Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[notbias]

That really doesn’t answer my question. Obviously that 20 million comes from players leaving so how many players need to be replaced.

This is sorted by games played.

Bertuzzi, Domi, Brodie, Gregor, Robertson, Liljegren, Gio, Lagesson, Lub, Dewar, Klingberg, Edmundson, Samsanov.

Realistically, with signed players, we had about $21 million and this was our lineup.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
McMann - Tavares - Nylander
X - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
X - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - X
McCabe - X
Benoit - X

Woll
X

It's been changed to this and we have about $1 million (can move Benoit/Timmins/Reaves to the minors).

Knies - Matthews - Domi
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Nylander - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
X - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Liljegren
OEL - Hakanpaa

Woll
Stolarz

Extras: Timmins, Benoit

I think the signings were pretty terrible last year, so for sure got better in my opinion, but I don't think it is a big upgrade.

Biggest concerns are the signings on the backend, Liljegren is overpaid, OEL is overpaid, and Tanev is approaching his retirement, how much more does he have left?

The issue is we paid a couple of guys who have been shown to be bottom pairing in the last few years (still have faith in Liljegren) and paid them like middle pairing D.

I think building a team through free agency is a terrible idea as well, so I think Tre could have done a lot worse too.

Forward group is essentially the same.

We needed most of those things when Dubas was here including including competent goal tending so even tho I’m not really a Treliving fan he is certainly no worse then you guy Dubas who had 5 years to fix these issues and couldn’t ……..because of the cap

We are using the goalie Dubas re-signed as our competent goaltender.

Our best D acquisition was Muzzin, and that is an unfortunate ending.

McCabe was probably our second best, although for a couple of years Brodie was really good.

We will see how the new signings do, but Muzzin likely won't be passed, the other two are obtainable, but I predict Tanev will have a Brodie like dropoff shortly.

I think McCabe at $2 million is a great deal.

 

[thusk]

Montreal had an almost carbon copy of our D back when they elminated us in the 2021 postseason.

Did they also harbor these same issues?

Carbon copy????

Weber an elite 2 way dmen, tell me where his copy carbon was because he was the Main guy in this habs D... Muzzin was good but clearly not at the same level and get injured gm 6 and his injury is exactly when everything changed.

rielly vs petry ... maybe 2 unidimentionnal offensive minded d.

The rest of both D had nothing in commun...

+ habs had something leafs didn't had last 20... An elite goaltender

 

[Bomber0104]

We are using the goalie Dubas re-signed as our competent goaltender.

Is this supposed to be a flex?

We have a goalie we can use from the previous management regime?

Seriously?

Is that some sort of luxury teams get?

Having a goalie from the year before?

What are you even on about?

Our best D acquisition was Muzzin, and that is an unfortunate ending.

So in other words, nothing.

McCabe was probably our second best,

And that cost extremely high draft picks...

1st's and 2nds no?

although for a couple of years Brodie was really good.

And ended up being useless for $4.5M last year.

For the one round win we got in his entire tenure here, I would think we could have gotten a lot more.

Ultimately the player was inconsequential.

He amounted to a single playoff round win in his entire contract.

Fail.

We will see how the new signings do, but Muzzin likely won't be passed, the other two are obtainable, but I predict Tanev will have a Brodie like dropoff shortly.

Yeah but the thing is the way you generally predict things, it goes the other way.

You were Dubas' biggest hype man and all he did was muster up a single playoff round win.

If we're using you as a measure of future success, I think betting against whatever you think is looking pretty good.

I think McCabe at $2 million is a great deal.

And how many draft picks did that take again?

1sts and 2nds right?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

A-? And I thought those that gave him a C+ were generous.

I give a C. Tanev is OK, but these contracts are going to be hard to deal with in a year or two. I’m thinking to next off season and wondering how the new GM will unravel this mess.

Treliving isn't getting fired next year, you are living in fantasy land.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think it is a dumb idea to build your team through free agency and once again many teams (including ours) overpaid for players.

Tanev has ugly term.

OEL is a gamble.

Woll is overpaid.

Liljegren is overpaid.

Domi signing is good.

Stolarz is a good signing.

Hakanpaa signing is fine, but it pushes Benoit out most likely and I am not sure he is an upgrade.

Didn't address our needs for scoring.

A lot of money tied up in #5/6s on D.

Question marks in the net again.

D+, it could have been worse.

The "they can't run it back crowd" seems to be surprisingly okay with them running it back... it's weird.

Look I don't trust Woll's health at all but to call that an overpayment right now is premature.

If he stays healthy that's a bargain because when he's healthy he's really good.

If he doesn't stay healthy, the cap is going to be 93 million by the time contract kicks in It's an easily moveable deal.

At best he's a bargain starter.

At worst he's a quality backup.

 

[Nineteen67]

Treliving isn't getting fired next year, you are living in fantasy land.

I think there’s a good chance he takes Shanny’s position, which isn’t the best case scenario. Best case he’d be let go, too.

 

[notDatsyuk]

They still sucked, it doesn't matter if other players sucked too.



Or depth.

Goaltending maybe has.

So in your unbiased opinion, which is a bigger problem, and more important to address: fringe players on small contracts who suck, or core players on very expensive contracts who suck even more?

 

[LeafGrief]

I'm rather ambivalent. I'm happy with Tanev and OEL. On ice, I think they'll be good for us. Mostly okay with the OEL contract, hate the Tanev contract. If the cap circumvention is written right on the tin then I think it's punishment from the league waiting to happen. Calling it here and now we're going to lose a high pick for that.

Love the Domi deal.

Marner and the other core amigos are still here, which I believe is the only thing that really matters.

So on the one hand, we've picked up and retained some good players. But on the other, this is just another Dubas offseason, with some different defenders coming in to try out some new combination/philosophy of how a new mix in our second and third tier players will really lead to success this time. No change to the big names. Shoestring budget and hope in net, yet again.

New coach, cool, I guess that's where we're supposed to put all of our hopes? We didn't win when we had functioning Muzzin and Brodie, are Tanev and OEL going to be better? The goalie carousel goes around and around, is a kid with 43 career games that different than any of the reclamation projects? Is our non-existent forward depth different this time?

Pinning all our hopes on the coach doesn't strike me as a winning plan.

 

[Mess]

How to build a Winning Hockey Team

1) New Coach

2) New Improved Goaltending. Stolarz #1 in GAA, #1 in SV% #3 in GSAx [With Goalies that played > 25 games]

3) New Defense Core

Adding Size, Physicality, Hits, Block Shots and defense first players.

Good teams are built from the goalie out, through strong defense.

Treliving is Killing It this off-season despite being in CAP HELL with Leafs having 4 forwards in Top 12 highest AAV.

 

[notbias]

So in your unbiased opinion, which is a bigger problem, and more important to address: fringe players on small contracts who suck, or core players on very expensive contracts who suck even more?

Thank you for phrasing this in an impartial way.

My concern is the team getting better, so whichever way that can happen.

My issue is not changing the core, my issue is making changes for the sake of it.

There are far worse playoff performers, especially if you start isolating the last few years.

But I think both are big problems, every NHL team has moments where their depth drags them to the next round because their stars didn't get it done, and we've never had that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Thank you for phrasing this in an impartial way.

My concern is the team getting better, so whichever way that can happen.

My issue is not changing the core, my issue is making changes for the sake of it.

There are far worse playoff performers, especially if you start isolating the last few years.

But I think both are big problems, every NHL team has moments where their depth drags them to the next round because their stars didn't get it done, and we've never had that.

So you have no response but to avoid answering.

Maybe you should take a bit of a break. It seems that your posts are making less and less sense recently.

 

[notbias]

So you have no response but to avoid answering.

Maybe you should take a bit of a break. It seems that your posts are making less and less sense recently.

Last 3 years.

I think depth scoring is a bigger issue.

Tavares is obviously not scoring enough as well.

Rielly is pulling his weight.

Outside of ROR, we've had no one contribute much.

Domi/Mikheyev/Bert are all tied after that with a whopping pace of 46 points/82 games.

So once again, the stars need to do more, but depth scoring is terrible.

"Marner scored 3 points in a game once"

"Not enough cap, who cares if we brought in some of the most expensive UFAs last year, not enough"

I know all the talking points about the stars sucking, but the depth has been atrocious too, this is not exclusive to last year.

 

[notDatsyuk]

View attachment 893094

Last 3 years.

I think depth scoring is a bigger issue.

Tavares is obviously not scoring enough as well.

Rielly is pulling his weight.

Outside of ROR, we've had no one contribute much.

Domi/Mikheyev/Bert are all tied after that with a whopping pace of 46 points/82 games.

So once again, the stars need to do more, but depth scoring is terrible.

"Marner scored 3 points in a game once"

"Not enough cap, who cares if we brought in some of the most expensive UFAs last year, not enough"

I know all the talking points about the stars sucking, but the depth has been atrocious too, this is not exclusive to last year.

Now you've switched it to 3 years?

Just give up - you're embarassing yourself.

 

[notbias]

Now you've switched it to 3 years?

Just give up - you're embarassing yourself.

What's an accurate cutoff?

I use 3 years a lot because I believe it is a decent mix of sample size and current skill level.

Why reply if you have nothing to say?

 

[notDatsyuk]

What's an accurate cutoff?

I use 3 years a lot because I believe it is a decent mix of sample size and current skill level.

Why reply if you have nothing to say?

Since the topic has been the season just passed to the future, and we've all been talking about one season, I'd say one.

Pointing out your mistakes and goalpost moving isn't really "nothing to say".

 

[HockeyVirus]

Considering we have hardly any good prospects (can't afford to move our good ones needed to make change as we need them) and picks, what else can he do? He inherited a team cap strapped with NMC that you can't change, with nothing in the system and no draft picks with gaping holes on defense and in net.

I am not sold on Treliving as a GM. I am hopeful he is not as bad as I think he is. But with all of that said, I don't like building through UFA by overpaying but what other choice did he have?

Not like we can even take this as a retool year as we don't even own our first, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th

 

[notbias]

Since the topic has been the season just passed to the future, and we've all been talking about one season, I'd say one.

Pointing out your mistakes and goalpost moving isn't really "nothing to say".

One season sample size? Idiotic. I wasn't discussing a single season.

If you want to do one season.

We have problems with Nylander and Matthews, both far too injury prone and producing under a PPG when healthy is terrible, trade them.

Marner needs to be traded.

Domi and Bertuzzi are some of the worst playoff performers I've seen relative to their hype, absolutely useless without Matthews.

Woll is Hasek-level when it comes to playoffs and might be the best goalie ever.

Scoring depth was atrocious, that was one of the worst Ds assembled and Treliving should be considered one of the worst GMs of all time.

If you want to collect more data than 7 games, we can talk.

 

[-DeMo-]

Considering we have hardly any good prospects (can't afford to move our good ones needed to make change as we need them) and picks, what else can he do? He inherited a team cap strapped with NMC that you can't change, with nothing in the system and no draft picks with gaping holes on defense and in net.

I am not sold on Treliving as a GM. I am hopeful he is not as bad as I think he is. But with all of that said, I don't like building through UFA by overpaying but what other choice did he have?

Not like we can even take this as a retool year as we don't even own our first, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th

Tre had 35 million in cap space for this up coming season when he took over the job last year. Cap strapped he was not. how much space did he need?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Tre had 35 million in cap space for this up coming season when he took over the job last year. Cap strapped he was not. how much space did he need?

35 million not including our #1 C, #1 W, two goalies, 2 top 4 dmen, etc?

 

[-DeMo-]

35 million not including our #1 C, #1 W, two goalies, 2 top 4 dmen, etc?

then actually it was more because I forgot he signed Austin so it was closer to 48 million

going to edit this also forgot he signed Kampf so the total cap space was 51 million in cap space the day he was hired for this upcoming season.

 

[HockeyVirus]

then actually it was more because I forgot he signed Austin so it was closer to 48 million

Are you talking about next offseason?

 

[-DeMo-]

Are you talking about next offseason?

no this off season, when he was hired only Knies, Marner, Tavares, Jarnkrok, Rielly, McCabe, Woll, Timmins I think had a contract already signed for this year upcoming year giving Tre like 52 million in cap space.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

 

[HockeyVirus]

no this off season, when he was hired only Knies, Marner, Tavares, Jarnkrok, Rielly, McCabe, Woll, Timmins I think had a contract already signed for this year upcoming year giving Tre like 52 million in cap space.

Right, so refer to my OP then. He had no assets to upgrade those aside from UFA signings

 

[GoonieFace]

no this off season, when he was hired only Knies, Marner, Tavares, Jarnkrok, Rielly, McCabe, Woll, Timmins I think had a contract already signed for this year upcoming year giving Tre like 52 million in cap space.

So he had 52 million, but needed basically an entire roster, good example