Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Gabriel426]

Can you even built good depth when 50 of the 88mil went into 5 players? Of which 4 of them are forwards who seem to underperform in the playoffs?

6 of the 12 goals were scored by non Big 4 players this past playoffs. To be fair two of them didn’t play all the games.

13 of the 23 goals against Tampa in the 1st round were scored by the big 4 last year.

3 of the 10 goals against Panthers in the 2nd round were scored by the big 4 last year.

In terms of regular season
146 of 279 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 22-23.

164 Of 303 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 23-24.

We have a system and team that our big 4 needs to score over 50% of the goals.

Although a small sample size, but it shows that Big 4 scoring 50% of the goals means winning a playoffs series.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

has this discussion gone off the rails or are we rehashing old rivalries here?

 

[notbias]

Can you even built good depth when 50 of the 88mil went into 5 players? Of which 4 of them are forwards who seem to underperform in the playoffs?

6 of the 12 goals were scored by non Big 4 players this past playoffs. To be fair two of them didn’t play all the games.

13 of the 23 goals against Tampa in the 1st round were scored by the big 4 last year.

3 of the 10 goals against Panthers in the 2nd round were scored by the big 4 last year.

In terms of regular season
146 of 279 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 22-23.

164 Of 303 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 23-24.

We have a system and team that our big 4 needs to score over 50% of the goals.

Although a small sample size, but it shows that Big 4 scoring 50% of the goals means winning a playoffs series.

We have got to have some of the cheapest goalies in the NHL this year, so use some of that to offset the price of our forwards.

We are spending $8 million less on goaltending than the champs last year.

Does that makeup for the forwards being overpaid?

 

[-DeMo-]

So he had 52 million, but needed basically an entire roster, good example

when the argument was he was cap strapped and didn't have much flexibility that's pretty much completely incorrect

Right, so refer to my OP then. He had no assets to upgrade those aside from UFA signings

I didn't mention anything about the assets, you stated he received a cap strapped team when the reality was he had a huge amount of flexibility and cap space with the roster he inherited.

 

[Menzinger]

What kind of change are you looking for? Re-tooling, tanking, trading Nylander for a power forward? Shanny/Tre would be crazy to do scorched earth with all this talent in their primes. Put yourself in Treliving's shoes. Why would he sabotage his job? He can't listen to angry fans' wishes to punch Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares/Rielly in the head as he trades them out of town. They all share the blame. They also haven't had complete competitive teams all these years. They either have shitty goalies, bad defense, or donkeys like Galchenyuk/Barrie/Engvall/Kerfoot.

I'm not necessarily advocating for change - was just pointing out we don't know how seriously the front office has considered changing the core.

That said, Tre is paid a huge amount of money to figure questions like that out and I don't buy the idea that he can't make major changes

 

[arso40]

Can you even built good depth when 50 of the 88mil went into 5 players? Of which 4 of them are forwards who seem to underperform in the playoffs?

6 of the 12 goals were scored by non Big 4 players this past playoffs. To be fair two of them didn’t play all the games.

13 of the 23 goals against Tampa in the 1st round were scored by the big 4 last year.

3 of the 10 goals against Panthers in the 2nd round were scored by the big 4 last year.

In terms of regular season
146 of 279 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 22-23.

164 Of 303 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 23-24.

We have a system and team that our big 4 needs to score over 50% of the goals.

Although a small sample size, but it shows that Big 4 scoring 50% of the goals means winning a playoffs series.

id love to know the specifics of whos scoring for the big 4

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

First off, of course this my opinion. It's a message board, we're all just posting our opinions.

I may be the first to suggest that we DO have a regular season problem. What is it? We've never been the best team in our division, save for one bubble year. Despite our offense clicking in the regular season, we still haven't ever been the best team in the East. Have we been a strong defensive team, or one that relies on outscoring our opponents?

Fast forward to the playoffs, every team has employed the same strategy of taking away our time and space to beat us... and we haven't really had an answer. This purely comes down to systems and strategy, an area where we really lacked with Keefe. That said, I was impressed with the fact we pivoted to a 'dump and chase' style of hockey midway through the Boston series and that got us back in it. However, that is playing into the strategy of your opponent, not pushing your own game. It's difficult to make a big change like this when the playoffs begin. You can't just flip a switch.

The Power Play? Again, good in the regular season when playing a bunch of different teams, but it was predictably poor in the playoffs. Why? Because we really only used PP1 in the regular season. When teams strategized to neutralize it, we had no answer. How good could your second unit be when they barely get PP time in the regular season? It was one of my biggest annoyances with Keefe and co., but the good regular season performance didn't cause many to complain. It was especially confusing as we had enough talent to have two strong units. I expect a more balanced PP, that focuses on getting as much 'garbage goals' as pretty ones, and really gives the ice time to those that deserve it.

Is coaching the only answer? Probably not, but it was clear to me 'our game' wasn't cut for playoff hockey. That should change with Berube, and we will find out who fits and who doesn't this year.

Agreed. I would add that IMO people that are complaining that we went so hard on D this off season when our problem is scoring goals should entertain the fact that our weak D was maybe a cause of our weak offense. In order to play tight defense to make up for the weak D...the forwards are just worrying so much about getting scored on that they let their offensive game suffer. Here's hoping that the offense is more comfortable and not as concerned and they can capitalize on some chances. Either that, or start firing guys into the sun...

 

[Racer88]

So in your unbiased opinion, which is a bigger problem, and more important to address: fringe players on small contracts who suck, or core players on very expensive contracts who suck even more?

Great question…….i know what my answer would be .lol

 

[Racer88]

then actually it was more because I forgot he signed Austin so it was closer to 48 million

going to edit this also forgot he signed Kampf so the total cap space was 51 million in cap space the day he was hired for this upcoming season.

This must be some new fangled math. Can you show your work

 

[notbias]

This must be some new fangled math. Can you show your work

Those are the players left from before Treliving got here.

Treliving would have had $51 million to work with and change the team how he sees fit, but he has made the signings he deemed best for the team and has used the $51 million the best he could.

So saying that cap is an issue is just wrong... the majority of the cap was used how Treliving deemed best.

 

[notbias]

Great question…….i know what my answer would be .lol

I gave a detailed response and said both, but I think depth has been a bigger problem, and showed how over the last 3 years, our stars on average performed decent, and outside of ROR our best performing depth produced at 46 point pace (4 points in 7 games).

3 seasons was deemed too big of a sample size for some reason and he wanted one season, so I gave a silly response because it is a silly time frame.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Can you even built good depth when 50 of the 88mil went into 5 players? Of which 4 of them are forwards who seem to underperform in the playoffs?

6 of the 12 goals were scored by non Big 4 players this past playoffs. To be fair two of them didn’t play all the games.

13 of the 23 goals against Tampa in the 1st round were scored by the big 4 last year.

3 of the 10 goals against Panthers in the 2nd round were scored by the big 4 last year.

In terms of regular season
146 of 279 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 22-23.

164 Of 303 goals were scored by the Big 4 in 23-24.

We have a system and team that our big 4 needs to score over 50% of the goals.

Although a small sample size, but it shows that Big 4 scoring 50% of the goals means winning a playoffs series.

No you can't win like that unless your core 5 dominates the playoffs it's over the leafs but they are stuck no one will trade might as well run it back

 

[-DeMo-]

This must be some new fangled math. Can you show your work

the math is pretty simple, as a leaf fan it's sad that I would have to. Seems to me like it should be all but common knowledge as a Leaf's fan, unless your trying to push some sort of bias @notbias pretty much summed it up already

View attachment 893153

Those are the players left from before Treliving got here.

View attachment 893155

Treliving would have had $51 million to work with and change the team how he sees fit, but he has made the signings he deemed best for the team and has used the $51 million the best he could.

So saying that cap is an issue is just wrong... the majority of the cap was used how Treliving deemed best.

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 893153

Those are the players left from before Treliving got here.

View attachment 893155

Treliving would have had $51 million to work with and change the team how he sees fit, but he has made the signings he deemed best for the team and has used the $51 million the best he could.

So saying that cap is an issue is just wrong... the majority of the cap was used how Treliving deemed best.

Nothing changes the fact that 50% of the cap is used for 4 similar forwards and 50% is used for the other 19 players on the ice how do you guys not see this as a problem. Absolutely no other team has a cap distribution like this so yes we do have an issue with the cap

 

[Racer88]

the math is pretty simple, as a leaf fan it's sad that I would have to. Seems to me like it should be all but common knowledge as a Leaf's fan, unless your trying to push some sort of bias @notbias pretty much summed it up already

Who cares how you guys frame the numbers or how many players you say are left over before Treliving ….. this part carefully 4 SIMILAR FORWARD TAKE 50% of the cap leaving 50% to fill out the 19 remaining players. That is a cap problem

 

[notbias]

Nothing changes the fact that 50% of the cap is used for 4 similar forwards and 50% is used for the other 19 players on the ice how do you guys not see this as a problem. Absolutely no other team has a cap distribution like this so yes we do have an issue with the cap

Treliving signed the two highest contracts.

The point is, that half of the cap was free to change the team, and he didn't change it, that is all that was being pointed out.

Treliving had the ability to make changes, but he chose not to.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Great question…….i know what my answer would be .lol

Instead of giving a straight answer he moved the goalposts again, and when I called him on it (again) he switched to childishness.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nothing changes the fact that 50% of the cap is used for 4 similar forwards and 50% is used for the other 19 players on the ice how do you guys not see this as a problem. Absolutely no other team has a cap distribution like this so yes we do have an issue with the cap

No, apparently Tre was free to trade or let both Matthews and Nylander walk, which he seems to think would have improved the team. On the other hand, he thinks we should keep Marner, so....

 

[Gabriel426]

id love to know the specifics of whos scoring for the big 4

Willie in the past two series. AM,MM and JT scored in the TB series last playoffs.

We have got to have some of the cheapest goalies in the NHL this year, so use some of that to offset the price of our forwards.

We are spending $8 million less on goaltending than the champs last year.

Does that makeup for the forwards being overpaid?

Part of that is bc Leafs got 4 forwards at 40mil the past 5-6 seasons and will be 45mil this coming season.

No you can't win like that unless your core 5 dominates the playoffs it's over the leafs but they are stuck no one will trade might as well run it back

If our big Four Forwards are actually McD, Drai, Mack and Barkov. Think results might be a little different.
But thats just me

 

[Captain Crunch]

View attachment 893153

Those are the players left from before Treliving got here.

View attachment 893155

Treliving would have had $51 million to work with and change the team how he sees fit, but he has made the signings he deemed best for the team and has used the $51 million the best he could.

So saying that cap is an issue is just wrong... the majority of the cap was used how Treliving deemed best.

Sorry, I'm late on this conversation. So, are you saying that it was Tre's decision to resign Matthews and Nylander?

Treliving signed the two highest contracts.

The point is, that half of the cap was free to change the team, and he didn't change it, that is all that was being pointed out.

Treliving had the ability to make changes, but he chose not to.

You can't be serious! Tre had to sign Matthews and Nylander because Shanahan had already told them they would be back. That was Shanahan's decision, and I am sure that Tre was told that when he was hired.

So in a sense you are right, Tre had a choice with how he was going to spend the remaining cap. He tried to improve the lack of offense on the backend, which had been a huge problem, by signing Klingberg. Was it Tre's fault that Klingberg got injured and may not play again? Or was it the Leafs' medical staff who may have missed how serious his past injury problems were? Whichever the case, scoring from the backend was something that had to be addressed.

That didn't happen this past season, but here's hoping that OEL can help with that, as well as that toothless PP which killed us in the Boston series. Also, bringing in Tanev gives Rielly the partner that he hasn't had in years (Brodie was very good his first few seasons with Rielly, but Tanev is much better). Concerning his past injury concerns, in two of the last three seasons he has played 82 and 75 games, so here's hoping that continues. His contract is obviously too long, but if he brings what most of us are expecting/hoping, it will be worth it!

 

[Nineteen67]

Who cares how you guys frame the numbers or how many players you say are left over before Treliving ….. this part carefully 4 SIMILAR FORWARD TAKE 50% of the cap leaving 50% to fill out the 19 remaining players. That is a cap problem

53% is fine this year, but holding on to the assets and letting them expire without a return is suicide. This year he doubled down and brought in more suspect contracts without addressing the real needs for long term success.

I assume they’re hoping Berube can make them competitive in the second round.

 

[fahad203]

Feels like its the same team
Instead of Brodie/Gio we have Tanev

Forward group is the same

 

[JT AM da real deal]

A coach does not go onto ice and/or turn a scardy cat into a tiger in playoffs .. it comes from within da player himself .. Matty, Mitch, Willy and JT don't have da eye of da tiger and never ever ever will .. no matter what anyone says they never will get it .. like I told you guys until Mitch and JT are gone this team is not going anywhere in playoff hockey .. Matty and Willy have skill, size and speed to compete as part of overall tougher meaner team but they will never lead men .. but every team needs a sniper who can score and both Matty and Willy can shoot

 

[Tak7]

Feels like its the same team
Instead of Brodie/Gio we have Tanev

Forward group is the same

It's worse without Bertuzzi - they've lost a top 6 guy, and haven't replaced him with anyone.

Oh, and they're now out of cap space.

 

[Mess]

Feels like its the same team
Instead of Brodie/Gio we have Tanev

Forward group is the same

I firmly believe forward change is coming ...

Leafs are trying to move on from Marner, but its complicated.

However I expect some more inherited holdovers from the past regime like David Kampf, Calle Jarnkrok, and Conor Timmins on D, are being discussed for departure and then allow for replacement, once some more cap space is created.

Treliving had been pacient and methodical to date, but change is coming !! He has his prioirites straight start with the Goaltending out, then the defense and then focus on the Leafs forwards (offense).

PS. "Play the Kids" .. Expect to see youngsters like Fraser Minten and Easton Cowan to get long locks and Leafs attempt to start building from with-in and focus returns to drafting and developing their own internal NHL replacements.