Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[LeafSteel]

Changing out the entire coaching staff is potentially the single largest culture shift you can make in a team in one offseason but people don’t really want to talk about it for whatever reason.

The talking heads speak about wanting change, but they have such a rigid view of what counts as meaningful change. To a lot of folks around here/online in particular if it wasn’t Mitch or JT out it doesn’t count, which is frankly asinine.

Great post.

Keefe should have never had the head coaching job. He was not equaling he didn’t have the balls nor the heft to treat all players equally and accountable, and he was complete ass when it came to developing our young guys.

Not only looking forward to seeing our new UFA additions. Also looking forward to seeing our returning players and guys like Minten and Cowan.

I think Liljegren and Robertson (if he’s still around) will benefit from a new coach. Keefe stifled their development and I’m sure neither of them were sad to see him leave.

As disappointed as I was to not see Marner traded and missing out on Lindholm and Roy, moving on from Keefe was a desperately long overdue move and the basis of any improvement we are going to see from this team.

All thing considered, I think we are finally going to see real leadership behind the bench that don’t give a damn about hurting anyone’s feelings.

 

[conFABulator]

The optics couldn't get much worse for mgmt than looking to move a player, to not holding contract talks, to not commenting on the players future and showing no enthusiasm whatsoever in contrast to previous deals, to just signing the player for 100M with a NMC anyways a few weeks later.

It would indicate that they have no vision whatsoever on what they're trying to do with this team.

Optics is one thing, let's also assume they want to do what is right and not just what looks right.

How about this for change? Let one of the core four play for a contract and don't just hand them and extend and increase. I think JT and Marner are different.

JT can get an extension. It should be deeply discounted, not just when compared to his last deal but when compared to what he gets on the open market. $5m or $6m is probably what he gets elsewhere, I would love to see him get $3M and give him six years and NMC is we have to.

As for MM, let's see what he does under thr pressure of a contract year, with an distraction of the contract, knowing that the regular season doesn't matter and he better show up for the playoffs. If he can't perform under these circumstances then I don't really want to be committing $12M+ for five years or more. I would sign him for $8 years at $10M a year right now, without a full NMC. He wouldn't sign that, so let's let him sing for his supper.

 

[conFABulator]

This is all true .. but fallacy here is NO NHL team can afford to have half of CAP tied up on 4 forwards .. it can't work no matter what else is done on roster construction in a CAPed league designed to build in mediocrity/evenness into teams thru a CBA .. hockey is a game of balance and reality is if it tips any way at all for Cups it tips in favor of D/G not Fs .. as many teams have won with very limited Fs and loaded up on G/Ds .. bottom line this season is a write off to us long term subscribers who can't wait for season to be done and next year to start .. at least there will be CAP money to roster da team effective for Cup runs in 2025/6 .. Mitch will leave team without compensation and JT will take on a much lower AAV as 3rd line LWer and/or retire .. then da roster can be retooled effectively .. to me i would rather have team forced Mitchs hand and told him we want to trade you or else we will sit you to start season .. then his value come next contract will drop significantly due to not playing (it happens to every player who doesn't play) .. sometimes as a leader you have to be a bit nasty in building a team .. we are too much of a nice guy run org .. teams like tampa cats and bruins don't .. bottom line is eventually Mitch would have caved in and accpeted a trade to help team get a top D and a pick for him .. he was very much overpaid in his contract (although not his fault) and he would get no support from da fan base .. Berube or any coach(s) only affects 20% of results .. 80% of results in hockey is recruiting and roster building .. we are doomed this upcoming season

I think we are agreeing on the big stuff here.

(a) not to be a Dubas defender, but if the Covid flat cap didn't hit we are not paying four forward 50% of the cap. It would be probably less than 40%. Is that still too much? Who knows, it depends one hat we did with the additional cap space. Keep Hyman? Sign a top four D? Both? Point being, it was not the plan to allocate that much of the cap to four forwards.

(b) I think sitting Marner unless he signs is a terrible idea and probably against the CBA, certainly frowned upon the league, PA and most importantly the players; he has a valid contract and has performed well. It also puts the leverage back in MM's favour. He is the victim now and if we start losing the cry will be "we need Marner", and if we start winning the cry will be "imagine how good we would be with Marner". We can't win this scenario, also I don't know that we want to sign him now without a discount on AAV and terms that he won't give us. Our window is now and we have to give ourselves the best chance to win every year. Sitting Marner is not that.

We are not doomed this upcoming season and I think there are many reasons to believe this could be our best season of the Matthews era.

Our goaltending should be improved over a horrific year last year. Our D should be much stronger with Tanev and OEL in and Brodie and Giordano out. Our offense was second in the league in goals last year and all we lost was a 21-goal scorer with lots of guys that can pick up that slack (Knies, McMann, Robertson, Cowan, Grebyonkin), and we have a new coach and staff, and captain.

...we also have MM playing for a contract.

 

[weems]

Great post.

Keefe should have never had the head coaching job. He was not equaling he didn’t have the balls nor the heft to treat all players equally and accountable, and he was complete ass when it came to developing our young guys.

Not only looking forward to seeing our new UFA additions. Also looking forward to seeing our returning players and guys like Minten and Cowan.

I think Liljegren and Robertson (if he’s still around) will benefit from a new coach. Keefe stifled their development and I’m sure neither of them were sad to see him leave.

As disappointed as I was to not see Marner traded and missing out on Lindholm and Roy, moving on from Keefe was a desperately long overdue move and the basis of any improvement we are going to see from this team.

All thing considered, I think we are finally going to see real leadership behind the bench that don’t give a damn about hurting anyone’s feelings.

Liljegren is an interesting case.
He's arguably the most polarizing player amongst the fanbase.
He's had some very good stretches but then also had long periods of poor play with major defensive lapses.
There's also been a few times where he was really starting to play well but then got injured, missed time and when returned looked out of sync.
I could see it going either way where he becomes a very reliable top 4 or also where he's just some random #5/#6 with some talent but also some real shortcomings.

A new coach right now, for a player in this position could be just what is needed.

 

[Evilhomer]

I think we are agreeing on the big stuff here.

(a) not to be a Dubas defender, but if the Covid flat cap didn't hit we are not paying four forward 50% of the cap. It would be probably less than 40%. Is that still too much? Who knows, it depends one hat we did with the additional cap space. Keep Hyman? Sign a top four D? Both? Point being, it was not the plan to allocate that much of the cap to four forwards.

(b) I think sitting Marner unless he signs is a terrible idea and probably against the CBA, certainly frowned upon the league, PA and most importantly the players; he has a valid contract and has performed well. It also puts the leverage back in MM's favour. He is the victim now and if we start losing the cry will be "we need Marner", and if we start winning the cry will be "imagine how good we would be with Marner". We can't win this scenario, also I don't know that we want to sign him now without a discount on AAV and terms that he won't give us. Our window is now and we have to give ourselves the best chance to win every year. Sitting Marner is not that.

We are not doomed this upcoming season and I think there are many reasons to believe this could be our best season of the Matthews era.

Our goaltending should be improved over a horrific year last year. Our D should be much stronger with Tanev and OEL in and Brodie and Giordano out. Our offense was second in the league in goals last year and all we lost was a 21-goal scorer with lots of guys that can pick up that slack (Knies, McMann, Robertson, Cowan, Grebyonkin), and we have a new coach and staff, and captain.

...we also have MM playing for a contract.

I think people are very much underestimating how good the Leafs will be this season, especially defensively. The idea that this season is a write-off is silly.

 

[nuck]

Changing out the entire coaching staff is potentially the single largest culture shift you can make in a team in one offseason but people don’t really want to talk about it for whatever reason.

The talking heads speak about wanting change, but they have such a rigid view of what counts as meaningful change. To a lot of folks around here/online in particular if it wasn’t Mitch or JT out it doesn’t count, which is frankly asinine.

I go back the Shanny/Pelley's presser which was days after Sheldon was canned. They put no blame on him.

Shanny absorbed it all and said "when you see patterns persist and the results don't change you have to adjust the way you think about things, we will look at everything this summer and we will consider everything this summer". Tre comes on and says how much he admires Sheldon and how he feels bringing him back last year was still the right idea today.

Then Shanny repeats that "everything is on the table" and here we are. Nobody can dispute that a coaching switch is a major event, even though it was apparently not required last summer. I like Tanev for Brodie and OEL for Edmundson but these are nip around the edges changes like any year, done for low cost and with short term potential for benefit. Whether some people want Marner or JT's scalp or some other big change isn't necessarily the thing.

Since they weren't blaming Keefe, then what are the persisting patterns they saw and were addressing?

"They (the players) know there will be changes and they will know that there will be sacrifices that need to be made"

"We've gotta to find a way systematically - personnel wise to score more in the playoffs"

"We've got really good players but... it hasn't worked"

"Those are really good players, we've gotta dig into why we're ending up with the same result year after year after year and adjust accordingly"

So if we take away the individual head hunting and just hold them accountable for what they said they needed to do after they had already dumped the coach - deep dives into why the failures, changes coming, sacrifices coming, it doesn't feel like they have done anything at all that moves the needle. Like the embarrassment and contrition at the press conference had just melted away into thin air and its business as usual again. I can't say what they could have or should have done to make good on the speeches but it really does feel like they are running it back and pinning their hopes on Berube. Except for Keefe being out (and remember he wasn't to blame) this looks like any random Dubas year.

 

[conFABulator]

I think people are very much underestimating how good the Leafs will be this season, especially defensively. The idea that this season is a write-off is silly.

Fully agree. The only discussion should be, are we better than last year? By how much? Can we challenge our record for points in a season? Can we win the division?

If any other team has. 69-goal Selke finalist, a number two coming off back to back 49-goal seasons and another career year, AND Marner people would be drooling over their potential.

Add in the rebuilt defense and a VERY VERY underrated goaltending tandem.

Didn't even mention Tavares, Knies, Domi or McMann.

 

[Sypher04]

I go back the Shanny/Pelley's presser which was days after Sheldon was canned. They put no blame on him.

Shanny absorbed it all and said "when you see patterns persist and the results don't change you have to adjust the way you think about things, we will look at everything this summer and we will consider everything this summer". Tre comes on and says how much he admires Sheldon and how he feels bringing him back last year was still the right idea today.

Then Shanny repeats that "everything is on the table" and here we are. Nobody can dispute that a coaching switch is a major event, even though it was apparently not required last summer. I like Tanev for Brodie and OEL for Edmundson but these are nip around the edges changes like any year, done for low cost and with short term potential for benefit. Whether some people want Marner or JT's scalp or some other big change isn't necessarily the thing.

Since they weren't blaming Keefe, then what are the persisting patterns they saw and were addressing?

"They (the players) know there will be changes and they will know that there will be sacrifices that need to be made"

"We've gotta to find a way systematically - personnel wise to score more in the playoffs"

"We've got really good players but... it hasn't worked"

"Those are really good players, we've gotta dig into why we're ending up with the same result year after year after year and adjust accordingly"

So if we take away the individual head hunting and just hold them accountable for what they said they needed to do after they had already dumped the coach - deep dives into why the failures, changes coming, sacrifices coming, it doesn't feel like they have done anything at all that moves the needle. Like the embarrassment and contrition at the press conference had just melted away into thin air and its business as usual again. I can't say what they could have or should have done to make good on the speeches but it really does feel like they are running it back and pinning their hopes on Berube. Except for Keefe being out (and remember he wasn't to blame) this looks like any random Dubas year.

I appreciate the level headed response and attempt to rationally support the opposing viewpoint even if there are a few points I fundamentally disagree with guiding the conclusion.

By all accounts Keefe is a good person and his record speak for itself in the regular season especially. He’s a good coach and the classy thing organizationally to do when speaking on him publicly is what transpired at the end of the season. I don’t think comments made at that presser in support of Sheldon nor his dismissal prior to it are indicators that they don’t put any of the blame for what’s transpired here on his coaching.

In my view that presser was talking holistically about change that needed to happen, not just after it, and Keefe being removed was the beginning of that change. I just don’t think they saw necessary to kick the guy on the way out.

Hell, “blame” so to speak doesn’t even have to come down to any kind of indictment of his coaching strategy (though it could as well). It could come as much down to perceived weakened in temperament, consistency, accountability, ability to motivate. There’s so many angles to coaching they could be looking to address. But external pressures or not, teams who are satisfied with their coaches don’t fire them, especially so after just extending

 

[LeafEgo]

Didn’t Matthews contract come out of nowhere too last August? Not talking about what they’re doing is not only fine but probably best. Most of this stuff is all fan and social media driven. We have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes because his contract isn’t imminent yet. If it reaches the end of the season then we’ll start hearing more. I’m just guessing they’ll wrap it up sooner rather than later.

Sure, but its not that they're staying mum, it's quite obvious that mgmt wanted to explore a trade - the chain of events this offseason would not have happened for Matty last year. Tre talked about it, among other posturing, and Ferris very publicly gave his answer.

For them to then go ahead and sign him long term, within the same offseason, collecting no new information the next season would bring, to a double-digit nmc-protected cap percentage, rumored at $100M, that would likely extend past their own careers in Toronto, would indicate they are not working against a coherent strategy and vision. It would be closer to shooting from the hip and you start to wonder if what's actually going on up there is a three stooges routine.

You assume they've simply kicked the can down the road and hope the decision becomes easier by the time they have to deal with it.

Optics is one thing, let's also assume they want to do what is right and not just what looks right.

How about this for change? Let one of the core four play for a contract and don't just hand them and extend and increase. I think JT and Marner are different.

JT can get an extension. It should be deeply discounted, not just when compared to his last deal but when compared to what he gets on the open market. $5m or $6m is probably what he gets elsewhere, I would love to see him get $3M and give him six years and NMC is we have to.

As for MM, let's see what he does under thr pressure of a contract year, with an distraction of the contract, knowing that the regular season doesn't matter and he better show up for the playoffs. If he can't perform under these circumstances then I don't really want to be committing $12M+ for five years or more. I would sign him for $8 years at $10M a year right now, without a full NMC. He wouldn't sign that, so let's let him sing for his supper.

Yep, that's the situation.

JT can be signed whenever as long as the price point fits the budget.

But it would be concerning to see them reverse decision on Marner without collecting new information. The bar might seem unrealistically high, but the test is mandatory. Who knows we have a new coach right.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think we are agreeing on the big stuff here.

(a) not to be a Dubas defender, but if the Covid flat cap didn't hit we are not paying four forward 50% of the cap. It would be probably less than 40%. Is that still too much? Who knows, it depends one hat we did with the additional cap space. Keep Hyman? Sign a top four D? Both? Point being, it was not the plan to allocate that much of the cap to four forwards.

(b) I think sitting Marner unless he signs is a terrible idea and probably against the CBA, certainly frowned upon the league, PA and most importantly the players; he has a valid contract and has performed well. It also puts the leverage back in MM's favour. He is the victim now and if we start losing the cry will be "we need Marner", and if we start winning the cry will be "imagine how good we would be with Marner". We can't win this scenario, also I don't know that we want to sign him now without a discount on AAV and terms that he won't give us. Our window is now and we have to give ourselves the best chance to win every year. Sitting Marner is not that.

We are not doomed this upcoming season and I think there are many reasons to believe this could be our best season of the Matthews era.

Our goaltending should be improved over a horrific year last year. Our D should be much stronger with Tanev and OEL in and Brodie and Giordano out. Our offense was second in the league in goals last year and all we lost was a 21-goal scorer with lots of guys that can pick up that slack (Knies, McMann, Robertson, Cowan, Grebyonkin), and we have a new coach and staff, and captain.

...we also have MM playing for a contract.

If Mitch sits da year then his contract value will drop hard and fast .. it is da only way to impact him to drop his no trade program .. Shanny/Dubie were massive idiots to give him that right .. no team can afford to lose a top 1st round pick for free .. we need to get back something team desperately need some CAP space, a top end 2way 2D and a pick .., and then some more CAP relief from JT so we can get a tender or pay for a 1G tender and also a 2C

 

[bax]

Sure, but its not that they're staying mum, it's quite obvious that mgmt wanted to explore a trade - the chain of events this offseason would not have happened for Matty last year. Tre talked about it, among other posturing, and Ferris very publicly gave his answer.

For them to then go ahead and sign him long term, within the same offseason, collecting no new information the next season would bring, to a double-digit nmc-protected cap percentage, rumored at $100M, that would likely extend past their own careers in Toronto, would indicate they are not working against a coherent strategy and vision. It would be closer to shooting from the hip and you start to wonder if what's actually going on up there is a three stooges routine.

You assume they've simply kicked the can down the road and hope the decision becomes easier by the time they have to deal with it.


Yep, that's the situation.

JT can be signed whenever as long as the price point fits the budget.

But it would be concerning to see them reverse decision on Marner without collecting new information. The bar might seem unrealistically high, but the test is mandatory. Who knows we have a new coach right.

When did Tre say he was trying to deal Marner? I would like to think every gm is always exploring every option always to improve but I never heard him or any of them say it?

I’m not trying to play dumb here. I tuned out a fair bit after July 1 for awhile but still considered myself paying attention enough that if Tre said something like that I’d hear it. That doesn’t mean I’m not wrong though lol that happens a lot.

I guess it feels to me like there will be a lot of pressure on the team this year. New coach, new captain, new goalie, revamped D. I would assume they would like to go into the season with no unnecessary talking points of that magnitude with the Marner contract.

To me all this the team is done with Marner talk is reading between the lines and just hoping something happens. I’ll obviously stand corrected if that’s the case.

 

[Evilhomer]

If Mitch sits da year then his contract value will drop hard and fast .. it is da only way to impact him to drop his no trade program .. Shanny/Dubie were massive idiots to give him that right .. no team can afford to lose a top 1st round pick for free .. we need to get back something team desperately need some CAP space, a top end 2way 2D and a pick .., and then some more CAP relief from JT so we can get a tender or pay for a 1G tender and also a 2C

Marner will likely still end up leading the forwards in ice time, unless they decide to give Matthews a lot more PK time. As for a number one goalie, I think by about 20 games into the season people will realize the team already has a number one goalie.

 

[LeafEgo]

When did Tre say he was trying to deal Marner? I would like to think every gm is always exploring every option always to improve but I never heard him or any of them say it?

I’m not trying to play dumb here. I tuned out a fair bit after July 1 for awhile but still considered myself paying attention enough that if Tre said something like that I’d hear it. That doesn’t mean I’m not wrong though lol that happens a lot.

I guess it feels to me like there will be a lot of pressure on the team this year. New coach, new captain, new goalie, revamped D. I would assume they would like to go into the season with no unnecessary talking points of that magnitude with the Marner contract.

To me all this the team is done with Marner talk is reading between the lines and just hoping something happens. I’ll obviously stand corrected if that’s the case.

After that presser, and the ensuing media blitz, Tre responded "Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing (with the no-trade). If there's a way to make our team better, we're going to do it". Then Marners camp made a public statement that he wasnt waiving and would play next year in Toronto.

It's been a shitshow, not typical GM'ing.

 

[colchar]

He's arguably the most polarizing player amongst the fanbase.

Um, you have heard of Marner right?

I go back the Shanny/Pelley's presser which was days after Sheldon was canned. They put no blame on him.

Of course not, that would be bad form. They aren't going to slag the guy in public. Firing him said all that needed to be said.

So if we take away the individual head hunting and just hold them accountable for what they said they needed to do after they had already dumped the coach - deep dives into why the failures, changes coming, sacrifices coming, it doesn't feel like they have done anything at all that moves the needle. Like the embarrassment and contrition at the press conference had just melted away into thin air and its business as usual again. I can't say what they could have or should have done to make good on the speeches but it really does feel like they are running it back and pinning their hopes on Berube. Except for Keefe being out (and remember he wasn't to blame) this looks like any random Dubas year.

You do realize that their hands are pretty much tied at the moment right? Dubas f***ed the franchise. Once the MM and JT contracts are off the books we will see what Tre does, and can judge then.

 

[Racer88]

I go back the Shanny/Pelley's presser which was days after Sheldon was canned. They put no blame on him.

Shanny absorbed it all and said "when you see patterns persist and the results don't change you have to adjust the way you think about things, we will look at everything this summer and we will consider everything this summer". Tre comes on and says how much he admires Sheldon and how he feels bringing him back last year was still the right idea today.

Then Shanny repeats that "everything is on the table" and here we are. Nobody can dispute that a coaching switch is a major event, even though it was apparently not required last summer. I like Tanev for Brodie and OEL for Edmundson but these are nip around the edges changes like any year, done for low cost and with short term potential for benefit. Whether some people want Marner or JT's scalp or some other big change isn't necessarily the thing.

Since they weren't blaming Keefe, then what are the persisting patterns they saw and were addressing?

"They (the players) know there will be changes and they will know that there will be sacrifices that need to be made"

"We've gotta to find a way systematically - personnel wise to score more in the playoffs"

"We've got really good players but... it hasn't worked"

"Those are really good players, we've gotta dig into why we're ending up with the same result year after year after year and adjust accordingly"

So if we take away the individual head hunting and just hold them accountable for what they said they needed to do after they had already dumped the coach - deep dives into why the failures, changes coming, sacrifices coming, it doesn't feel like they have done anything at all that moves the needle. Like the embarrassment and contrition at the press conference had just melted away into thin air and its business as usual again. I can't say what they could have or should have done to make good on the speeches but it really does feel like they are running it back and pinning their hopes on Berube. Except for Keefe being out (and remember he wasn't to blame) this looks like any random Dubas year.

You are absolutely right. That presser was a sham. Nothing was on the table except for the coach and yet another year of tinkering around the edges. The new big Boss is just another upper management clown

Um, you have heard of Marner right?





Of course not, that would be bad form. They aren't going to slag the guy in public. Firing him said all that needed to be said.





You do realize that their hands are pretty much tied at the moment right? Dubas f***ed the franchise. Once the MM and JT contracts are off the books we will see what Tre does, and can judge then.

I do agree about Dubas. He will go down as the guy that squandered what could have been a great rebuild with a nonsense build model. Do you think they are going to let Marner walk or Tavares walk?

 

[conFABulator]

If Mitch sits da year then his contract value will drop hard and fast .. it is da only way to impact him to drop his no trade program .. Shanny/Dubie were massive idiots to give him that right .. no team can afford to lose a top 1st round pick for free .. we need to get back something team desperately need some CAP space, a top end 2way 2D and a pick .., and then some more CAP relief from JT so we can get a tender or pay for a 1G tender and also a 2C

Sitting Marner drops (craters) his trade value also. I don't see an in season trade that makes us better this year. Draft picks and cap space plus a useful piece of two was the way to go in the off-season but that didn't happen..

I would rather have a motivated Marner in the lineup all year to help us now and see what he can do with a new coach, maybe no A on this jersey anymore and his next contract at stake.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You are absolutely right. That presser was a sham. Nothing was on the table except for the coach and yet another year of tinkering around the edges. The new big Boss is just another upper management clown


I do agree about Dubas. He will go down as the guy that squandered what could have been a great rebuild with a nonsense build model. Do you think they are going to let Marner walk or Tavares walk?

I think they've done more that just tinker around the the edges.

We'll have to wait to be sure, but I think they have improved the goaltending, defence, coaching, and leadership. They haven't done anything noteworthy with the forwards, but Tre says we finally have rookies who may be fighting for spots, and there's nothing he can do about the two biggest problems (beyond taking the C away from one) until next year.

I think there is a good chance that Marner walks, and that JT either walks or signs for a reasonable amount.

 

[Captain Crunch]

If Mitch sits da year then his contract value will drop hard and fast .. it is da only way to impact him to drop his no trade program .. Shanny/Dubie were massive idiots to give him that right .. no team can afford to lose a top 1st round pick for free .. we need to get back something team desperately need some CAP space, a top end 2way 2D and a pick .., and then some more CAP relief from JT so we can get a tender or pay for a 1G tender and also a 2C

I admit I don't know much about this, but I think it would have to be Mitch's decision to sit out, and not the Leafs. Also, it would have to be for some reason like he is demanding to be traded. However, as I said, I'm not sure if he could do that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I admit I don't know much about this, but I think it would have to be Mitch's decision to sit out, and not the Leafs. Also, it would have to be for some reason like he is demanding to be traded. However, as I said, I'm not sure if he could do that.

The topic was about the team not playing him, as a way to force him to waive his NTC.

Some posters have said that the NHLPA would not allow it. Not true, as it happens all the time - teams are allowed 24 or 25 (I'm not sure which) players on their NHL roster, but only 20 can be dressed for any game, so obviously sitting a player is legal. It rarely if even happens for a player of his calibre for more than a game or two, but it can.

More importantly the team is unlikely to do it, as that would reduce his potential trade value, and probably their chance of winning each game.

The usual reason for a player choosing to sit out is to try to force the team to trade him - the complete opposite of the situation here.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

They put lipstick on the pig.

Changed the dress and bonnet. Gave it a new nanny to push the carriage. Then headed on down to the county fair to sell kisses.



So pucker up buttercup. Be prepared to kiss all your hard earned money away. Cause fattening the pig doesn't come cheap.

The price of admission has increased once again as a result.

At the end of the day it may or may not look a little prettier. But it's still the same stinky old pig people are paying to see. A situation like this reminds me of what the manure salesman once said.

So long as people continue to pay for crap it'll always be profitable to sell it.

 

[Arzak]

We might as well be without GM. The last one trade away picks, players and gave MM 11M with NMC as RFA.

The post fake glass years are tough, but I love the hypocrisy of his fans. His signature move was to overpay RFAs and trade away firsts for Folignos, but 2 min into Tre's tenure we heard "Look at the state of this team now under Tre!!!" ROFL

 

[Arzak]

They put lipstick on the pig.

Changed the dress and bonnet. Gave it a new nanny to push the carriage. Then headed on down to the county fair to sell kisses.



So pucker up buttercup. Be prepared to kiss all your hard earned money away. Cause fattening the pig doesn't come cheap.

The price of admission has increased once again as a result.

At the end of the day it may or may not look a little prettier. But it's still the same stinky old pig people are paying to see. A situation like this reminds me of what the manure salesman once said.

So long as people continue to pay for crap it'll always be profitable to sell it.

If you are historically bad in playoffs, you can pretend 3rd in your division was elite regular season once again

I mean, we all agree this team is an elite one in the regular season right?

 

[Bust]

We might as well be without GM. The last one trade away picks, players and gave MM 11M with NMC as RFA.

The post fake glass years are tough, but I love the hypocrisy of his fans. His signature move was to overpay RFAs and trade away firsts for Folignos, but 2 min into Tre's tenure we heard "Look at the state of this team now under Tre!!!" ROFL

I agree.

Or the, “he was blocked from making meaningful change” as he was told he could not trade our remaining assets for a broke down Karlsson. He proceeds to try and get Shannys job, fails, gets canned/walks, joins PIT and immediately makes the exact trade he was shut down making here. Mediocre results follow.

We all saw what Tyson Barrie was to the leafs, Dubas wanted to see the same thing, again.

Tre was given nothing in terms of tradeable assets. He finally makes a deal and lots of crying over Tanev ensues, even though he’s the best value FA signing we’ve made in a very long time.

We signed Jeff f****** finger for 4m. Please. These guys wanted another forward I’m sure lmao.

 

[rumman]

I go back the Shanny/Pelley's presser which was days after Sheldon was canned. They put no blame on him.

Shanny absorbed it all and said "when you see patterns persist and the results don't change you have to adjust the way you think about things, we will look at everything this summer and we will consider everything this summer". Tre comes on and says how much he admires Sheldon and how he feels bringing him back last year was still the right idea today.

Then Shanny repeats that "everything is on the table" and here we are. Nobody can dispute that a coaching switch is a major event, even though it was apparently not required last summer. I like Tanev for Brodie and OEL for Edmundson but these are nip around the edges changes like any year, done for low cost and with short term potential for benefit. Whether some people want Marner or JT's scalp or some other big change isn't necessarily the thing.

Since they weren't blaming Keefe, then what are the persisting patterns they saw and were addressing?

"They (the players) know there will be changes and they will know that there will be sacrifices that need to be made"

"We've gotta to find a way systematically - personnel wise to score more in the playoffs"

"We've got really good players but... it hasn't worked"

"Those are really good players, we've gotta dig into why we're ending up with the same result year after year after year and adjust accordingly"

So if we take away the individual head hunting and just hold them accountable for what they said they needed to do after they had already dumped the coach - deep dives into why the failures, changes coming, sacrifices coming, it doesn't feel like they have done anything at all that moves the needle. Like the embarrassment and contrition at the press conference had just melted away into thin air and its business as usual again. I can't say what they could have or should have done to make good on the speeches but it really does feel like they are running it back and pinning their hopes on Berube. Except for Keefe being out (and remember he wasn't to blame) this looks like any random Dubas year.

Winner winner chicken dinner…..

 

[notbias]

I agree.

Or the, “he was blocked from making meaningful change” as he was told he could not trade our remaining assets for a broke down Karlsson. He proceeds to try and get Shannys job, fails, gets canned/walks, joins PIT and immediately makes the exact trade he was shut down making here. Mediocre results follow.

We all saw what Tyson Barrie was to the leafs, Dubas wanted to see the same thing, again.

Tre was given nothing in terms of tradeable assets. He finally makes a deal and lots of crying over Tanev ensues, even though he’s the best value FA signing we’ve made in a very long time.

We signed Jeff f****** finger for 4m. Please. These guys wanted another forward I’m sure lmao.

Wasn't Karlsson one of Pittsburgh's best players?

I don't understand the "broken down" comments or always saying Karlsson sucks.

He is not Norris level (despite winning it the year before he was traded), but he is still a good D.

Tanev is not the best FA signing, Tavares is and if we are considering contracts, even last year Domi is a better value.

Some of the tradeable assets Treliving was given: 2x 1sts, Cowan, Knies, Niemela, Minten, and Greb. Assets are not just 1st round picks.

There was a strategy amongst our former GM to trade picks and not players if they were progressing well, so if you want to move assets, move the players that were kept over the picks, it is very simple.