Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Hoglund4MvP]

The oldest team in the league losing a 1st rounder that becomes a near top 10 pick while missing the Playoffs.

You really can't make this stuff up lol. That's a clown show season.

Happy to be a Leafs fan with Treliving as my GM today, over being a pens fan with dubas as my GM

 

[Donnie740]

Happy to be a Leafs fan with Treliving as my GM today, over being a pens fan with dubas as my GM

Agree 1000%

Treliving’s moves to date have been far superior to the bumbling Kyle Dumbass moves in Pittsburgh.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Get out of jail free cards used on Dubas will never get old.

Wanting to remain contenders doesn't mean you can just do anything. You still need to make moves that end up working out for it to be a good move.

Karlsson trade was 100% stupid. There was much better ways to contend. Or does only Leafs GM live in fantasy world of "so many other moves he could have done"

My post is in reference to the poster suggesting that Dubas talked to Crosby about whether or not he wanted to rebuild or not. I pointed out that the team had already decided to commit to 2 of their main core with big contracts and give NMC to both until both guys are 39 and 40, before Dubas even got there. If you are committing to your main 3 guys til they're 40, you're not rebuilding. What part of that assumption is wrong?

I said Dubas would be dumb to go to Pittsburgh before even got hired there. My reason being they were a lose/lose situation. They were an old team that isn't good enough to be contenders and not bad enough to bottom out and rebuild. Plus they had a bunch of guys that are either not going anywhere or untradable. They already had limited draft capital to use and a weak prospect pool. I guess if you're already in a shit situation, they might as well go for the highest impact player available (Karlsson). I never saw the point as i thought it was useless but i kinda get it. If they didn't make that move and just signed a bunch of middling guys, that wouldn't have moved the needle either, so I guess you swing for the fences. I expected them to still be garbage even with Karlsson and the other additions.

This post is a bit confusing.

Leafs were horribly run during those bubble years. Not sure if you're endorsing Dubas or dissing him. What seems to make sense actually doesn't....

I'm comparing them to the Leafs from the Burke years because they were a team that were aging out and needed a proper rebuild. Instead Burke came in and ownership didn't want that so what does he do, goes out and gets Kessel and Phaneuf. Those 2 weren't going to be enough to make this team a contender all of a sudden. Instead we had a mediocre team for several years that were just outside the playoff picture and not getting good enough draft positions to make an impact that way or even having lost high picks like the ones given up for Kessel.

See the similarities? Both situations were losing situations. I would never have taken that Pens job. That team is going to be mediocre to bad for the next 5 yrs easy. I don't think any GM can turn that group into contenders again.

 

[Stephen]

My post is in reference to the poster suggesting that Dubas talked to Crosby about whether or not he wanted to rebuild or not. I pointed out that the team had already decided to commit to 2 of their main core with big contracts and give NMC to both until both guys are 39 and 40, before Dubas even got there. If you are committing to your main 3 guys til they're 40, you're not rebuilding. What part of that assumption is wrong?

I said Dubas would be dumb to go to Pittsburgh before even got hired there. My reason being they were a lose/lose situation. They were an old team that isn't good enough to be contenders and not bad enough to bottom out and rebuild. Plus they had a bunch of guys that are either not going anywhere or untradable. They already had limited draft capital to use and a weak prospect pool. I guess if you're already in a shit situation, they might as well go for the highest impact player available (Karlsson). I never saw the point as i thought it was useless but i kinda get it. If they didn't make that move and just signed a bunch of middling guys, that wouldn't have moved the needle either, so I guess you swing for the fences. I expected them to still be garbage even with Karlsson and the other additions.


I'm comparing them to the Leafs from the Burke years because they were a team that were aging out and needed a proper rebuild. Instead Burke came in and ownership didn't want that so what does he do, goes out and gets Kessel and Phaneuf. Those 2 weren't going to be enough to make this team a contender all of a sudden. Instead we had a mediocre team for several years that were just outside the playoff picture and not getting good enough draft positions to make an impact that way or even having lost high picks like the ones given up for Kessel.

See the similarities? Both situations were losing situations. I would never have taken that Pens job. That team is going to be mediocre to bad for the next 5 yrs easy. I don't think any GM can turn that group into contenders again.

I'd say there were more similarities between JFJ taking over the pre-cap Leafs and going for broke in 2004 with Dubas in Pittsburgh than Brian Burke.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'd say there were more similarities between JFJ taking over the pre-cap Leafs and going for broke in 2004 with Dubas in Pittsburgh than Brian Burke.

Both can be true. JFJ had the same ownership pressure/ restraints in his tenure but he still had several prime years of Sundin, McCabe, Kaberle, Tucker, etc. He made some bandaid moves like Raycroft, Toskala etc but when Burke took over, the team was basically done at that point and then he added Kessel and Phaneuf. In Pittsburgh it's the same and then Dubas goes all in for Karlsson like Burke did Kessel, just to end up being mediocre anyway.

 

[Dekes For Days]

when Burke took over, the team was basically done at that point and then he added Kessel and Phaneuf. In Pittsburgh it's the same and then Dubas goes all in for Karlsson like Burke did Kessel, just to end up being mediocre anyway.

They don't really seem that similar. One added to a sub-500 basement team. The other added to a bubble team. One added to a group of nothing, to try and fast forward through a rebuild. The other added to a locked in multi-cup winning core that saved their franchise, to try and extend their window. One didn't bother to put protections on their pick. The other top-10 protected their pick. One traded away the current equivalent of 3 first round picks, including a 2nd and 9th overall. The other traded away a 1st likely in the teens, a 2nd, and cap dumps for the player, a 3rd, and a 7th.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Brad has passed the first test by getting this team to the playoffs.

Question is - Can he pass all the tests like Kyle Dubas did?

 

[Havoc]

They don't really seem that similar. One added to a sub-500 basement team. The other added to a bubble team. One added to a group of nothing, to try and fast forward through a rebuild. The other added to a locked in multi-cup winning core that saved their franchise, to try and extend their window. One didn't bother to put protections on their pick. The other top-10 protected their pick. One traded away the current equivalent of 3 first round picks, including a 2nd and 9th overall. The other traded away a 1st likely in the teens, a 2nd, and cap dumps for the player, a 3rd, and a 7th.

At the end of the day Pens are too old to withstand a cup run. Crosby and Malkin are nothing but celebrity name drops to look cool now. If they're your 1-2 and the rest of your team is old farts or meh players, you shouldn't trade for Karlsson.

The fact they're going to miss the playoffs barring an elite finish confirms all of this.

you waste too much energy defending the Pens. Focus on us.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

At the end of the day Pens are too old to withstand a cup run. Crosby and Malkin are nothing but celebrity name drops to look cool now. If they're your 1-2 and the rest of your team is old farts or meh players, you shouldn't trade for Karlsson.

The fact they're going to miss the playoffs barring an elite finish confirms all of this.

you waste too much energy defending the Pens. Focus on us.

Even the kids in my son league, I don't know what they're eating. The league is very different today. Players are so strong and faster. Dubas had no idea what he was doing trading for karlsson with the pens being so old

 

[DueDiligence]

Happy to be a Leafs fan with Treliving as my GM today, over being a pens fan with dubas as my GM

Treliving’s moves to date have been far superior to the bumbling Kyle Dumbass moves in Pittsburgh.

Leafs success is due to Matthews going All Time Great and Nylander having a career season. Treliving's moves have been poor to average.

 

[Dekes For Days]

At the end of the day Pens are too old to withstand a cup run. Crosby and Malkin are nothing but celebrity name drops to look cool now. If they're your 1-2 and the rest of your team is old farts or meh players, you shouldn't trade for Karlsson.
The fact they're going to miss the playoffs barring an elite finish confirms all of this.
you waste too much energy defending the Pens. Focus on us.

It's unlikely that the Penguins win the cup, but Crosby and Malkin are not nothing, and you can't really go all in on a rebuild if both the owners and the core players that saved your franchise don't want to throw in the towel and move on yet. In that context, may as well go for it, and if you're going to go for it, it's probably best to do so by acquiring a good player that could be sold off to recoup the assets, if they change their direction at a later date. I am focused on us, but there was a comparison being made between Pittsburgh's move and a former Leaf move that weren't really the same.

 

[Havoc]

It's unlikely that the Penguins win the cup, but Crosby and Malkin are not nothing, and you can't really go all in on a rebuild if both the owners and the core players that saved your franchise don't want to throw in the towel and move on yet. In that context, may as well go for it, and if you're going to go for it, it's probably best to do so by acquiring a good player that could be sold off to recoup the assets, if they change their direction at a later date. I am focused on us, but there was a comparison being made between Pittsburgh's move and a former Leaf move that weren't really the same.

There were no responsibilites or pressure in San Jose. They were letting him play pond hockey at some points of the season. Karlsson's Norris and 100 points felt more like Fleury winning the Vezina. It did nothing for Fleurys trade value. Missing the playoffs and losing a 1st on Karlsson at this stage of his career is a horrible outcome. There should have been more insight.

Tavares for example works at his current age because we have 3 young superstars ahead of him. Adding Karlsson to an already aged out team doesn't inject much confidence your Cup attempt will be successful. At this point they won't even experience the early exit because they won't be in the Playoffs.

The point is, If your core players don't want to throw in the towel and your team is the oldest in the league, you need to be very strict on how you approach this. Seems more like Pens went big name hunting and hoped for the best.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

There were no responsibilites or pressure in San Jose. They were letting him play pond hockey at some points of the season. Karlsson's Norris and 100 points felt more like Fleury winning the Vezina. It did nothing for Fleurys trade value. Missing the playoffs and losing a 1st on Karlsson at this stage of his career is a horrible outcome. There should have been more insight.

Tavares for example works at his current age because we have 3 young superstars ahead of him. Adding Karlsson to an already aged out team doesn't inject much confidence your Cup attempt will be successful. At this point they won't even experience the early exit because they won't be in the Playoffs.

The point is, If your core players don't want to throw in the towel and your team is the oldest in the league, you need to be very strict on how you approach this. Seems more like Pens went big name hunting and hoped for the best.

The big name hunting was fine...but why 33 year old Karlsson who is worse than 17/18 Jake Gardiner in the d-zone.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There were no responsibilites or pressure in San Jose. They were letting him play pond hockey at some points of the season. Karlsson's Norris and 100 points felt more like Fleury winning the Vezina. It did nothing for Fleurys trade value. Missing the playoffs and losing a 1st on Karlsson at this stage of his career is a horrible outcome. There should have been more insight.

They didn't pay Norris-caliber prices though. They largely just paid a 1st (probably in the teens) and some cap dumps. And if they decide to rebuild, it's very likely they could retain and get that back and then some. So it's not so much a removal of assets so much as investing an asset for a later return.

At this point they won't even experience the early exit because they won't be in the Playoffs.

Far too early to say that. They're in a mix of 5 teams fighting for 3 spots. I'm just glad the Leafs have pulled away from that mix of teams over the past couple weeks.

 

[Havoc]

The big name hunting was fine...but why 33 year old Karlsson who is worse than 17/18 Jake Gardiner in the d-zone.

Well yeah that's what my two first paragraphs implied. There wasn't much insight with respects to the initial state of the team going into the off-season. First big fish available was brought in and the only justification given is that Crosby wants to contend. There is no justification given with respects to the actual team build. You could predict the move won't change much for Pens.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Wow this thread...

It's not exactly the same, but some of you sound like butt hurt Isles fans after Tavares left. Get over it, Dubas is gone and he's not coming back.

Or are you really going to carry this torch for 6+ years and boo him for his 1000th career point like that other classless fanbase? Move on (from Dubas or to the Pens board) and everyone, including your mental health, will be better off for it.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

There is no justification given with respects to the actual team build. You could predict the move won't change much for Pens.

This not acceptable when the cap hit is 10 mil

 

[All Mod Cons]

Leafs success is due to Matthews going All Time Great and Nylander having a career season. Treliving's moves have been poor to average.

Disagree entirely. Brad's moves show me he understands the game of hockey. Unlike Kyle who just thought hockey was played one way and looked for nothing else in a player to compliment the team.

Games are played on the ice and not on a spreadsheet or graph.

 

[Shooter2x]

First big fish available was brought in and the only justification given is that Crosby wants to contend. There is no justification given with respects to the actual team build. You could predict the move won't change much for Pens.

This is why the Klingberg hate pisses me off so much.

Yes, it was a massive fail. Nobody denies it. But at least there's the justification of how depleted we were on skill from the backend.

There was also a fail-safe in the 1 year deal, not to mention we are snug in the playoffs. We would remain contenders whether Klingberg hits or misses for us.

The pens were irresponsible in their homerun swing for Karlsson and are facing the consequences now.

 

[Donnie740]

Treliving's moves have been poor to average.

Signing Martin Jones at $875k for 1yr was a brilliant move. Without Jones, the Leafs would be out of the playoffs. Just that move alone justifies Treliving as GM.

Unlike Kyle Dumbass constantly screwing up with goaltending mistakes.
- Insisting on the incompetent Garry Sparks instead of Curtis McElhinney.
- Signing useless back ups like Mike Neuvirth and Mike Hutchinson
- Wasting a draft pick to bring in Dave The Save Rittich who played in FOUR (4) games and managed to accomplish ONE (1) victory
- Brutal overpay for Pete Mrazek that cost them a draft pick to get rid of
- Brutal overpay for Matt Murray

It’s laughable how bad Dumbass is at constructing a roster and evaluating talent.

 

[IPS]

The oldest team in the league losing a 1st rounder that becomes a near top 10 pick while missing the Playoffs.

You really can't make this stuff up lol. That's a clown show season.

He left to Pittsburgh due to lack of autonomy in Toronto but was unfortunately thrust into a situation where he had to trade for Karlsson to keep PIttsburgh competitive for playoff spots. I swear someone's put a hex on Dubas, this incredible genius is followed around by so much bad luck.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Was Treliving's offseason actually really good?

Players we didn't sign:
Ryan O'Rielly - This one hurts. However, there was nothing Tre could do. ROR didn't want to be here. Tre gets a pass
Justin Holl - How do you give him that contract and get healthy scratched.
Kerfoot - Good job letting him go. Ridiculous contract
Schenn - I'd have loved him, but it was smart to not match Nashville. Hard decision but the right one.
Accarri - Same opinion as Schenn. Love the player, but at that age and cost, you should really try and develop your own Accarri. Didn't he get 6M? Good idea not to match.
Gustavsson - Hard to argue with league minimum. Harder to argue that we need a player like this who can't play D. With how things have played out with our depth, imagine having both him and Timmins.

Trades:
Lafferty - This was a mistake on the record.

Players we did sign:
Benoit - Big hit to get this value for such a low pay. This signing has effectively outweighed the mistake with Klingberg. Klingberg we have a mulligan on with him on LTIR, and Benoit was a very well placed bet by Tre. If you give him hell for signing Klingberg, you have to in term give credit for Benny.
Klingberg - Mistake, not really hurting us that much.
Reaves - Mistake.
Bertuzzi - Great contribution in every way other than goal production. There's no world where I wish that we had not pulled the trigger with him for 1 year. We'll miss not having him next year. He is a very useful player and has given us a good 2nd line for the first time
Domi - Big Win. This is a pretty talented centre who brings offense and antics that we sorely lacked. A lot of upside for just 3M. Every time his role is elavated he plays better. We should seriously give him more icetime.
Kampf - Mediocre signing. There's value here but perhaps Keefe needs to figure out better deployment for the 4th line. Kampf and Reaves are a really stupid mix to throw out there. Wish the term or AAV was lower.
Samsonov - Was looking dicey but this is a W. It's a 1 year deal, very smart move and we're getting value here. Tre's handling of Sammy early was world class. Impressive recovery from both the player and management.
Gregor - Mediocre.
Lagesson - Impressive depth signing for cheap. A more impressive signing by Tre than Timmins, Mete, and co.
Jones - A+. This player quite literally saved the season for a month.
Matthews - W. Don't really care about circumstances that AAV is lower than anticipated
Willy - Honestly don't love the AAV but I like the player and can live with it if it means 40 goals per year.

Drafting
Cowan - Looks like a nice pick for late in the draft.

Overall - this offseason is looking pretty decent. It had felt like a B or a B- to many, and this is looking pretty strong at this stage in the season. The notable money was given to Klingberg, Bertuzzi, and Domi all of which have been important or off the books. Then we have pretty big hits for basically no money in Benoit and Jones. Tre hasn't thrown big money at mid players for term, and many moves he decided not to make look like bullets dodged.

Overall I'd say his body of work is impressive and trending very well!

 

[Donnie740]

Was Treliving's offseason actually really good?

Players we didn't sign:
Ryan O'Rielly - This one hurts. However, there was nothing Tre could do. ROR didn't want to be here. Tre gets a pass
Justin Holl - How do you give him that contract and get healthy scratched.
Kerfoot - Good job letting him go. Ridiculous contract
Schenn - I'd have loved him, but it was smart to not match Nashville. Hard decision but the right one.
Accarri - Same opinion as Schenn. Love the player, but at that age and cost, you should really try and develop your own Accarri. Didn't he get 6M? Good idea not to match.
Gustavsson - Hard to argue with league minimum. Harder to argue that we need a player like this who can't play D. With how things have played out with our depth, imagine having both him and Timmins.

Trades:
Lafferty - This was a mistake on the record.

Players we did sign:
Benoit - Big hit to get this value for such a low pay. This signing has effectively outweighed the mistake with Klingberg. Klingberg we have a mulligan on with him on LTIR, and Benoit was a very well placed bet by Tre. If you give him hell for signing Klingberg, you have to in term give credit for Benny.
Klingberg - Mistake, not really hurting us that much.
Reaves - Mistake.
Bertuzzi - Great contribution in every way other than goal production. There's no world where I wish that we had not pulled the trigger with him for 1 year. We'll miss not having him next year. He is a very useful player and has given us a good 2nd line for the first time
Domi - Big Win. This is a pretty talented centre who brings offense and antics that we sorely lacked. A lot of upside for just 3M. Every time his role is elavated he plays better. We should seriously give him more icetime.
Kampf - Mediocre signing. There's value here but perhaps Keefe needs to figure out better deployment for the 4th line. Kampf and Reaves are a really stupid mix to throw out there. Wish the term or AAV was lower.
Samsonov - Was looking dicey but this is a W. It's a 1 year deal, very smart move and we're getting value here. Tre's handling of Sammy early was world class. Impressive recovery from both the player and management.
Gregor - Mediocre.
Lagesson - Impressive depth signing for cheap. A more impressive signing by Tre than Timmins, Mete, and co.
Jones - A+. This player quite literally saved the season for a month.
Matthews - W. Don't really care about circumstances that AAV is lower than anticipated
Willy - Honestly don't love the AAV but I like the player and can live with it if it means 40 goals per year.

Drafting
Cowan - Looks like a nice pick for late in the draft.

Overall - this offseason is looking pretty decent. It had felt like a B or a B- to many, and this is looking pretty strong at this stage in the season. The notable money was given to Klingberg, Bertuzzi, and Domi all of which have been important or off the books. Then we have pretty big hits for basically no money in Benoit and Jones. Tre hasn't thrown big money at mid players for term, and many moves he decided not to make look like bullets dodged.

Overall I'd say his body of work is impressive and trending very well!

Good evaluation and overall breakdown, but how was Reaves a “mistake”? You couldn’t even elaborate on WHY it’s a mistake.

Were you expecting more scoring from Reaves? Is paying him $600k above minimum salary crippling the Leafs financially? Were you expecting more fights from him, maybe even jumping over the boards to start a few bench brawls?

Proclaiming Reaves to be a “bad signing” is a cute little narrative of many who have ZERO concept of the intangibles of a successful team.

The finesse players aren’t physically intimidated and scared anymore knowing they have Reaves waiting to defend them. And the swag he brings is palpable.

As long as Reaves is playing, I can guarantee nobody is going to jump Matthews and throw him around in a fight or KTFO Knies like in previous playoffs.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Good evaluation and overall breakdown, but how was Reaves a “mistake”? You couldn’t even elaborate on WHY it’s a mistake.

Were you expecting more scoring from Reaves? Is paying him $600k above minimum salary crippling the Leafs financially? Were you expecting more fights from him, maybe even jumping over the boards to start a few bench brawls?

Proclaiming Reaves to be a “bad signing” is a cute little narrative of many who have ZERO concept of the intangibles of a successful team.

The finesse players aren’t physically intimidated and scared anymore knowing they have Reaves waiting to defend them. And the swag he brings is palpable.

As long as Reaves is playing, I can guarantee nobody is going to jump Matthews and throw him around in a fight or KTFO Knies like in previous playoffs.

I didn't explain because I feel it's been discussed enough. I think 3 years is unusual and risky for his age, and it looked, to me anyways that this decision cost us Lafferty who is also gritty and can play a strong game.

You can tell I love the maniacs and I enjoy Reaves running guys. I would've preferred, much like we did with Accari, not to commit term and more money than Lafferty for an enforcer, not that I don't like seeing the punishment dished. I feel like you should be able to find someone in their 20s with that ability for 1 year and a cheap cap hit if you really want that.

Does that make sense?

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Took some time, but the additions are looking great. Would love to bring back Bertuzzi, Domi and Benoit long term. Especially the latter two.

Let's see what he has in store for the deadline. Wiz Kid Dubas put him in a real strong position in terms of trade chips.