Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Nineteen67]

So we got 4 overpaid forwards. If you do not like the return for Marner, only option is to resign/overpay Marner and we are good once Tavares comes off the books. Need to see what he and the team does in the playoffs before I even consider resigning him. Remember we are not here to sell jerseys.

The extra Tavares’ money goes to Knies and McCabe.

 

[notDatsyuk]

But, Tanev will already be 36 when the 2026 playoffs start. And probably fully declining.

We'll also have more options by then, so it may not matter as much.

 

[notDatsyuk]

So we got 4 overpaid forwards. If you do not like the return for Marner, only option is to resign/overpay Marner and we are good once Tavares comes off the books. Need to see what he and the team does in the playoffs before I even consider resigning him. Remember we are not here to sell jerseys.

Re-signing him isn't the only option - letting him walk and using the $12.5x8 more efficiently is quite likely a better option than overpaying him again, or taking a poor return in a trade.

 

[Tak7]

Re-signing him isn't the only option - letting him walk and using the $12.5x8 more efficiently is quite likely a better option than overpaying him again, or taking a poor return in a trade.

A poor trade is better than no trade.

Getting something tangible, even if it's in the form of draft pick capital in future trades, is better than losing a player for nothing.

We've also seen Tampa walk their captain in Stamkos, right to the brink. not once but twice (this summer, and in 2016). However high people value Marner, he's simply not as successful, or important to the organization, as Stamkos is for Tampa Bay - and if they can walk him to the edge with their heels dug into the sand, there's absolutely 0 reason why the Leafs can't do the same, even if that means letting Marner walk.

The extra Tavares’ money goes to Knies and McCabe.

And Woll's extension.

There is no "extra Tavares money" - it's either already been spent, or will be to keep Knies and McCabe.

 

[Nineteen67]

Re-signing him isn't the only option - letting him walk and using the $12.5x8 more efficiently is quite likely a better option than overpaying him again, or taking a poor return in a trade.

And take the chance that Matthews and Nylander can lead the team.

 

[ToneDog]

Re-signing him isn't the only option - letting him walk and using the $12.5x8 more efficiently is quite likely a better option than overpaying him again, or taking a poor return in a trade.

Poster sounded like keeping him was best option once JT comes off the books. I can see offers being less than market value but I would not expect "poor" offers. Question is how much of a loss are the Leafs willing to take over overpaying him? I do not think the Leafs can stomach allowing him to walk for nothing. They'd rather cave to his ask; the worst possible option IMO.

 

[notDatsyuk]

A poor trade is better than no trade.

Getting something tangible, even if it's in the form of draft pick capital in future trades, is better than losing a player for nothing.

We've also seen Tampa walk their captain in Stamkos, right to the brink. not once but twice (this summer, and in 2016). However high people value Marner, he's simply not as successful, or important to the organization, as Stamkos is for Tampa Bay - and if they can walk him to the edge with their heels dug into the sand, there's absolutely 0 reason why the Leafs can't do the same, even if that means letting Marner walk.


And Woll's extension.

There is no "extra Tavares money" - it's either already been spent, or will be to keep Knies and McCabe.

Not necessarily. As an extreme example, what if the only trade offered was Marner at 30% retained + a 1st for Nurse?

And take the chance that Matthews and Nylander can lead the team.

He's not leading the team, so maybe someone we can get in FA can lead better than Matty or Willy. Letting Mitch go isn't going to make the leadership worse.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not necessarily. As an extreme example, what if the only trade offered was Marner at 30% retained + a 1st for Nurse?


He's not leading the team, so maybe someone we can get in FA can lead better than Matty or Willy. Letting Mitch go isn't going to make the leadership worse.

It’s starting to look like they’ve hitched to the wrong horses.

 

[nuck]

Not necessarily. As an extreme example, what if the only trade offered was Marner at 30% retained + a 1st for Nurse?

Nurse is not very good. Trouba not very good. Laine not very good. Mitch is objectively more expensive than he delivers but he is a legit star in this league and they don't need to retain and take a declining player with a big salary to deal him.

You can for sure do better than by taking a bad player in return. The retention is possible tho and if that increases the possible trade partners and/or the return do it. Meier brought a 1st, a conditional 2nd, and one of the Devils best prospects and Timo was a pure late season rental at the time. Marner's floor for a trade return is better than that and they will have space to do a TDL add when the time comes. That is still what I would call a weak return but they can work with it.

Treating him as an own rental shouldn't be an option because what if the unbalanced roster fails early again? Can they risk that? Shanny gone, Tre maybe. You would think after his speech that a sense of self p[reservation would compel BS to do more than just look at real changes.

Unless people actually think it isn't an unbalanced roster and its all Sheldon's fault(maybe true but the time to experiment with that was last year).

 

[-DeMo-]

i still question your math why was Willy and Mattews not on the that chart you provided

because they didn't have a contract for this upcoming season when he was hired.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It’s starting to look like they’ve hitched to the wrong horses.

I thought it started looking that way when they signed Tavares.

If you're referring specifically to Matthews and Nylander, then I would call them the best we currently have.

 

[tuckerintensity]

It's been fine overall. It's not great, but it's also not terrible and he filled some spaces in the lineup that needed help (even if I think term on a couple was too much). Maybe something larger is coming via trade, but it appears similar to other years in the Shanahan era, trying to find the right mix of guys to take the next step. I don't know if this is it, but I don't know that it's not either. Winning's hard and we're going to be in tough in the first round again regardless of what changes he did or didn't make.

 

[notbias]

A poor trade is better than no trade.

Getting something tangible, even if it's in the form of draft pick capital in future trades, is better than losing a player for nothing.

We've also seen Tampa walk their captain in Stamkos, right to the brink. not once but twice (this summer, and in 2016). However high people value Marner, he's simply not as successful, or important to the organization, as Stamkos is for Tampa Bay - and if they can walk him to the edge with their heels dug into the sand, there's absolutely 0 reason why the Leafs can't do the same, even if that means letting Marner walk.

Stamkos was never important to Tampa... Tampa proved that when he was injured.

Stamkos also has worse stats than Marner and is not great defensively.

Not saying Marner is doing amazing things, just that Stamkos was nothing to Tampa.

 

[Racer88]

because they didn't have a contract for this upcoming season when he was hired.

They had 1 more year on their current deals didn’t they when he was hired. Their new deals don’t start until this coming year

 

[Tak7]

Stamkos was never important to Tampa... Tampa proved that when he was injured.

Stamkos also has worse stats than Marner and is not great defensively.

Not saying Marner is doing amazing things, just that Stamkos was nothing to Tampa.

Most games, goals, and points in franchise history.

1st overall pick at a time when the franchise needed a new star.

3 Finals. 2 Cups.

A special connection with fans.

It's cute if you want to pretend he was never important, but Tampa fans loudly disagree with you.

He's significantly more important to Tampa than Marner is to the Leafs - if Tampa can walk him to the edge, twice, there's no reason why the Leafs can't do the same with a player who has achieved considerably less, and doesn't have the same connection to this fanbase.

Not necessarily. As an extreme example, what if the only trade offered was Marner at 30% retained + a 1st for Nurse?

Thought it went without saying that I was talking about a poor return on a trade, not a bad trade, but there's your clarification.

 

[-DeMo-]

They had 1 more year on their current deals didn’t they when he was hired. Their new deals don’t start until this coming year

yes that's correct, that's why for this upcoming season when Tre took over he had close to 52 million in cap space for this upcoming season.

 

[notbias]

Most games, goals, and points in franchise history.

1st overall pick at a time when the franchise needed a new star.

3 Finals. 2 Cups.

A special connection with fans.

It's cute if you want to pretend he was never important, but Tampa fans loudly disagree with you.

He's significantly more important to Tampa than Marner is to the Leafs - if Tampa can walk him to the edge, twice, there's no reason why the Leafs can't do the same with a player who has achieved considerably less, and doesn't have the same connection to this fanbase.

He's never been needed in a hockey sense.

Sure, he has been the face of a franchise for a while, but he hasn't been important to any of their cups.

He played 2:47 in one of the cup wins... that is 2 minutes and 47 seconds.

Can you explain how he contributed that year? You cited it as an accomplishment for him, so would be curious how you can justify him being important that year.

He's been a secondary piece... Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Vasi, they've had much more important players.

 

[conFABulator]

A-? And I thought those that gave him a C+ were generous.

I give a C. Tanev is OK, but these contracts are going to be hard to deal with in a year or two. I’m thinking to next off season and wondering how the new GM will unravel this mess.

I am not disagreeing with term being an issue, but what are examples of deals or moves that were made this off-season that don't come with this risk?

I think he minimized risk quite well. Tanev took long term to minimize the AAV. He will LTIR when it becomes an issue.

Tanev, OEL and Haakanpaa signed for less than Lyubushkin, Edmundson and Brodie did. That's some good work.

Oh, I would go B+.

We have improved the D, the G and kept the F together while creating room for kids to contribute. We also overhauled the coaching staff.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Stamkos was never important to Tampa...

That is one wild take.

 

[Gabriel426]

The extra Tavares’ money goes to Knies and McCabe.

You forgot Woll and Holmberg

 

[Gabriel426]

Poster sounded like keeping him was best option once JT comes off the books. I can see offers being less than market value but I would not expect "poor" offers. Question is how much of a loss are the Leafs willing to take over overpaying him? I do not think the Leafs can stomach allowing him to walk for nothing. They'd rather cave to his ask; the worst possible option IMO.

As long as Drai is still unsign, I doubt the Leafs would commit to MM long term as it might be wise to save those cap space for McD in two years.

Once Drai extends with Oilers, then that’s another story.

 

[notbias]

That is one wild take.

I'd love to hear an argument of how he was very important for their cup runs.

Start with the one where he played 3 minutes for the entire playoffs.

Of course he was important (most players on a cup winning team are), but as a secondary scorer

The second cup run he was ineffective at 5v5, only a PP threat and played less than 8 other forwards.

 

[conFABulator]

The extra Tavares’ money goes to Knies and McCabe.

you think the increases for Knies and McCabe will total $11M? What numbers do you think we sign them for?

 

[Racer88]

He's never been needed in a hockey sense.

Sure, he has been the face of a franchise for a while, but he hasn't been important to any of their cups.

He played 2:47 in one of the cup wins... that is 2 minutes and 47 seconds.

Can you explain how he contributed that year? You cited it as an accomplishment for him, so would be curious how you can justify him being important that year.

He's been a secondary piece... Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Vasi, they've had much more important players.

It was a hell of a 2:47

 

[Racer88]

We can go on and on about Treliving but I think he deserves more than just 1 rushed off season before we judge him.
Don’t forget Dubas had 5 years to make something out of this core/team and all he managed was 1 playoff round. Also don’t forget his team was beaten by a bloody Zamboni driver in net for the other team.
It’s time to admit Dubas was a dumpster fire