Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Arzak]

I agree.

Or the, “he was blocked from making meaningful change” as he was told he could not trade our remaining assets for a broke down Karlsson. He proceeds to try and get Shannys job, fails, gets canned/walks, joins PIT and immediately makes the exact trade he was shut down making here. Mediocre results follow.

We all saw what Tyson Barrie was to the leafs, Dubas wanted to see the same thing, again.

Tre was given nothing in terms of tradeable assets. He finally makes a deal and lots of crying over Tanev ensues, even though he’s the best value FA signing we’ve made in a very long time.

We signed Jeff f****** finger for 4m. Please. These guys wanted another forward I’m sure lmao.

True story.

They try to spin it about him trying to move Marner, but all I remember is Kyle talking about his family while trying to squeeze more $$$.

 

[Arzak]

Dubas must have had the best job interview ever in Pittsburg.


"I learned from my mistakes."



Technically he made all of them, plus he loved bringing players 35+ to Toronto, matching well with aging Pens.

NHL GM pool is shallow asf.

 

[Bust]

Wasn't Karlsson one of Pittsburgh's best players?

I don't understand the "broken down" comments or always saying Karlsson sucks.

He is not Norris level (despite winning it the year before he was traded), but he is still a good D.

Tanev is not the best FA signing, Tavares is and if we are considering contracts, even last year Domi is a better value.

Some of the tradeable assets Treliving was given: 2x 1sts, Cowan, Knies, Niemela, Minten, and Greb. Assets are not just 1st round picks.

There was a strategy amongst our former GM to trade picks and not players if they were progressing well, so if you want to move assets, move the players that were kept over the picks, it is very simple.

Karlsson at this point is a weaker defensive version of Rielly. We do not need that, especially at his cap hit. He is not what he once was. And quite frankly emptying the cupbords for him would have been stupid. Glad that was blocked.

Tanev is one of our top signings in a long time. Domi is up there, for sure. JT was a good warrior for us, but at 11m, his play doesn't justify the hit anymore and that weakens his case - but JT was a good signing. Tanev fills a positional need that Dubas failed to recapture after Muzzin went down. He should have targeted Ekholm but went after fwd's as usual. He never addressed our D, his comments about being "bullish" about our D was a crock and exposed his "strategy" of building an offensive heavy lineup. Outside of marquee players (Karlsson, Muzzin) the guy had/has no clue how to build from the net out.

Those aren't "tradeable assets" those are all the assets we have left... Our LW position is paper thin, Knies is not a "tradeable asset", hes the only quality LW we have. Niemela, Minten and Greb have minimal value in the grand scheme of things. And Tre drafted Cowan with one of those 2 1sts you listed. you listed the same "tradeable asset" twice.

Your last paragraph regarding Dubas' strategy of tading picks vs players is the whole damn reason we are in the position we are in. There was no team building, only a cumulation of assets. He was too sentimental to deal any player and it hurt us greatly as there was no substantial roster building being done. You cant go BPA all the time and not trade someone eventually. You cant be a winner without building - Dubas would be better as the tare down/draft table GM for a team in the basement, he's not the guy you look at for the finsihing touches.

 

[All Mod Cons]

He's doing really well under a lot of constraints. It's going to be a long, tough road ahead. We ain't going deep in the Matthews era unless we commit to only 2 of the 4 guys.

I get why he's not able to move on from the other two, so we'll just keep plodding along until they leave the game.

Any serious challenge will involve massive, massive changes which his bosses look to be against, so it's a case of not messing up the future and just biding time.

 

[notbias]

Karlsson at this point is a weaker defensive version of Rielly. We do not need that, especially at his cap hit. He is not what he once was. And quite frankly emptying the cupbords for him would have been stupid. Glad that was blocked.

Source that it was blocked? I didn't know it was confirmed.

His price wasn't high.

He's still a good D. I wouldn't want him at 10 million, but he makes sense for the Penguins.

Tanev is one of our top signings in a long time. Domi is up there, for sure. JT was a good warrior for us, but at 11m, his play doesn't justify the hit anymore and that weakens his case - but JT was a good signing. Tanev fills a positional need that Dubas failed to recapture after Muzzin went down. He should have targeted Ekholm but went after fwd's as usual. He never addressed our D, his comments about being "bullish" about our D was a crock and exposed his "strategy" of building an offensive heavy lineup. Outside of marquee players (Karlsson, Muzzin) the guy had/has no clue how to build from the net out.

If we included contracts like you are, then Tanev would be a bad signing.

Muzzin was by far the best D we brought on.

McCabe will likely end up being #2 for that unless Tanev has multiple good seasons and doesn't start to fall off.

OEL is a darkhorse here, but not sure anyone will be better than Muzzin.

Treliving is building the same team that we had for the last 8 years, just different names.

Those aren't "tradeable assets" those are all the assets we have left... Our LW position is paper thin, Knies is not a "tradeable asset", hes the only quality LW we have. Niemela, Minten and Greb have minimal value in the grand scheme of things. And Tre drafted Cowan with one of those 2 1sts you listed. you listed the same "tradeable asset" twice.

Your definition of tradeable asset is a 1st?

I think the 3 players you listed that have minimal value are a 2nd+ easily.

So then he left 2/3 tradeable assets... not bad.

And Knies is a tradeable asset, anyone should be if it makes your team better.

Your last paragraph regarding Dubas' strategy of tading picks vs players is the whole damn reason we are in the position we are in. There was no team building, only a cumulation of assets. He was too sentimental to deal any player and it hurt us greatly as there was no substantial roster building being done. You cant go BPA all the time and not trade someone eventually. You cant be a winner without building - Dubas would be better as the tare down/draft table GM for a team in the basement, he's not the guy you look at for the finsihing touches.

He dealt lots of players, you just don't like who he kept.

Many trades were made, you just complained that he made too many trades, he cut ties quickly on guys he didn't think were working.

Treliving is a better tear down guy, look at where Calgary is, they have to tear it all down because of Treliving.

He's doing really well under a lot of constraints. It's going to be a long, tough road ahead. We ain't going deep in the Matthews era unless we commit to only 2 of the 4 guys.

I get why he's not able to move on from the other two, so we'll just keep plodding along until they leave the game.

Any serious challenge will involve massive, massive changes which his bosses look to be against, so it's a case of not messing up the future and just biding time.

What constraints?

He's spent over 50 million which is well over half the cap.

Now people think Shanny is doing everything? Drop the GM now.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I am perplexed by all this Tanev praise. The guy is 35 years old and broken down. He also hasn't played a minute for us. So how is he a significant signing? It reeks of desperation to me.

 

[Bust]

Source that it was blocked? I didn't know it was confirmed.

His price wasn't high.

He's still a good D. I wouldn't want him at 10 million, but he makes sense for the Penguins.



If we included contracts like you are, then Tanev would be a bad signing.

Muzzin was by far the best D we brought on.

McCabe will likely end up being #2 for that unless Tanev has multiple good seasons and doesn't start to fall off.

OEL is a darkhorse here, but not sure anyone will be better than Muzzin.

Treliving is building the same team that we had for the last 8 years, just different names.



Your definition of tradeable asset is a 1st?

I think the 3 players you listed that have minimal value are a 2nd+ easily.

So then he left 2/3 tradeable assets... not bad.

And Knies is a tradeable asset, anyone should be if it makes your team better.



He dealt lots of players, you just don't like who he kept.

Many trades were made, you just complained that he made too many trades, he cut ties quickly on guys he didn't think were working.

Treliving is a better tear down guy, look at where Calgary is, they have to tear it all down because of Treliving.



What constraints?

He's spent over 50 million which is well over half the cap.

Now people think Shanny is doing everything? Drop the GM now.

Pretty known it hockey circles that it was blocked. He clearly coveted Karlsson and tried to make a deal for him. He makes 0 sense in Toronto.

Tanev is great at 4.5. Awesome AAV for one of the top shutdown d men out there. Not debatable. He will be LTIR by yr 4-5, which coincides with the Matthews deal. Easy to read between the lines here. Great deal by Tre for Tanev. How do you not understand this?

Muzzin was awesome. Best D man we have had in a very long time. Dubas failed by not understanding his on-ice value and filling that hole. He brought in Muzz, stupid to not replace him when he went down.

2nd+ don’t help our lineup. We need NHL players. Getting a few 2nds would be very stupid considering how bare our prospect pool is. You’re not getting a very good NHL player for any of those guys. Sorry.

Regarding Knies, again - team building. You don’t trade a player in a positional weakness. We have no LW’s outside of Knies. Never mind his skill set is nothing like we have in our system.

I never said a thing about too many trades. Not sure where you’re getting that from.

Dubas couldn't identify he had a coaching issue. Built a team with fundamental weakness and rode the coattails of his starts to a couple high regular season finishes. Without Matthews we wouldn’t even be a playoff team. Dubas left Toronto with no minimal prospects, minimal draft picks, no goalies, poorly constructed D core, bloated contracts with trade protection, the list goes on.

Tre gets set up for failure as he’s handcuffed outside of making some FA signings, and you’re positing like he’s the ultimate architect of this team. I’m not saying Tre is gods gift to GMing, he hasn’t even been given a fair shake. Pretty dishonest to say otherwise. “Spent 50 mil!!1!1”… he’s brought in 5 new players man. Tanev, OEL, Reavo, Domi and Stolarz.

Dubas was the worst GM, timing wise, for the job he was given. Wish we would of kept Lou or even Hunter over Dubas.

 

[ToneDog]

I am perplexed by all this Tanev praise. The guy is 35 years old and broken down. He also hasn't played a minute for us. So how is he a significant signing? It reeks of desperation to me.

He has been solid the past couple of seasons and was great for Dallas. Just hope he does not fall off a cliff like Brodie and gives us 3 years for $27m. LOL.

 

[Bust]

I am perplexed by all this Tanev praise. The guy is 35 years old and broken down. He also hasn't played a minute for us. So how is he a significant signing? It reeks of desperation to me.

He was absolutely not broken down for Dallas. He’s solid and will stabilize our top pair, something we have not had in a very long time, since Kaberle and McCabe. Tanev will do the little things here and will be huge for Benny and McCabe.

We are thin on D. Tanev will be solid for our roster.

 

[notbias]

He has been solid the past couple of seasons and was great for Dallas. Just hope he does not fall off a cliff like Brodie and gives us 3 years for $27m. LOL.

He's signed until he is 40.

They might use LTIR at some point, but there is likely a time that his play is well under 4.5 AAV and he is still playing.

His contract should be judged by how long he is playing solid hockey, it might be a month, it might be 4 years, it might be all 6, who knows, but he is risky.

 

[notbias]

Pretty known it hockey circles that it was blocked. He clearly coveted Karlsson and tried to make a deal for him. He makes 0 sense in Toronto.

Source?

Tanev is great at 4.5. Awesome AAV for one of the top shutdown d men out there. Not debatable. He will be LTIR by yr 4-5, which coincides with the Matthews deal. Easy to read between the lines here. Great deal by Tre for Tanev. How do you not understand this?

And if he starts playing poorly before year 4 or 5?

It's a risky signing for anyone who can use critical thinking.

Muzzin was awesome. Best D man we have had in a very long time. Dubas failed by not understanding his on-ice value and filling that hole. He brought in Muzz, stupid to not replace him when he went down.

Players like Muzzin are always available.............

2nd+ don’t help our lineup. We need NHL players. Getting a few 2nds would be very stupid considering how bare our prospect pool is. You’re not getting a very good NHL player for any of those guys. Sorry.

From no assets to should have traded the assets for NHL players...

Regarding Knies, again - team building. You don’t trade a player in a positional weakness. We have no LW’s outside of Knies. Never mind his skill set is nothing like we have in our system.

It's such a boring argument.

Nylander has played LW and Domi has played LW, wow now you have a 1st line and 2nd line LW.

We have players who can play multiple positions... Knies would be much lower on the depth chart and not a positional need if we just switched people around to a position they can also play well.

I never said a thing about too many trades. Not sure where you’re getting that from.

Dubas couldn't identify he had a coaching issue. Built a team with fundamental weakness and rode the coattails of his starts to a couple high regular season finishes. Without Matthews we wouldn’t even be a playoff team. Dubas left Toronto with no minimal prospects, minimal draft picks, no goalies, poorly constructed D core, bloated contracts with trade protection, the list goes on.

We have a winning record without Matthews, seems like a dumb take based on feelings and not logic.

A lot of opinions and the only fact you got wrong.

Tre gets set up for failure as he’s handcuffed outside of making some FA signings, and you’re positing like he’s the ultimate architect of this team. I’m not saying Tre is gods gift to GMing, he hasn’t even been given a fair shake. Pretty dishonest to say otherwise. “Spent 50 mil!!1!1”… he’s brought in 5 new players man. Tanev, OEL, Reavo, Domi and Stolarz.

Dubas was the worst GM, timing wise, for the job he was given. Wish we would of kept Lou or even Hunter over Dubas.

Treliving spent $50 million on players since he's been GM, you may not like it, but it is looking like a lot of his vision is the same as Dubas'.

I think you are likely one of the most clueless posters for wanting Hunter.

The longer Lou has been with the Islanders the worse they got, you'll probably reference something he did in the early 2000's as why he is so good.

Keep in mind, all these overpaid losers who only care about money were vetted by Lou pre-draft and brought onto the team by him. Treliving and Dubas are just re-signing them, but Lou gave this his stamp of approval (Tavares too, he tried to re-sign him in the New York).

 

[ToneDog]

We might as well be without GM. The last one trade away picks, players and gave MM 11M with NMC as RFA.

The post fake glass years are tough, but I love the hypocrisy of his fans. His signature move was to overpay RFAs and trade away firsts for Folignos, but 2 min into Tre's tenure we heard "Look at the state of this team now under Tre!!!" ROFL

Tre is doing his best to f*** us contract wise as his predecessor.

Matty - not enough term
Willie - $11.5mx8. Yikes.
Tanev -$27m for hopefully 3 years. Yeah it is only money and not mine or yours.
OEL -$3.5mx4 -another overpay
Woll -$3m raise. Better hope he stays healthy Tre.
Kampf - SMH

Benoit, McMann, Domi and Stolarz deals are OK.

Now we wait to see how bad he f***s up the JT and MM deals.

 

[Sypher04]

He has been solid the past couple of seasons and was great for Dallas. Just hope he does not fall off a cliff like Brodie and gives us 3 years for $27m. LOL.

Well on the upside he hasn’t shown any signs of decline. So until he does it’s really not something we need to worry about. I think people have this weird idea that people are destined to implode as soon as they reach their mid 30s

There is risk, but every long term contract comes with risk.

 

[Arzak]

Tre is doing his best to f*** us contract wise as his predecessor.

Matty - not enough term
Willie - $11.5mx8. Yikes.
Tanev -$27m for hopefully 3 years. Yeah it is only money and not mine or yours.
OEL -$3.5mx4 -another overpay
Woll -$3m raise. Better hope he stays healthy Tre.
Kampf - SMH

Benoit, McMann, Domi and Stolarz deals are OK.

Now we wait to see how bad he f***s up the JT and MM deals.

It's hard to evaluate in a vacuum. Their previous contracts with NMC while trading away assets and picks = read betting all in on CORE 4, left us with a no choice but to overpay (or walk to UFA) .

you can't give Mitch raise from 7 to 9M when he is 11M RFA.


Willie watched RFA Marner being half the player he is each playoffs, it's a shocker he joined Leafs 11M $ club.

 

[ToneDog]

Well on the upside he hasn’t shown any signs of decline. So until he does not something we need to worry about. I think people have this weird idea that people are destined to impose as soon as they reach their mid 30s

I recall a few not wanting him when he was a pending UFA and many calling him glass because he was easily breakable 4? years ago. Hopefully the hard miles he's put on do not catch up to him for a few more years.

 

[ToneDog]

It's hard to evaluate in a vacuum. Their previous contracts with NMC while trading away assets and picks = read betting all in on CORE 4, left us with a no choice but to overpay (or walk to UFA) .

you can't give Mitch raise from 7 to 9M when he is 11M RFA.


Willie watched RFA Marner being half the player he is each playoffs, it's a shocker he joined Leafs 11M $ club.

Willie went from 7 to 11.5. Makes me want to puke as much as Mitch at 11 and Mitch at more than 11. This organization has learned as much about contract negotiations as their core has about winning in the playoffs. Very little.

 

[Bust]

Source?



And if he starts playing poorly before year 4 or 5?

It's a risky signing for anyone who can use critical thinking.



Players like Muzzin are always available.............



From no assets to should have traded the assets for NHL players...



It's such a boring argument.

Nylander has played LW and Domi has played LW, wow now you have a 1st line and 2nd line LW.

We have players who can play multiple positions... Knies would be much lower on the depth chart and not a positional need if we just switched people around to a position they can also play well.



We have a winning record without Matthews, seems like a dumb take based on feelings and not logic.

A lot of opinions and the only fact you got wrong.



Treliving spent $50 million on players since he's been GM, you may not like it, but it is looking like a lot of his vision is the same as Dubas'.

I think you are likely one of the most clueless posters for wanting Hunter.

The longer Lou has been with the Islanders the worse they got, you'll probably reference something he did in the early 2000's as why he is so good.

Keep in mind, all these overpaid losers who only care about money were vetted by Lou pre-draft and brought onto the team by him. Treliving and Dubas are just re-signing them, but Lou gave this his stamp of approval (Tavares too, he tried to re-sign him in the New York).

You’re talking in circles.

You state JT at 11m was a good signing, even though he’s fallen off a cliff. But Tanev at 4.5m is risky. Lol ok. Again, guy will be LTIR’d before it’s an issue and even still, 4.5 is easy to move. Non issue.

You clearly learned nothing over the past handful of seasons. You can’t have a revolving door of wingers/D-pairs. Guys can’t just magically plug into their off-side and not miss a beat. LW needs to be a priority. Sorry you are just realizing this.

Without Matthews we are lucky to hit 8th in the div. You are crazy if you think removing our best player and a top 3 player in the game, that we would have a “winning record”. BS.

Lou is a proven winner. Dubas is a pretender. Sorry this hurts your feelings. Lou drafted the core, Dubas tried to be buddy-buddy with them all and hurt us long term. Lou wouldn’t have signed them to those deals and we would be in a much better position contract wise (and would have probably won a few rounds!) if he would have stayed.

Just because you don’t understand roster construction and building a team dynamic doesn’t make it wrong.

I also don’t really care what you think of me - but if we’re sharing, I think you need to understand that just because you’re confident in your own opinion, doesn’t make it correct. It would do you a lot of good to actually read the posts you’re responding to vs seeing red when someone disagrees with your opinion/Dubas time in Toronto.

 

[notbias]

You’re talking in circles.

You state JT at 11m was a good signing, even though he’s fallen off a cliff. But Tanev at 4.5m is risky. Lol ok. Again, guy will be LTIR’d before it’s an issue and even still, 4.5 is easy to move. Non issue.

Reading comprehension is not your best skill I see.

Tavares was the best player we signed recently.

If we take contracts into consideration, he wasn't, much like Tanev isn't.

What date is he being LTIR'd? You have no clue.

You clearly learned nothing over the past handful of seasons. You can’t have a revolving door of wingers/D-pairs. Guys can’t just magically plug into their off-side and not miss a beat. LW needs to be a priority. Sorry you are just realizing this.

Works for other teams.

Doesn't Domi normally play C but moved to RW with Matthews? Seems like you can.

Without Matthews we are lucky to hit 8th in the div. You are crazy if you think removing our best player and a top 3 player in the game, that we would have a “winning record”. BS.

Facts don't support your idiotic take.

Lou is a proven winner. Dubas is a pretender. Sorry this hurts your feelings. Lou drafted the core, Dubas tried to be buddy-buddy with them all and hurt us long term. Lou wouldn’t have signed them to those deals and we would be in a much better position contract wise (and would have probably won a few rounds!) if he would have stayed.

I'm not talking about 20 years ago when Lou was at the ripe young age of 80.

Just because you don’t understand roster construction and building a team dynamic doesn’t make it wrong.

I take this as a compliment.

I also don’t really care what you think of me - but if we’re sharing, I think you need to understand that just because you’re confident in your own opinion, doesn’t make it correct. It would do you a lot of good to actually read the posts you’re responding to vs seeing red when someone disagrees with your opinion/Dubas time in Toronto.

I am glad you don't care what I think of you because it is nothing positive related to hockey.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We all saw what Tyson Barrie was to the leafs, Dubas wanted to see the same thing, again.

Actually, Treliving was the one who did the same thing - only much worse - with Klingberg.

Tre was given nothing in terms of tradeable assets.

He had a ton of assets and cap space.

He finally makes a deal and lots of crying over Tanev ensues, even though he’s the best value FA signing we’ve made in a very long time.

That's not even close to true. We hope that he's a good fit stylistically at least, but we can't even be sure that he's going to provide surplus value in any year at that age.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I am perplexed by all this Tanev praise. The guy is 35 years old and broken down. He also hasn't played a minute for us. So how is he a significant signing? It reeks of desperation to me.

Have you seen him play? at all?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Actually, Treliving was the one who did the same thing - only much worse - with Klingberg.

He had a ton of assets and cap space.

That's not even close to true. We hope that he's a good fit stylistically at least, but we can't even be sure that he's going to provide surplus value in any year at that age.

Klingberg was not a worse move.

It didn't work out but it didn't cost them a player capable of being a #2 center, the only reason he wasn't was because he was on Toronto

 

[Dekes For Days]

Klingberg was not a worse move.

Klingberg was undeniably worse than Barrie, in every possible way. Klingberg was complete garbage, as predicted. The best thing he did was get injured.

 

[Nineteen67]

Klingberg was not a worse move.

It didn't work out but it didn't cost them a player capable of being a #2 center, the only reason he wasn't was because he was on Toronto

They took a swing at Klingberg with very little downside.It didn’t work and it didn’t matter.
Barrie was plain idiotic and another massive error by an apprentice GM.

 

[IPS]

Remind me which was the move which costed the Leafs a #2C who eventually won the cup with their new team?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Klingberg was undeniably worse than Barrie, in every possible way. Klingberg was complete garbage, as predicted. The best thing he did was get injured.

Barrie cost them a player that on the vast majority of teams would have been a top 6 center.

Klingberg cost them money.

Remind me which was the move which costed the Leafs a #2C who eventually won the cup with their new team?

That would be Barrie