Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[egd27]

There was some math that preceded this comment on an earlier post.

We take the Tavares money, pay the Woll, Knies, and McCabe raises and then remove Kampf and Jarnkrok. This is what leaves around $9M.

You have to fill those two bottom six roles from within on low dollars...Dewar, Hirvonen, Minten, Tverberg, Steeves, etc

Which assumes that 2 of those guys are better than Kampf and Jarnkrok and you are able to get a quality #2C for around $6.5.

I suppose it possible, but it's not a slam dunk IMO

 

[ULF_55]

McCabe is actually $4m now with half retained by CHI, bringing the hit down to $2m for us. He isn’t getting resigned for under $5m, in my opinion, and it could be closer to $6m.

Knies is the wild card. If he takes a big step forward this year, the team could easily opt to extend him long term at a higher aav.

Tavares $$ is spoken for. New spend will come from a cap increase and moving out other players for guys on elc like Cowan.

Yes, it is easy to look at Capwages.com and think McCabe is a $2mm a year player.

He isn't taking a reduction for his last big deal at age 31 (playing age will be 32) from $4mm.

He'll get a raise, who knows maybe he'll want to play in his home country his last big deal?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don’t get how the flip flopping isn’t a bigger talking point.

Kyle Dubas on the Toronto Maple Leafs’ team identity: “I would say it is still in formation… We are aiming towards is a team built on speed, talent, and creativity but also tenaciousness when we don’t have the puck”

Biggest acquisitions are: Tavares, Muzzin, Foligno, O’Rielly, McCabe, Brodie. Where is the speed talent and creativity in that list? We got slower every single year trying to bring in defensively minded veteran gritgrinders. Barrie was the closest thing to speed and skill he got and the coach didn’t let him do the only thing he’s elite at in skating with the puck.

We were advertised a high intensity speed game and ended up with a team built to appease talking heads on Sportsnet saying they needed veteran grinders that know how to win. I don’t mind the physical grinding game but if you’re going to do it you need to commit to it instead of having a foot on two trains moving in opposite directions and half assing both approaches. We ended up playing a slow east west possession game that didn’t leverage our speed when we had it and neutered the gritty players we got when we lost the speed.

I can see why it's not much of a talking point now, as the disasterous Dubas has departed.

Some posters can't or won't admit that it was that bad, and the rest of us would probably prefer to forget it.

 

[conFABulator]

So you are assuming that whoever takes them will not want to send players or a bad contract (I'm thinking Kampf specifically) back?

Yeah, Kampf is a good player, just slightly overpaid. As the cap goes up the latter becomes less true.

I think we could move them both right now without retention. The return would not be overwhelming and I think the organization believes we need both guys. We probably do.

It would be great to see him sign for that, but I think he'll be looking at $4 million as a bare minimum, especially with how much they just gave Liljegren.

These are the incremental numbers on top of what we are currently paying them as that is how this math works. If we get $11M new dollars to spend that amount will cover the increase. So, yes I also have McCabe at $4M (which is $2M more than we are currently paying him).

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes, it is easy to look at Capwages.com and think McCabe is a $2mm a year player.

He isn't taking a reduction for his last big deal at age 31 (playing age will be 32) from $4mm.

He'll get a raise, who knows maybe he'll want to play in his home country his last big deal?

Thanks for the capwages heads up. I hadn’t heard of it.

 

[conFABulator]

Which assumes that 2 of those guys are better than Kampf and Jarnkrok and you are able to get a quality #2C for around $6.5.

I suppose it possible, but it's not a slam dunk IMO

I would absolutely hope that Minten and Holmberg could replace Kampf and Jarnkrok in a year or so.

I also really hope that we already have our 2C and that it is Nylander. It would be easier to spend that $6.5M on wingers or 3C.

 

[notDatsyuk]

At least he admits his biggest mistake in his book on winning!!!!!

I agree that his bad negotiations with Willy, Mitch, and Matty were a big problem, but I'm a little surprised that he still thinks signing a slow 2C that we didn't need to an $11x7 contract was a good idea.

 

[ULF_55]

I would absolutely hope that Minten and Holmberg could replace Kampf and Jarnkrok in a year or so.

I also really hope that we already have our 2C and that it is Nylander. It would be easier to spend that $6.5M on wingers or 3C.

New coach.

I expect changes.

Just blue-skying ... Nylander has a Yzerman transition ... with better supporting wingers maybe they make a go of it.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don’t get how the flip flopping isn’t a bigger talking point.

Kyle Dubas on the Toronto Maple Leafs’ team identity: “I would say it is still in formation… We are aiming towards is a team built on speed, talent, and creativity but also tenaciousness when we don’t have the puck”

Biggest acquisitions are: Tavares, Muzzin, Foligno, O’Rielly, McCabe, Brodie. Where is the speed talent and creativity in that list? We got slower every single year trying to bring in defensively minded veteran gritgrinders. Barrie was the closest thing to speed and skill he got and the coach didn’t let him do the only thing he’s elite at in skating with the puck.

We were advertised a high intensity speed game and ended up with a team built to appease talking heads on Sportsnet saying they needed veteran grinders that know how to win. I don’t mind the physical grinding game but if you’re going to do it you need to commit to it instead of having a foot on two trains moving in opposite directions and half assing both approaches. We ended up playing a slow east west possession game that didn’t leverage our speed when we had it and neutered the gritty players we got when we lost the speed.

They marketed speed when they had Hyman, Johnsson, Mikehev, etc., but when that went away they couldn’t replace it due to poor cap management and the realization that it doesn’t work in the playoffs.

No one would have guessed that core wouldn’t be willing to play playoff style hockey. I suspect they were told by Dubas and Shanny that they were going to change the NHL and they bought it.

 

[conFABulator]

New coach.

I expect changes.

Just blue-skying ... Nylander has a Yzerman transition ... with better supporting wingers maybe they make a go of it.

Yeah, it a possible abe something Tre wanted last year. Keefe only gave it two weeks at training camp. It really solves a lot of problems for us if he can 2C.

Knies Matthews Domi
Holmberg Nylander Jarnkrok
Robertson Tavares McMann

This doesn't even account for Cowan or Grebenkin cracking the top 9

 

[ACC1224]

New coach.

I expect changes.

Just blue-skying ... Nylander has a Yzerman transition ... with better supporting wingers maybe they make a go of it.

I guess stranger things have happened

 

[4thline]

I guess stranger things have happened

I'm moreso hoping for a Hossa Evolution rather than an Yzerman transition. There are a lot more similarities there- and optimistically we've seen about half of it so far. Willy has come a long way

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm moreso hoping for a Hossa Evolution rather than an Yzerman transition. There are a lot more similarities there- and optimistically we've seen about half of it so far. Willy has come a long way

Don't sell Hossa short. In order for Nylander to become a "Hossa", he is going to have to get significantly better offensively, and then also become one of the elite defensive wingers.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I certainly watched the game, but I don't recall Nylander being the only reason we lost.

Those other guys played 3C. If you're overpaying JT that much, he's going to be the 2C. Would you play your second best scorer and second or third best overall on the third line, when you could have him on the second line supporting JT?

But as you say, "Who the f*** knows about Keefe".

I will admit I was wrong about Nylander if he plays C full time under Berube.

If this doesn't happen we can finally put this to rest.

 

[Mess]

Odds makers have the Leafs 8th in Stanley Cup odds.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Odds makers have the Leafs 8th in Stanley Cup odds.

View attachment 894501

Those aren't the odds of winning the Cup. Those are the odds required to guarantee that the bookies make a profit regardless of who wins, so they're based on expected wagering.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's looking like they're gonna run it all back again.

Only with worse duds. And since history has a tendency to repeat itself I fully expect to see more of the same failure this year as the last eight years. Worse if the new support players do as badly as I think they will.

Everything Treliving does is expensive and stupid.

His approach to free agency reminds me of Homer buying an RV. Like walking onto a used car lot and telling the guy dressed like Herb Tarlek you have all kinds of money burning a hole in your pocket. In the end you get stuck with a broken down wreck that costs too much.

Everyone Treliving signed is injury prone and overpaid.

Which is why it boggles my mind people think I'm too negative. I'll be positive when there's something to be positive about. Until then expect to see more bad moves from a GM who doesn't have a clue.

It's not being negative when there's a good chance everything I say will come true.

 

[nuck]

I agree that his bad negotiations with Willy, Mitch, and Matty were a big problem, but I'm a little surprised that he still thinks signing a slow 2C that we didn't need to an $11x7 contract was a good idea.

The one is an admission of lacking strong negotiation skills in year one, plus also implicit some of it could be on the players/agents. The other would be saying he didn't actually know how to construct a team. His stubborn adherence to his core players as "the way" shows he wasn't ever admitting the roster balance was the issue, just lesser details along the way. Either he doesn't think he failed or he just can't admit how it happened.

Its in his rear view mirror now so I am actually surprised he owned any of it. And based on the "sweeping changes" this summer I guess the roster balance still isn't the issue

 

[Racer88]

The one is an admission of lacking strong negotiation skills in year one, plus also implicit some of it could be on the players/agents. The other would be saying he didn't actually know how to construct a team. His stubborn adherence to his core players as "the way" shows he wasn't ever admitting the roster balance was the issue, just lesser details along the way. Either he doesn't think he failed or he just can't admit how it happened.

Its in his rear view mirror now so I am actually surprised he owned any of it. And based on the "sweeping changes" this summer I guess the roster balance still isn't the issue

Ya, sadly it’s starting to look like the press conference with Pelley and Shanny was just a bunch of PR nonsense and contained no real substance

 

[Sypher04]

Ya, sadly it’s starting to look like the press conference with Pelley and Shanny was just a bunch of PR nonsense and contained no real substance

There are a lot of ways to enact meaningful change that don’t involve trading away one of your best players (which you likely can’t do even if you want to). Especially when those most likely are at their lowest value currently.

Upgrading a major area of weakness on the ice, like defense, is one.

Changing nearly the entire coaching staff is another.

There are a plethora of office ice things they could be changing as well

I’m sure if you asked them, this isn’t a finished product roster, but it was probably never going to be on game 1 of the regular season.

 

[Maple Leaf]

It's looking like they're gonna run it all back again.

Only with worse duds. And since history has a tendency to repeat itself I fully expect to see more of the same failure this year as the last eight years. Worse if the new support players do as badly as I think they will.

Everything Treliving does is expensive and stupid.

His approach to free agency reminds me of Homer buying an RV. Like walking onto a used car lot and telling the guy dressed like Herb Tarlek you have all kinds of money burning a hole in your pocket. In the end you get stuck with a broken down wreck that costs too much.

Everyone Treliving signed is injury prone and overpaid.

Which is why it boggles my mind people think I'm too negative. I'll be positive when there's something to be positive about. Until then expect to see more bad moves from a GM who doesn't have a clue.

It's not being negative when there's a good chance everything I say will come true.

They will run it back forever and get no wheere best find a new hobby

 

[Racer88]

There are a lot of ways to enact meaningful change that don’t involve trading away one of your best players (which you likely can’t do even if you want to). Especially when those most likely are at their lowest value currently.

Upgrading a major area of weakness on the ice, like defense, is one.

Changing nearly the entire coaching staff is another.

There are a plethora of office ice things they could be changing as well

I’m sure if you asked them, this isn’t a finished product roster, but it was probably never going to be on game 1 of the regular season.

We have seen those types of meaningful changes the last 8 years and the results don’t change. With this core and this cap allocation nothing will change until that does. But hey let’s just run it back for the 8th or 9th year.
Great plan Pelley and Shanny

 

[Bomber0104]

We have seen those types of meaningful changes the last 8 years and the results don’t change. With this core and this cap allocation nothing will change until that does. But hey let’s just run it back for the 8th or 9th year.
Great plan Pelley and Shanny

The Leafs really meaningfully changed the deck chairs this off-season after spending roughly 50% of their cap-space on four players once again.

Trust them on this one, they mean it this time.

That poster's so far beyond out to lunch it's not even funny at this point.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Ya, sadly it’s starting to look like the press conference with Pelley and Shanny was just a bunch of PR nonsense and contained no real substance

Oops - you seem to have diverted the thread. nuck was agreeing with me that Dubas blew the Tavares deal, and you're talking about Pelly. Different time and GM.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm here to praise him.

I like his free agent signings. His mission was to improve the defense and he's done it.

I know you're frothing at the mouth to come in here and talk about term, but I just see this as a necessary way to compete with the other GMs.

Good: Domi, Tanev, OEL
OK: Woll and Stolarz
We'll see: Liljegren and Hakanpaa.

When you see the money and term players like Roy or Zadorov got, you can see why he went with CT, JK, and OEL.

I know Tre has a tendency to get most of his work done in the offseason. He's not done IMHO.

My grade: A-

He's improved the PK, and the PP. These were things that TOR desperately needed.

I'd like to see your grading as well.

Go Leafs Go

I agree with most of what you wrote, although I'd give him a B+ for now,If has his shit together and stays healthy then it goes to an A.

I think an important aspect that you missed is the coaching staff.

I think this is the strongest coaching Staff in 25 years, and I know that because I've watched this team since 2000-2001 I'm closing in on 25 years, I think that's why I'm so hard on goaltending because I got to see prime Cujo, and then Eddie, and then Raycroft came, and after about a month he made me sad, and then Toskala came and he made me even sadder.

Maybe Babcock was a slightly better head coach than Berube but Babcock never had the assistant coaches Berube does.

There was never a Stanley cup winning associate coach under Babcock, now there is.