Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[notbias]

Evaluate his team, evaluate his staff, evaluate his player... talk with key player of the club

Try to talk to different team to show his vision talked to coach but unable to reach a deal, guy like hanifin/zadorov/ tanev are pretty easy to imagine, think about plan B, c, d , e, f...

Honestly im not sure if he had 1 night he was able to sleep all night long...

I think some here really underrated everything a gm need to do especially in a new team

Good thing we have like 30 assistant GMs... I bet he had the easiest transition possible in Toronto... we have so much staff and resources to help him.

 

[TimeZone]

OEL was Garbage. This year he's a a 23min a night defender getting decent results against top pairing competition for ~2million. One team picked the right reclamation project. It wasn't us.

My bad, that was in a different thread. It's not a matter of opinion. Our cheapness in goal allows for an average/above average middle F spend and an average/below average D spend.

Yes it was. Your standards are just out of wack. We don't have to overspend on depth to make it work. We just have to choose the right players.

Lets forget about the previous 5 seasons due to a miniscule 12 games played so far this season?

Sure, I suppose there's another L for Dubas, failing to keep Rocket Richard contender Trevor Moore.

Our cheapness in goal is arguably leading to our biggest flaw right now, our goaltending is garbage and needs to be addressed unless things change drastically.

My standards aren't out of wack for expecting a competitive team when we have as much high end talent as we do, they should be the expectation for any win who cares about achieving actual playoff success as oppossed to being a paper juggernaut who dominates the regular season and falls on their face come playoffs time and time again.

 

[cyris]

Tre has made some poor decisions, im a poor spot situation but they're far from the big picture here, 3 out of the 4 of his signings are one year contracts, it's not as if there's some massive risk at stake here that's going to bury us long term.

As far as "What I feel were bad decisions"...Well, do you feel otherwise? Did you like the Foligno deal initially? Did you think it was wise allowing Seattle to take a two way stud in McCann who had underlying numbers that showcased an offensive breakout was far more likely than not to occur?

I can't imagine Schenn would be providing much defensive play and toughness from his hospital bed. I love Schenn, but the guy cashed in big on a lare career nice contract year, his time has come and gone. Would I swap Hathaway for Reaves? Sure I would, do I think that would make a big difference on where we currently are in the standings? No. This team has significantly larger issues at play than who plays 7 minutes a game on their fourth line.

Reaves and Klingberg both look as if they're poised to sit Tomorrow against Calgary.

DUBAS IS GONE!

He has NOTHING to do with the decisions the current GM has made. I have clearly stated in this thread that I felt Dubas deserved to lose his job. But any poor decisions he made doesn’t excuse the poor decisions the current GM is making.
You know who also has too much money tied up in the core 4 and didn’t move 1 before their trade protection kicked in? Brad Treliving.

Did I like the Foligno trade at the time hell no. I said it was a massive overpay.
Jarred McCann I’d hoped they would find a way to keep but unlike you apparently I understand why it was a smart move to still acquire him just to lose him but really NONE of that means anything as to the moves the current GM is making.
Just because you hate the last GM doesn’t mean you have to like the new guy. They should both be judged on their own accord.

 

[4thline]

Lets forget about the previous 5 seasons due to a miniscule 12 games played so far this season?

Sure, I suppose there's another L for Dubas, failing to keep Rocket Richard contender Trevor Moore.

Our cheapness in goal is arguably leading to our biggest flaw right now, our goaltending is garbage and needs to be addressed unless things change drastically.

My standards aren't out of wack for expecting a competitive team when we have as much high end talent as we do

The standards I was referring to were those regarding the amount of money needed to build said competitive team.
We expect the same thing.
We have/had the money. We made choices. The expectations remain unchanged. We either chose right or we didn't. If we didn't, we either correct that or we don't. The horses and cap space were/are there for a 100+ point with expectations of doing damage in the playoffs. Anything less is a disappointment.

Everyone thought at the time Bertuzzi was an amazing signing and who knows, he might still be in the coming months. These days he is starting to look a little better.

Domi performed well in the playoffs last year and provided some grit.

Both of these signings at the time were justifiable.

As long as the plan was to fill out an offense heavy top 9 with 2 ELC's/ million or less players, and build the 4 thline to bring solid D and pkers.

 

[thusk]

Good thing we have like 30 assistant GMs... I bet he had the easiest transition possible in Toronto... we have so much staff and resources to help him.

He still need time to know whos those assistant are, make connection with them

Do the same thing individually with all his player
- prepare his draft whos taking a lot of time, just individual interview and whatever, thats probabky took half of his time
Just exemple spend 1 hour by player and staff member... thats make a lot of time or even just 1/2 hour

He need to take time to talk with keefe proably somewhere 10 to 20 hours just to know who he is as person, how he see the thing, how he see the futur and whatever... just to know if he keep him as a coach or nor

Talk to shanahan

At the same time, try to fix where the need are, discuss with other gm about trade, draft day trade and etc...

Thats going pretty fast sorry

 

[TimeZone]

DUBAS IS GONE!

He has NOTHING to do with the decisions the current GM has made. I have clearly stated in this thread that I felt Dubas deserved to lose his job. But any poor decisions he made doesn’t excuse the poor decisions the current GM is making.
You know who also has too much money tied up in the core 4 and didn’t move 1 before their trade protection kicked in? Brad Treliving.

Did I like the Foligno trade at the time hell no. I said it was a massive overpay.
Jarred McCann I’d hoped they would find a way to keep but unlike you apparently I understand why it was a smart move to still acquire him just to lose him but really NONE of that means anything as to the moves the current GM is making.
Just because you hate the last GM doesn’t mean you have to like the new guy. They should both be judged on their own accord.

Your complete and utter failure at acknowledging that the guy who was here for half a decade + is significantly more responsible for the current construction of our roster is leading to an extremely circular discussion.

I don't believe Tre did a good job this summer, but I also acknowledge he was limited in what he was able to do.

I'm willing to give Tre more time before I classify him as "terrible", which I very much believe would be an accurate description of Dubas' tenure as our GM.

I wanted Marner gone, I've stated it numerous times I was disappointed he wasn't moved. However, realistically speaking, I don't believe that's a call Brad nor Dubas for that matter would be making alone, Shanny is pulling the strings at the end of the day here, likely far more than many realize.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Our GM doesn't do anything, it's Shanny.

 

[TimeZone]

The standards I was referring to were those regarding the amount of money needed to build said competitive team.
We expect the same thing.
We have/had the money. We made choices. The expectations remain unchanged. We either chose right or we didn't. If we didn't, we either correct that or we don't. The horses and cap space were/are there for a 100+ point with expectations of doing damage in the playoffs. Anything less is a disappointment.


As long as the plan was to fill out an offense heavy top 9 with 2 ELC's/ million or less players, and build the 4 thline to bring solid D and pkers.

When did we have the money and options?

Certainly not last summer based on the extremely sideways, glass 90% full roster you constructed.

We need quality top 4 Defenseman, we could use a couple of more forwards and we could most surely use some even remotely consistent goaltending, which if things continue down this road will be the most significant need on a team with many.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Just wanted to do a wellness check on everyone here. How are we living? We good?

 

[Martin Skoula]

He still need time to know whos those assistant are, make connection with them

Do the same thing individually with all his player
- prepare his draft whos taking a lot of time, just individual interview and whatever, thats probabky took half of his time
Just exemple spend 1 hour by player and staff member... thats make a lot of time or even just 1/2 hour

He need to take time to talk with keefe proably somewhere 10 to 20 hours just to know who he is as person, how he see the thing, how he see the futur and whatever... just to know if he keep him as a coach or nor

Talk to shanahan

At the same time, try to fix where the need are, discuss with other gm about trade, draft day trade and etc...

Thats going pretty fast sorry

So he comes into a situation where there’s a hard deadline on the core’s NMCs and he chooses to use.. half of it on preparing for a draft he’s not allowed participating in and we only have 3 picks in?

Yeah that’s about the IQ level I expect from him lmao. How do you expect him to trade Marner when he hasn’t assessed the character of the Marlie’a equipment manager for several hours???

Also if he spoke to Keefe for 20 hours and still chose to re-sign him to a new contract, holy shit that’s even funnier.

 

[4thline]

When did we have the money and options?

Certainly not last summer based on the extremely sideways, glass 90% full roster you constructed.

We need quality top 4 Defenseman, we could use a couple of more forwards and we could most surely use some even remotely consistent goaltending, which if things continue down this road will be the most significant need on a team with many.

This is going nowhere. Yes. This past summer.
Players were available, we had the money. You don't like my roster, build a different one. There were plenty of options. We don't need a 30 million dollar d core and 5million dollar players in the 6-7-8 spot to build a great team.

We did 110+ with Campbell/Mrazek and Murray/Samsonov. Goaltending will level out for regular season purposes.


The horses and cap space were/are there for a 100+ point with expectations of doing damage in the playoffs. Anything less is a disappointment.

 

[KPower]

He brought in all defensively shit players.

Waive Reaves and Klingberg.

I know we’re still f***ed, but get rid of these 2 liabilities right away.

 

[4thline]

Can you show me a contender with a more expensive bottom-6 than us?

Vegas most expensive bottom-6 forward: 1.9mil
Boston: 2mil
Avs: 2.5 mil, cheaper depth than us

Dallas is really the only one that’s more expensive because Marchement is overpaid for a fourth liner and they’re running luxury depth in guys like Duchene and Faksa.

We spend more on our depth than most teams and almost all contenders, we just get some of the worst bang for the buck on it.

But, but...

 

[notbias]

He still need time to know whos those assistant are, make connection with them

Do the same thing individually with all his player
- prepare his draft whos taking a lot of time, just individual interview and whatever, thats probabky took half of his time
Just exemple spend 1 hour by player and staff member... thats make a lot of time or even just 1/2 hour

He need to take time to talk with keefe proably somewhere 10 to 20 hours just to know who he is as person, how he see the thing, how he see the futur and whatever... just to know if he keep him as a coach or nor

Talk to shanahan

At the same time, try to fix where the need are, discuss with other gm about trade, draft day trade and etc...

Thats going pretty fast sorry

How long do you think a normal person would have needed to know Reaves was a terrible signing? I'd wager 15 mins and they could have figured it out. That was his first signing here and I am not even sure he has figured it out yet.

He talked a lot about bringing in "snot", so he seemed to think he had a grasp on what the team needed... too bad he appears to be wrong.

 

[TimeZone]

This is going nowhere. Yes. This past summer.
Players were available, we had the money. You don't like my roster, build a different one. There were plenty of options. We don't need a 30 million dollar d core and 5million dollar players in the 6-7-8 spot to build a great team.

We did 110+ with Campbell/Mrazek and Murray/Samsonov. Goaltending will level out for regular season purposes.


The horses and cap space were/are there for a 100+ point with expectations of doing damage in the playoffs. Anything less is a disappointment.

& you assume they would be willing to play here, under higher expectations, more media scrutiny, higher taxes and a significantly inferior climate for the same amount of money to play in Texas, Florida? It's a massive reach, and it still leaves us with significant holes on Defense.

How many contenders are built through FA? That's not how things work in this league, hasn't been for quite some time.

You draft, you build through trades and you add pieces through free agency, some times they work out, sometimes they don't. Our core is here, it's built, you're being far too hard headed and short sighted believing we're a Soucy and Matt Duchene away from becoming a high level contender, it's simply not realistic.

I'm not convinced the goaltending gets to an appropriate level, it hasn't been there for years when things matter most, we've largely been dealing with patches in goal that ride temporary hot streaks and then fall on their faces for over half a decade now, we need a permanent solution at some point, because signing scrubs and praying clearly isn't working out.

I don't care about regular season success, would you rather build a regular season juggernaut who falls on their face in the post season, or a mediocre squad that fizzles out during the regular season with a higher draft selection?

With that being said, I do believe they get back on track and have a solid regular Season, easily qualify for the playoffs, but the end of the day, if this team can't compete for a Stanley Cup I don't give a shit how many regular Season points they muster, and neither should you.

 

[Dragao6]

We are the laughing stock of the league again, and it’s only gonna get worse. When Montreal is gonna be closer to the playoffs then us this year this forum is gonna break down!

 

[TimeZone]

Can you show me a contender with a more expensive bottom-6 than us?

Vegas most expensive bottom-6 forward: 1.9mil
Boston: 2mil
Avs: 2.5 mil, cheaper depth than us

Dallas is really the only one that’s more expensive because Marchement is overpaid for a fourth liner and they’re running luxury depth in guys like Duchene and Faksa.

We spend more on our depth than most teams and almost all contenders, we just get some of the worst bang for the buck on it.

Vegas' third line center is William Karlsson, he plays behind both Jack Eichel, Chandler Stephenson, he makes 5.9 million dollars a Season and is currently their leading scorer. You might want to double check your sources for that one. They were also significantly over the cap when Stone made a miraculous recovery in time for the playoffs, all around strange analogy.

Boston is coming off a season in which their goaltenders arguably had the best regular season(s) statistically in the history of the entire league. Their most expensive bottom six forward is currently Jake Debrusk, who costs roughly 3.7 against the cap. They lost in the first round, jury is out on them this season. Again, your numbers are wrong.

Colorado has some issues in their bottom 6, fortunately for them their core doesn't shrivel up and die come playoff time and they arguably have the best top 4 in the entire league.

All three teams mentioned above are quite easily top 5, probably top 4 in the league in regards to their D core.

Us? We're undeniably in the back half of the league at this point with the regression from Gio, Brodie combined with the injury to Liljegren and Klingberg being absolutely awful.

It's a strange comparison, to say the least.

 

[Judas Tavares]

He brought in all defensively shit players.

Waive Reaves and Klingberg.

I know we’re still f***ed, but get rid of these 2 liabilities right away.

I don't understand why he chose to ignore utility in terms of two-way ability and penalty killing. He had a lot of that in Calgary. Every player lost to FA (plus the trading of Lafferty) had some element of utility. You weren't going to keep most of them, but the fact that there was 0 replacement was odd. Now to be able to get that, gotta go out and pay for it, which will be expensive. At this rate, not worth it if the season is going into the tank.

The saving grace is these are all short contracts. And maybe that was the intention. Patch work until the direction of Nylander/Tavares/Marner are decided plus more knowledge of where the cap is going.

I get the idea around his signings but it was like he plugged medium sized hole while creating a new larger hole.

 

[4thline]

& you assume they would be willing to play here, under higher expectations, more media scrutiny, higher taxes and a significantly inferior climate for the same amount of money to play in Texas, Florida? It's a massive reach, and it still leaves us with significant holes on Defense.

How many contenders are built through FA? That's not how things work in this league, hasn't been for quite some time.

Would those specific players choose to come here? I don't know. Were the players we signed the only combination that would come for that sum of money? Not likely. But the thing you're continually missing is that the biggest issue is mix. I've said in the last couple pages that Bertuzzi and Domi are fine gambles- if you plan the rest of the lineup accordingly.

It's hopefully fixable, but we need a playable 4thline, pk help, and defensive help. I wouldn't bet against Bertuzzi and Domi working out, and the top 9 being pretty potent when all is said and done. But that doesn't fix the issues. We lost the lead D (and only RHD) and the number 3/4F off a damn good pk and didn't replace them. We turned our 4thline into a liability. Those were easy mistakes to not make/ holes to fill in the off-season. Lafferty over Reaves, a defensive/PK D over Klingberg, and the savings on another of the many cheap veteran D to push Gio to 7 and we have several less goals against, even with Sammies struggles.

 

[TimeZone]

Edit : Not even worth it.

 

[thusk]

So he comes into a situation where there’s a hard deadline on the core’s NMCs and he chooses to use.. half of it on preparing for a draft he’s not allowed participating in and we only have 3 picks in?

Yeah that’s about the IQ level I expect from him lmao. How do you expect him to trade Marner when he hasn’t assessed the character of the Marlie’a equipment manager for several hours???

Also if he spoke to Keefe for 20 hours and still chose to re-sign him to a new contract, holy shit that’s even funnier.

The fact he can be there doesn't mean hes not working and his job finish there...

1-And draft is not about the day of the draft, maybe the real result of it will come in 2-3-4-5 year from a trade or sign... we never know whats happening... or just an easy exemple, he dont even know how negociation with nylander will going, he had to keep in mind possibilities to trade him last summer... or even if leafs would had a start like edmonton maybe considerate about trade him at trade deadline or whatever.. we never know what will happen, so the fact leafs had only 3 pick doesn't mean they had to work less than the rest of NHL team... you never know whats can happen.

2- just has info, i already heard from coach exemple like guy Boucher he already spend over 4 hour for an interview for a job... when we consider most of the time team taking 2-3 and something maybe 4 interview judt for a candidate who will not be necessairly your head coach... start to count when your talking about your actual head coach and its the only candidate right now you have to evaluate and after your took you devision all the hour spend to talk about how to build the team for the future... i think you would be extremely surprise to know how many hour can be spend on that kind of thing and to be fair, im not sure if 20 hour is enough.


Just the fact your thinking that way just showing your dont have any idea of an NHL staff job.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Vegas' third line center is William Karlsson, he plays behind both Jack Eichel, Chandler Stephenson, he makes 5.9 million dollars a Season and is currently their leading scorer. You might want to double check your sources for that one. They were also significantly over the cap when Stone made a miraculous recovery in time for the playoffs, all around strange analogy.

Boston is coming off a season in which their goaltenders arguably had the best regular season(s) statistically in the history of the entire league. Their most expensive bottom six forward is currently Jake Debrusk, who costs roughly 3.7 against the cap. They lost in the first round, jury is out on them this season. Again, your numbers are wrong.

Colorado has some issues in their bottom 6, fortunately for them their core doesn't shrivel up and die come playoff time and they arguably have the best top 4 in the entire league.

All three teams mentioned above are quite easily top 5, probably top 4 in the league in regards to their D core.

Us? We're undeniably in the back half of the league at this point with the regression from Gio, Brodie combined with the injury to Liljegren and Klingberg being absolutely awful.

It's a strange comparison, to say the least.

The guy who’s 5th in TOI for forwards and leading them in points is a bottom 6 player? Ok then. Whatever way you want to slice it, their 6th cheapest player is cheaper than ours, their 6 cheapest full time forwards are cheaper than ours as a whole. We can afford their depth, the big 4 aren’t preventing us from spending the same as them or more. It’s not a money problem, it’s that our 5.5 mil forward has 4 points and theirs has 16.

DeBrusk is 4th in forward TOI, again their 6th cheapest guy is cheaper than Kampf, the rest of their bottom 6 is JVR and a bunch of league min contracts. Cap space is not preventing us from spending as much as Boston does on their depth.

No shit they all have better D than us but it’s because they’re spending 20mil on McAvoy + Lindholm + Carlo or Makar + Girard + Towes and we’re spending a Domi’s worth less on Rielly + Brodie + Klingberg.

We have plenty of cap to afford a contender level bottom 6 and D core, we don’t have quality players to spend that money on, and when they’re available we let them get scooped up by competent teams. You could make Tavares disappear tomorrow and that still wouldn’t change.

 

[4thline]

But, but, but...the top two claims that Boston & Vegas don't have a single player in their bottom six that earns over 2 mil? Objectively false.

They have players in their bottom six earning double, nearly triple what he stated.

Good catch. I didn't pay too much attention, because while the details are wrong, the core of the argument is right.

Depth chart vs salary chart, vs toi, easy mistake/miscommunication. to make. Vegas pays 14.05 on their 5-9F (Barbashev/Roy/Stephenson/Howden/Kolesar), Boston 10.3 (Debrusk/Frederic/Geekie/JVR/Lucic).

We're paying 14.25 for Bertuzzi/Domi/Kampf/Jarncrok/Reaves.

We don't need more money for winning depth F.

 

[Zybalto]

It's still early with all the new parts and with injury issues on the back end, we all gotta wait a while longer to pass any kind of judgment.

Still, Gio and Brodie a year older, down McCabe, Lily and Timmins with injuries and basicaly traded Holl for Klingberg and people are wondering why the team looks rough defensively right now? Combine that with the awful goaltending and its not surprising the team is only .500ish.

Looking forward to getting healthy on the backend and the lines a little more solidified.

 

[TimeZone]

The guy who’s 5th in TOI for forwards and leading them in points is a bottom 6 player? Ok then. Whatever way you want to slice it, their 6th cheapest player is cheaper than ours, their 6 cheapest full time forwards are cheaper than ours as a whole. We can afford their depth, the big 4 aren’t preventing us from spending the same as them or more. It’s not a money problem, it’s that our 5.5 mil forward has 4 points and theirs has 16.

DeBrusk is 4th in forward TOI, again their 6th cheapest guy is cheaper than Kampf, the rest of their bottom 6 is JVR and a bunch of league min contracts. Cap space is not preventing us from spending as much as Boston does on their depth.

No shit they all have better D than us but it’s because they’re spending 20mil on McAvoy + Lindholm + Carlo or Makar + Girard + Towes and we’re spending a Domi’s worth less on Rielly + Brodie + Klingberg.

We have plenty of cap to afford a contender level bottom 6 and D core, we don’t have quality players to spend that money on, and when they’re available we let them get scooped up by competent teams. You could make Tavares disappear tomorrow and that still wouldn’t change.

William Karlsson plays on their third line at even strength. He is a high level penalty killer and gets PP time on top of it.

Make no mistake about it, he's playing on their third line.

You need to understand how lines are rolled, Debrusk bounces all over the place, spends a decent amount of time on the PP which accounts for his TOI.

You said "bottom six", unless of course you're of the belief the Golden Knights operate four PP units, I don't think you have a point here.

Now quick, do another one :

How many of the individuals mentioned above by yourself were drafted/developed or brought in via trade vs signed through free agency?

Go ahead.