Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Marner has all the playmaking and defensive skills of Dougie, what he lacks is the fearlessness and meanness that earned Gilmour the nickname 'Killer.' Gilmour was a playoff performer from his rookie season up until he retired. Mitch has had like 3 good series out of 8 and part of the reason for that is he lets the pressure get to him and he chokes. Obviously, Mitch's career isn't set in stone, there's still plenty of time for him to flip the narrative. He doesn't even need to become as nasty as Gilmour was (though it wouldn't hurt), he just has to stop letting the moment get the better of him.

 

[Nineteen67]

You are 100% wrong - higher skill set than Gilmour in terms of puckhandling, passing and even shooting . . . but it's a different game, and obviously it's not just about skill.

Agree he needs to play "bigger"... but my main concern is the actual BIG guy (Matty) who plays smaller than Marner, and that skews everything.

I really don't think Marner is the problem - it's the goal scorers on his line. For an elite playmaker, the guys who have to score just still have to score.

And back to the point about Treliving - I think he will recognise and see that, because unlike Dumbass he hasn't been in this market overlooking the faults of "his guys" listening to the atrocious TO media making Matty blameless and perfect while criticizing the 175lb playmaker.

Here's hoping.

Marner and Matthews both lack a skill that Dougie had in spades.

The 2Ms shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence as Gilmour.

 

[Gilmour1996]

Marner and Matthews both lack a skill that Dougie had in spades.

The 2Ms shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence as Gilmour.

Heart?

 

[PromisedLand]

don''t know where to put this and i don't want to start another thread; thought this thread might be more apt

Aug 12, Leafs are still about 3 million over the cap accounting for LTIR; who is getting dealt/shedded from the roster by Tre before the season starts?

 

[Antropovsky]

You are 100% wrong - higher skill set than Gilmour in terms of puckhandling, passing and even shooting . . . but it's a different game, and obviously it's not just about skill.

Agree he needs to play "bigger"... but my main concern is the actual BIG guy (Matty) who plays smaller than Marner, and that skews everything.

I really don't think Marner is the problem - it's the goal scorers on his line. For an elite playmaker, the guys who have to score just still have to score.

And back to the point about Treliving - I think he will recognise and see that, because unlike Dumbass he hasn't been in this market overlooking the faults of "his guys" listening to the atrocious TO media making Matty blameless and perfect while criticizing the 175lb playmaker.

Here's hoping.

So far... this is who certain posters have compared Marner too.. Wayne Gretzky, Doug Gilmour, Patrick Kane. Except Marner also has elite defensive abilities of course.


.... yet Marner struggles mightily in the playoffs.

Something isn't adding up lol

 

[Nineteen67]

Heart?

If that’s what you want to call it.

 

[Nineteen67]

So far... this is who certain posters have compared Marner too.. Wayne Gretzky, Doug Gilmour, Patrick Kane. Except Marner also has elite defensive abilities of course.


.... yet Marner struggles mightily in the playoffs.

Something isn't adding up lol

How does Marner compare to Point or Marchand?

 

[keonsbitterness]

How does Marner compare to Point or Marchand?

Smaller nose.

 

[Antropovsky]

How does Marner compare to Point or Marchand?

...... glad you asked:

Point -
2018-2019: 92 points
2019 signed contract: 3y/6.8 million

Next 3 years playoff stats:
50 gp 29 goals and 56 points
Pace: 48 goals and 92 points

Meanwhile at the same time:
Marner:
2018-2019 season: 94 points
2019 signed contract: 6y/10.9 mi

Next 3 years playoff stats:
19 gp 2 goals 16 points
Pace: 8 goals and 69 points


Summary:
- Marner has cost significantly more money
- Point has been significantly better when it counts.

 

[-DeMo-]

It's not that JT scores too much on the PP (silly idea) but that he doesn't at even strength.

Over the last four seasons McDavid leads the league in even strength points and is just behind Matthews in ES goals.

Thanks for another example that proves my point.

over the last 4 season's Tavares is 11th among Centers in Even strength points. but he doesn't produces at even strength?

 

[Gabriel426]

over the last 4 season's Tavares is 11th among Centers in Even strength points. but he doesn't produces at even strength?

Considering he is the 3rd highest paid C and 5 highest paid player in the league, being 11th in even strength points kind of sucks esp since he doesn't PK.

 

[-DeMo-]

don''t know where to put this and i don't want to start another thread; thought this thread might be more apt

Aug 12, Leafs are still about 3 million over the cap accounting for LTIR; who is getting dealt/shedded from the roster by Tre before the season starts?

View attachment 735550

that's including 13 forwards, 7 Dmen 3 goalie's and Nik Robertson. so I don't really think were over the cap. we can start the year with a 20 man roster.

Considering he is the 3rd highest paid C and 5 highest paid player in the league, being 11th in even strength points kind of sucks esp since he doesn't PK.

I don't care about his cap hit the poster I quoted stated Tavares hasn't produced at even strength which is obviously false he choose the 4 year window on McDavid.

 

[Antropovsky]

Considering he is the 3rd highest paid C and 5 highest paid player in the league, being 11th in even strength points kind of sucks esp since he doesn't PK.

Most star players don't PK.

Tavares plays the position that NHL teams most covet. Winger is probably least coveted.

Center is significantly more difficult to play then wing. Dubois just got nearly 9 million per year and he hasn't broke 28 goals or recorded more than 63 points.

Tavares had one of the best faceoff win % in the league last season

Tavares led the postseason in faceoff win % with 63%.

Faceoff experts are highly coveted.

Tavares had the game 6 game winning goal. Sounds like nothing, except when's the last time a maple leaf scored a gwg in an elimination game?

Tavares had 20 slot shots on net in the playoffs, twice as many as the next leaf.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Tavares is such an enigma. On paper he's fine as a 2C. Consistently a point per game, good on the powerplay, and great on faceoffs. But when you watch he always seems to be outmatched against other top flight centres, his defensive numbers and impact are lacking, and he doesn't drive play as much as you'd like.

My personal opinion is that this rush to get him to the wing is too hasty. He hasn't fallen off to enough of a degree that the team should be dedicating a ton of resources to supplanting him there. His play will decline eventually but until it goes completely off a cliff this talk is premature. There's also enough wing talent to make up for his lack of play-driving and defensive acumen if Keefe gets his head out of his ass and puts Mitch with JT like he did when O'Reilly was here (a line that was excellent and I'll never understand why he never tried it again when the team struggled to score against Florida). We've seen JT-Mitch thrive as a duo and Matthews does not need Mitch in the same way.

 

[IPS]

Tavares is such an enigma. On paper he's fine as a 2C. Consistently a point per game, good on the powerplay, and great on faceoffs. But when you watch he always seems to be outmatched against other top flight centres, his defensive numbers and impact are lacking, and he doesn't drive play as much as you'd like.

My personal opinion is that this rush to get him to the wing is too hasty. He hasn't fallen off to enough of a degree that the team should be dedicating a ton of resources to supplanting him there. His play will decline eventually but until it goes completely off a cliff this talk is premature. There's also enough wing talent to make up for his lack of play-driving and defensive acumen if Keefe gets his head out of his ass and puts Mitch with JT like he did when O'Reilly was here (a line that was excellent and I'll never understand why he never tried it again when the team struggled to score against Florida). We've seen JT-Mitch thrive as a duo and Matthews does not need Mitch in the same way.

There was stretches of games last season where he honestly looked downright awful yet still came away with 10 points in 10 games in said stretch. His lack of speed is just too painful to watch nowadays, the reason he gets outmatched by other top flight centers is because he cannot keep up with them. Tavares' series winning goal + hatty really saved his bacon in that Tampa series, he got badly outplayed by Cirelli on a shift-by-shift basis and utterly slammed when he got caught out against Tampa's big line. No use going over the minutiae of the Florida series - he was just terrible.

 

[Stephen]

You are 100% wrong - higher skill set than Gilmour in terms of puckhandling, passing and even shooting . . . but it's a different game, and obviously it's not just about skill.

Agree he needs to play "bigger"... but my main concern is the actual BIG guy (Matty) who plays smaller than Marner, and that skews everything.

I really don't think Marner is the problem - it's the goal scorers on his line. For an elite playmaker, the guys who have to score just still have to score.

And back to the point about Treliving - I think he will recognise and see that, because unlike Dumbass he hasn't been in this market overlooking the faults of "his guys" listening to the atrocious TO media making Matty blameless and perfect while criticizing the 175lb playmaker.

Here's hoping.

Matthews and Marner have been together long enough that we know the pros and cons. Matthews really gets into trouble with his game when he starts playing more and more like Marner: the fussy soft touches, finesse plays that work in the regular season but not the playoffs.

 

[Stephen]

Tavares is such an enigma. On paper he's fine as a 2C. Consistently a point per game, good on the powerplay, and great on faceoffs. But when you watch he always seems to be outmatched against other top flight centres, his defensive numbers and impact are lacking, and he doesn't drive play as much as you'd like.

My personal opinion is that this rush to get him to the wing is too hasty. He hasn't fallen off to enough of a degree that the team should be dedicating a ton of resources to supplanting him there. His play will decline eventually but until it goes completely off a cliff this talk is premature. There's also enough wing talent to make up for his lack of play-driving and defensive acumen if Keefe gets his head out of his ass and puts Mitch with JT like he did when O'Reilly was here (a line that was excellent and I'll never understand why he never tried it again when the team struggled to score against Florida). We've seen JT-Mitch thrive as a duo and Matthews does not need Mitch in the same way.

Tavares is a soft landing kind of decline where you want to make sure he's still contributing at a respectable rate but managing the decline in his actual play shift to shift. He's a little like Jason Allison in the sense that there's no foot speed and he looks pretty rough out there but still manages to put up really good numbers and feast on the special teams.

 

[notDatsyuk]

over the last 4 season's Tavares is 11th among Centers in Even strength points. but he doesn't produces at even strength?

Actually 15th, but the main conversation was about his current production.

Two years ago he was 34th, last year he was 49th.

My fault for showing McDavid's consistency over four years, when someone suggested that he wasn't good at even strength either, just because he scored on the PP.

Two years ago McDavid was second in goals and first in points, last year's he was first in goals and second in points at ES.

 

[slozo]

So far... this is who certain posters have compared Marner too.. Wayne Gretzky, Doug Gilmour, Patrick Kane. Except Marner also has elite defensive abilities of course.


.... yet Marner struggles mightily in the playoffs.

Something isn't adding up lol

He does not struggle mightily in the playoffs - that's your own perception, guided by media.

14 pts in 11 gp last year . . . 8 in 7 year before . . . up and down years before that but close to a ppg overall in his career (47 points in 50 games).

That's not a struggle - and that's a strong sample size which is trending upwards "mightily".

Listen - Gilmour was a beast WHILE IN TORONTO, 39 postseason games played, 63 pts . . . he was literally Gretzky while here for those two years. Overall his stats in the playoffs were totally propped up by those two years as he's basically a point per game otherwise up and down, and over his total career ends up 182 gp (postseason) 188 pts.

Marner has the skill in spades; he needs to continue to work on his "toughness/grit"; but he's definitely not struggling dude, not even close.

 

[slozo]

Matthews and Marner have been together long enough that we know the pros and cons. Matthews really gets into trouble with his game when he starts playing more and more like Marner: the fussy soft touches, finesse plays that work in the regular season but not the playoffs.

You are the epitome of the Leafy apologists for Matty! lol
I want you to think about your words . . .

Marner is at fault for MAtthews playing sof, is essentially what you said.
I have no words.

What I REALLY hope, is that Trliving as an outsider doesn't share your opinion at all, and understands that it's MAtty who needs to drive the team or get outta dodge when the going gets rough - because he never has yet.

 

[authentic]

He does not struggle mightily in the playoffs - that's your own perception, guided by media.

14 pts in 11 gp last year . . . 8 in 7 year before . . . up and down years before that but close to a ppg overall in his career (47 points in 50 games).

That's not a struggle - and that's a strong sample size which is trending upwards "mightily".

Listen - Gilmour was a beast WHILE IN TORONTO, 39 postseason games played, 63 pts . . . he was literally Gretzky while here for those two years. Overall his stats in the playoffs were totally propped up by those two years as he's basically a point per game otherwise up and down, and over his total career ends up 182 gp (postseason) 188 pts.

Marner has the skill in spades; he needs to continue to work on his "toughness/grit"; but he's definitely not struggling dude, not even close.

I think it's the no goals after game 2 of any given series and the avoiding contact and giveaways at crucial moments that are cause for concern. His stats honestly look better than what his play has been for the most part.

You are the epitome of the Leafy apologists for Matty! lol
I want you to think about your words . . .

Marner is at fault for MAtthews playing sof, is essentially what you said.
I have no words.

What I REALLY hope, is that Trliving as an outsider doesn't share your opinion at all, and understands that it's MAtty who needs to drive the team or get outta dodge when the going gets rough - because he never has yet.

Matthews has been way better than Marner in the playoffs when it's mattered most. Marner shines in the first two games of a series when the scoring is still high.

 

[Antropovsky]

He does not struggle mightily in the playoffs - that's your own perception, guided by media.

14 pts in 11 gp last year . . . 8 in 7 year before . . . up and down years before that but close to a ppg overall in his career (47 points in 50 games).

That's not a struggle - and that's a strong sample size which is trending upwards "mightily".

Listen - Gilmour was a beast WHILE IN TORONTO, 39 postseason games played, 63 pts . . . he was literally Gretzky while here for those two years. Overall his stats in the playoffs were totally propped up by those two years as he's basically a point per game otherwise up and down, and over his total career ends up 182 gp (postseason) 188 pts.

Marner has the skill in spades; he needs to continue to work on his "toughness/grit"; but he's definitely not struggling dude, not even close.

Numerous writers have analyzed Marners game and discovered that his game isn't among the elite. I've posted a handful of the articles. Show me another star player where numerous writers have highlighted their shortcomings as much as him. Where there's smoke there's fire. The authors cited numerous advanced stats that he's lacking in.

 

[Stephen]

You are the epitome of the Leafy apologists for Matty! lol
I want you to think about your words . . .

Marner is at fault for MAtthews playing sof, is essentially what you said.
I have no words.

What I REALLY hope, is that Trliving as an outsider doesn't share your opinion at all, and understands that it's MAtty who needs to drive the team or get outta dodge when the going gets rough - because he never has yet.

I’m not blaming Marner for Matthews choosing to mirror his style of play when they are together, but thank you for explaining what I said to me.

 

[slozo]

Numerous writers have analyzed Marners game and discovered that his game isn't among the elite. I've posted a handful of the articles. Show me another star player where numerous writers have highlighted their shortcomings as much as him. Where there's smoke there's fire. The authors cited numerous advanced stats that he's lacking in.

Show me a graph of the players who have the most articles written about them, and I'll show you the Leafs . . . Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly, Nylander all have WAY more written about them than likely any other player in the league minus your Crosby, Ovechkin etc.

Toronto creates smoke because that creates interest/hits/likes etc for their existence.

 

[colchar]

Heart?

Yeah, and something south of there.