big changes can be made this summer, and several are adamant that one of them shouldn't be made.

There also seems to be the idea floating around that Tre not trading Nylander last summer means he didn't follow Pelley's mandate made this summer.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I agree that his bad negotiations with Willy, Mitch, and Matty were a big problem, but I'm a little surprised that he still thinks signing a slow 2C that we didn't need to an $11x7 contract was a good idea.

He wasn't a 2C when he was signed, you can blame Dubas for A LOT, and I certainly do, but EVERYBODY would have signed that contract.

You can blame Dubas for the shit Kadri trade, or for not properly addressing the backup and constantly bringing back Hutchinson.

Or for originally gifting the job to Sparks.

Or the Marchment trade.

The Mrazek signing

Most recently the Karlsson trade.

I could make a list a mile long the guy is a shit GM.



But signing a 27 year old #1 center is always, ALWAYS a good move

 

[Sypher04]

Something I was thinking about, no real directly appropriate place for it I think, but I also don’t think every thought that pops into my head is thread worthy either, so I’m putting it here.

I know there is a prevailing thought process out there that it was Florida’s trade of Huberdeau & Weegar for Tkachuk that changed the course of their club to becoming a winner, and sure that’s a big trade, but somewhat lost in the drama, headlines of such a big move, is that this was also the same offseason they brought in Paul Maurice as their new coach.

I’m not sure their success the last two years is attributable to anyone moreso than Maurice and yet it’s never really talked about. This Panthers club fed off his leadership and embodied the attitude of their coach as much as anyone I’ve watched in recent memory.

 

[Hellcat]

 

[hamzarocks]

D+/C- offseason

Signed a 34 year old #3D for 6 bloody years.

Signed OEL a #5D for 3.5M x 4 not great deal for a bottom pairing player who wont change much

No Marner or Tavares trade, didnt look to be aggresive and move them, losibg leverage and likely hurting us throughout next year

Got Domi on a great deal which saved his offseason

 

[weems]

Something I was thinking about, no real directly appropriate place for it I think, but I also don’t think every thought that pops into my head is thread worthy either, so I’m putting it here.

I know there is a prevailing thought process out there that it was Florida’s trade of Huberdeau & Weegar for Tkachuk that changed the course of their club to becoming a winner, and sure that’s a big trade, but somewhat lost in the drama, headlines of such a big move, is that this was also the same offseason they brought in Paul Maurice as their new coach.

I’m not sure their success the last two years is attributable to anyone moreso than Maurice and yet it’s never really talked about. This Panthers club fed off his leadership and embodied the attitude of their coach as much as anyone I’ve watched in recent memory.

Coaching can be such a big thing sometimes.
Some coaches are better at building from the ground up (rebuld) while others are better at being able to push some teams over the line.
The game of hockey and alot of championship seasons is built on hard work and total buy in. So much of game from overall team defence, to all the little subtle things that result in success are rooted in consistent work ethic. I don't buy that this group has shown everything they can in this area and too often they fall into the mindset of we'll beat you with our superior skill and don't want to put in the hard yards.

I think there's still another level of intensity and buy in that needs to happen if we want to be champions. Hopefully Berube can bring this out of them because I definitely think we have the overall talent to win.

 

[HockeyVirus]

D+/C- offseason

Signed a 34 year old #3D for 6 bloody years.

Signed OEL a #5D for 3.5M x 4 not great deal for a bottom pairing player who wont change much

No Marner or Tavares trade, didnt look to be aggresive and move them, losibg leverage and likely hurting us throughout next year

Got Domi on a great deal which saved his offseason

I mean we are in a win now window.. We have 4 years (Matthews term) he is not re-signing with us if we don't get close by then. We need a deep run this season. All of these deals are signed with the next few years in mind.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I would say Tre did the best he could. But just like the little boy who cried wolf, the Leaf fans have been lied to too many times. They waited too long to make changes and those changes weren't very dramatic. This team right now isn't nearly good enough to win a cup and the fans know it. Blowing smoke up their backsides again won't work. Keeping Marner means they will be fired next summer. I give Tre a grade of C. I actually believe next year some fans won't bother to show up for games. No one cares what this team does reg season anymore. It's also bad for the NHL because fans don't believe a Cdn team will be allowed to win a cup anyway.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He wasn't a 2C when he was signed, you can blame Dubas for A LOT, and I certainly do, but EVERYBODY would have signed that contract.

You can blame Dubas for the shit Kadri trade, or for not properly addressing the backup and constantly bringing back Hutchinson.

Or for originally gifting the job to Sparks.

Or the Marchment trade.

The Mrazek signing

Most recently the Karlsson trade.

I could make a list a mile long the guy is a shit GM.



But signing a 27 year old #1 center is always, ALWAYS a good move

Except for when you have Matthews, and know that Tavares will be a 2C after the first year, and you already have other 2Cs.

And not "EVERYBODY would have signed that contract." I didn't like it from the start, and there are others in the same position.

But yes, that certainly wasn't the only one of his many mistakes.

 

[notDatsyuk]

D+/C- offseason

Signed a 34 year old #3D for 6 bloody years.

Signed OEL a #5D for 3.5M x 4 not great deal for a bottom pairing player who wont change much

No Marner or Tavares trade, didnt look to be aggresive and move them, losibg leverage and likely hurting us throughout next year

Got Domi on a great deal which saved his offseason

I'm not sure Tavares was tradable at all, and we might benefit more from letting Marner walk than forcing a bad trade.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I know there is a prevailing thought process out there that it was Florida’s trade of Huberdeau & Weegar for Tkachuk that changed the course of their club to becoming a winner, and sure that’s a big trade, but somewhat lost in the drama, headlines of such a big move, is that this was also the same offseason they brought in Paul Maurice as their new coach.

The thing is, nothing changed for Florida after bringing in Tkachuk and Maurice. They were pretty much the same team with the same strengths and weaknesses, and they weren't very good in the playoffs. They just got hard carried by Bobrovsky. It was only this past year that they saw actual change; doing a complete 180 defensively.

It's kind of funny, because Florida is pointed to so often, but they actually destroy the most common arguments around here. Their big shift and winning a cup came with non-core changes and tinkering with their depth, and the core change they made previously was to trade for a mid-20s star winger that many considered a playoff bust.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

It’s just lip service or his standards are low low

 

[IPS]

The thing is, nothing changed for Florida after bringing in Tkachuk and Maurice. They were pretty much the same team with the same strengths and weaknesses, and they weren't very good in the playoffs. They just got hard carried by Bobrovsky. It was only this past year that they saw actual change; doing a complete 180 defensively.

It's kind of funny, because Florida is pointed to so often, but they actually destroy the most common arguments around here. Their big shift and winning a cup came with non-core changes and tinkering with their depth, and the core change they made previously was to trade for a mid-20s star winger that many considered a playoff bust.

"Nothing changed after Florida changed their core and head coach!"

They've literally went to the finals twice and have won the cup.

Imagine being this daft.

 

[Dekes For Days]

"Nothing changed after Florida changed their core and head coach!"
They've literally went to the finals twice and have won the cup.

Well, the core player and the head coach changed, but it didn't make any real impact for the team.
They made the finals because they didn't move off a core player with a poor history of playoff performance, and he carried them.
They then saw significant changes to the team this past year and won a cup, after making non-core changes and tinkering with their depth.

 

[IPS]

They made the finals because they didn't move off a core player with a poor history of playoff performance, and he carried them.

You're not carrying shit with a .906 sv%, the team in front of him was clearly the best team in the league. And they traded off choker Huberdeau for Tkachuk, and Florida's management was clearly smarter than everyone who was calling Tkachuk a playoff choker, it was clearly the team he was on that was holding him back.

Your hockey knowledge is just so terrible, you need to stop.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're not carrying shit with a .906 sv%, the team in front of him was clearly the best team in the league.

He carried them in 2022-2023, and you're referencing a SV% from 2023-2024.

And they traded off choker Huberdeau for Tkachuk

At the time of the trade, Huberdeau had produced better in the playoffs than Tkachuk, and Tkachuk was considered a playoff choker.

Florida's management was clearly smarter than everyone who was calling Tkachuk a playoff choker

Yeah, it's a good thing Florida management didn't listen to ridiculous fans labelling a mid-20s star winger a playoff choker, eh?

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

D-. Signed 34 year old injury prone mid-level D for 6 years. Too scared to ruffle feathers, will overpay Marner and re-sign Tavares. Made a selfish coward the captain. Makes stupid jokes at every press conference.

 

[Racer88]

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It’s just lip service or his standards are low low

I guess we can’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. They said everything was on the table but here we are running the same crap back again with the usual tinkering around the edges. The entire Leafs management is a total joke from Shanny’s new boss right on down

 

[Racer88]

Well, the core player and the head coach changed, but it didn't make any real impact for the team.
They made the finals because they didn't move off a core player with a poor history of playoff performance, and he carried them.
They then saw significant changes to the team this past year and won a cup, after making non-core changes and tinkering with their depth.

We have been doing that for the last 8 years and failing miserably.
Which one of our core 4 do you think is going to lead this team to victory this year

 

[jaric1862]

Very, very conservative off-season. The team got better, but not drastically.

He did a good job retaining the young players from last year.
Taking another step will hinge on massive improvements from guys like Liljergren, Knies, Benoit, Holmberg etc.

From what I've seen over the first year, Treiliving is a much more cautious manager compared to Dubas.