Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[notDatsyuk]

You posted "the big underperformers" while excluding bigger ones and attributing Samsanov to someone else when Brad re-signed him (I still think it was the right move).

Do you really think any of those lesser players have underperformed more than the two players who are supposed to be the best?

Samsonov is now Tre's responsibility because he re-signed him? Does that also mean we give him credit for Matty now?

 

[Niagara Bill]

The Leafs are a team issue, not players.
The mix is wrong, the intensity is not there, nobody sticks up for their mates, consistency is non existent, concentration is gone (too many men penalties).
The coach must go, the GM has done nothing. He guessed at the solution and was wrong.(Reaves).
The answer to the question about why Schen and O'Reilly wanted out will point us in the right direction. For the price of 1/2, Klingberg plus Reaves, Schenn would still be here.
It was not money, it was not term. I am sure it is our room.

 

[Sypher04]

The Leafs are a team issue, not players.
The mix is wrong, the intensity is not there, nobody sticks up for their mates, consistency is non existent, concentration is gone (too many men penalties).
The coach must go, the GM has done nothing. He guessed at the solution and was wrong.(Reaves).
The answer to the question about why Schen and O'Reilly wanted out will point us in the right direction. For the price of 1/2, Klingberg plus Reaves, Schenn would still be here.
It was not money, it was not term. I am sure it is our room.

You can be sure all you want, there’s no evidence to back it up, so it’s worthless. The more likely scenario by far is Schenn, as someone who’d made sub 1M for several years, followed the term and money.

 

[notbias]

Do you really think any of those lesser players have underperformed more than the two players who are supposed to be the best?

Samsonov is now Tre's responsibility because he re-signed him? Does that also mean we give him credit for Matty now?

Yes, as Treliving re-signs players he is shaping his team... this isn't a hard concept.

He has a chance to re-sign, walk away, or trade players, if he chooses to re-sign them, he has them in his plans.

Reaves + Klingberg, are the worst players by far, not even close.

Matthews > Domi > Marner > Bert > McCabe > Kampf is probably how I'd have them for performances this year based on expectations.

So yes, I do think some of those players underperformed based on expectations, and more so than Matthews/Marner.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The Leafs are a team issue, not players.
The mix is wrong, the intensity is not there, nobody sticks up for their mates, consistency is non existent, concentration is gone (too many men penalties).
The coach must go, the GM has done nothing. He guessed at the solution and was wrong.(Reaves).
The answer to the question about why Schen and O'Reilly wanted out will point us in the right direction. For the price of 1/2, Klingberg plus Reaves, Schenn would still be here.
It was not money, it was not term. I am sure it is our room.

I think it is safe to say the Leafs will not see the 3rd round of the playoffs during Tavares' 7x11 mil UFA contract. That's quite something

 

[ACC1224]

The Leafs are a team issue, not players.
The mix is wrong, the intensity is not there, nobody sticks up for their mates, consistency is non existent, concentration is gone (too many men penalties).
The coach must go, the GM has done nothing. He guessed at the solution and was wrong.(Reaves).
The answer to the question about why Schen and O'Reilly wanted out will point us in the right direction. For the price of 1/2, Klingberg plus Reaves, Schenn would still be here.
It was not money, it was not term. I am sure it is our room.

Thinking the GM thought Reaves was the solution is a pretty whacked out theory.

 

[DarkKnight]

Thinking the GM thought Reaves was the solution is a pretty whacked out theory.

Knies was saying how awesome he is in the room, alluded to it being quiet, he brings an element. If he’s in and out, I’m fine with it. It’s a minor signing, minor money, easily sent to the minors, doesn’t mean much to team success, so why it’s become a central talking point is interesting. I didn’t even want the guy, but get over it already.

 

[Dekes For Days]

if you really think than a 6th dman from a bad team would cost a 2nd pick even if its in 2 year... wake up his value was probably close for what he was traded this season... a 4th pick

He returned a high 4th round pick as a cap dump. He would have returned at least our 3rd round pick as a deadline trade at half the cap hit.
And again, this has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

klinberg had best production at 5v5/60 played amount minneaota D on both regular season and playoff

Yeah, it's also a higher rate than anything he's done in over half a decade, because that's what tends to happen when you have an inflated OISH% in a small sample.
Doesn't change that he hasn't been good for a while.

number are not in your side

The numbers are very much on my side. Leafs had an xGF% of 53.36% in 2022, and 49.74% (which is pretty much as close to 50-50 as you can get) in 2023.

 

[ACC1224]

Knies was saying how awesome he is in the room, alluded to it being quiet, he brings an element. If he’s in and out, I’m fine with it. It’s a minor signing, minor money, easily sent to the minors, doesn’t mean much to team success, so why it’s become a central talking point is interesting. I didn’t even want the guy, but get over it already.

Yeah minor signing is the point. No one was thinking ‘we need a part time 4th liner to put us over the top’

 

[Niagara Bill]

You can be sure all you want, there’s no evidence to back it up, so it’s worthless. The more likely scenario by far is Schenn, as someone who’d made sub 1M for several years, followed the term and money.

You can guess all you want about Schenn, but the evidence is we could have have paid the same, and he walked away.
Our room has been and continues to be a problem.

Thinking the GM thought Reaves was the solution is a pretty whacked out theory.

Theory! He talked about how good he was in the ROOM, even mentioned his choice of music and togetherness.
It is not a theory, it is fact.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I've only had time for a quick read-through

Of course. Always enough time to misrepresent the statements of somebody, but no time to answer to it or read what was actually said.

May I ask if you have any direct knowledge of Shanahan's emotional state when he fired Dubas?

Shanahan's self-admitted belief days before Dubas was let go was that Dubas was doing a great job, and he wanted him to continue as GM.
"
"Evaluating Dubas’s work in 2022-23, be it his off-season moves, his management style or his trade-deadline overhaul to the supporting cast, Shanahan liked what he saw.
“I think Kyle did an excellent job,” Shanahan said. “He made some very good moves, and I thought he had prepared the team to the best of his ability as any GM can do. After the trade deadline, there’s not as much for a GM to do.” Dubas had accomplished enough in his boss's eyes at that point to merit a raise."

So yeah, letting him go was an emotional decision. There was no actual reason given, and it was a complete and abrupt 180 from the decision he had arrived at days prior based on a thorough evaluation of him and his body of work.

 

[ACC1224]

You can guess all you want about Schenn, but the evidence is we could have have paid the same, and he walked away.
Our room has been and continues to be a problem.


Theory! He talked about how good he was in the ROOM, even mentioned his choice of music and togetherness.
It is not a theory, it is fact.

If you want to believe the GM looked at the team and thought Reaves is the solution knock yourself out.
Most would think Bertuzzi, Domi, Klingberg would be thought of as the solution more so than a part time 4th liner.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You can guess all you want about Schenn, but the evidence is we could have have paid the same, and he walked away.
Our room has been and continues to be a problem.


Theory! He talked about how good he was in the ROOM, even mentioned his choice of music and togetherness.
It is not a theory, it is fact.

We definitely could have paid him the same, but there is no evidence he was offered anything close to the same.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/news/report-maple-leafs-not-close-on-new-contract-for-luke-schenn

Ryan O' Reilly didn't think the room was bad in fact he praised the organization:

"It was incredible. I couldn't have gone to a better place. The way the organization is, the Yankees of the NHL, it was an amazing time. It was such an amazing experience, being from Ontario and playing for all my friends' favorite teams, it was amazing."

"It was and is an amazing place to play,” said O’Reilly, who grew up a couple of hours west of the city. “Just putting on that jersey, you can just feel the love that comes with it, how much pride people take in that jersey. Its hockey’s team. … It was definitely not an easy decision not (to re-sign) there.”


There definitely has to be improvement to the Leafs, but you just manufactured "evidence" for your personal opinion.

 

[Menzinger]

We definitely could have paid him the same, but there is no evidence he was offered anything close to the same.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/news/report-maple-leafs-not-close-on-new-contract-for-luke-schenn

Ryan O' Reilly didn't think the room was bad in fact he praised the organization:

"It was incredible. I couldn't have gone to a better place. The way the organization is, the Yankees of the NHL, it was an amazing time. It was such an amazing experience, being from Ontario and playing for all my friends' favorite teams, it was amazing."

"It was and is an amazing place to play,” said O’Reilly, who grew up a couple of hours west of the city. “Just putting on that jersey, you can just feel the love that comes with it, how much pride people take in that jersey. Its hockey’s team. … It was definitely not an easy decision not (to re-sign) there.”


There definitely has to be improvement to the Leafs, but you just manufactured "evidence" for your personal opinion.

ROR left for nice retirement contract in a warm, low pressure US market. It's nothing more complicated than that when it comes to his decision

 

[Gabriel426]

It might be a matter of optics (playoff teams only comprise half the league and are closer to all being on the same level).

Well, I don’t see why fielding a team at the cap across the league won’t be FairPlay to all teams if all teams can have guys in the press box that don’t count against the Cap.
Even if the Leafs can add another 2 players at 10mil each, and if they want to play these two players to the current squad, 20mils need to be move to the press box.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Of course. Always enough time to misrepresent the statements of somebody, but no time to answer to it or read what was actually said.

Shanahan's self-admitted belief days before Dubas was let go was that Dubas was doing a great job, and he wanted him to continue as GM.
"
"Evaluating Dubas’s work in 2022-23, be it his off-season moves, his management style or his trade-deadline overhaul to the supporting cast, Shanahan liked what he saw.
“I think Kyle did an excellent job,” Shanahan said. “He made some very good moves, and I thought he had prepared the team to the best of his ability as any GM can do. After the trade deadline, there’s not as much for a GM to do.” Dubas had accomplished enough in his boss's eyes at that point to merit a raise."

So yeah, letting him go was an emotional decision. There was no actual reason given, and it was a complete and abrupt 180 from the decision he had arrived at days prior based on a thorough evaluation of him and his body of work.

He did say why he decided to relieve Dubas of his GM position. This was after Dubas wanted to discuss things with his family and some of the vultures on the board said that he was a beta and had to ask his wife.

Shanahan then articulated on Thursday that he received a call from Dubas’s agent, who presented him with a new financial package than previously discussed. Shanahan did not hear from Dubas in-person for the rest of the day, but later received an email from Dubas stating that he wanted to remain as the Maple Leafs GM.

“If I’m being honest, I had gotten to a different place about how I felt about the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs and what was best," Shanahan said. "As hard as it was and hard as it is to make a significant change to someone you’re close to and someone you’ve worked with for nine years, a gap had risen within the contract status. Nevertheless, the email I had received from Kyle, I just felt differently and I felt the long-term future of the Maple Leafs might have to change.”

Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan reveals why he fired GM Kyle Dubas

Shanahan said contract negotiations broke down after believing both parties had the framework for an extension in place.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

 

[BrannigansLaw]

He sucks so far but Shanahan is the one that really, really has to go. A moron with no plan other than play it safe and run it back over and over and over again.

Can’t believe a HoFer and guy that played his style of hockey can be this bad at recognizing things need to change.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Need to be more patient for me with Tre. I've heard a little talk radio and they sound like whining babies geez. Dubas went all in on his way out basically (multiple years). Big turnover. The team they will hope to have going into the playoffs (if they make it/they will) isn't set yet clearly. They are figuring it out. They will address the D when the time is right.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Of course. Always enough time to misrepresent the statements of somebody, but no time to answer to it or read what was actually said.

Shanahan's self-admitted belief days before Dubas was let go was that Dubas was doing a great job, and he wanted him to continue as GM.
"
"Evaluating Dubas’s work in 2022-23, be it his off-season moves, his management style or his trade-deadline overhaul to the supporting cast, Shanahan liked what he saw.
“I think Kyle did an excellent job,” Shanahan said. “He made some very good moves, and I thought he had prepared the team to the best of his ability as any GM can do. After the trade deadline, there’s not as much for a GM to do.” Dubas had accomplished enough in his boss's eyes at that point to merit a raise."

So yeah, letting him go was an emotional decision. There was no actual reason given, and it was a complete and abrupt 180 from the decision he had arrived at days prior based on a thorough evaluation of him and his body of work.

Shanny is a snake according to Chelios...big time backstabber and politician behind the scenes wherever he went. He got miffed because Dubas wanted to make some changes to the team that would impact Shanny's NuHockey vision of the team and threaten his Presidency along the way. I am no Dubas lover as you probably well know, but I liked that he was coming around over the years and was trying to get grittier players to help the Fab 4 who don't seem to have any at all. I personally would have let Dubas finish what he started ...instead...Shanny gave himself a lifeline by adding Tre...he now has a couple of years of Tre saying he can't fix this team overnight and away we go.

I am firmly in the "Tre got hired because he is a Yes Man" camp because that's what it looks like. Dubas tried to assert himself and out he went. Good thing for Shanny that he lives in NYC...because he won't be getting accolades after he is done here.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Need to be more patient for me with Tre. I've heard a little talk radio and they sound like whining babies geez. Dubas went all in on his way out basically (multiple years). Big turnover. The team they will hope to have going into the playoffs (if they make it/they will) isn't set yet clearly. They are figuring it out. They will address the D when the time is right.

The team we’re going to have going into the playoffs is basically staring you in the face.

How much do you think this team will change by the trade deadline? We’ll add maybe a Tanev and a bottom 6 piece or two but it’s not going to make a significant difference.

 

[Niagara Bill]

If you want to believe the GM looked at the team and thought Reaves is the solution knock yourself out.
Most would think Bertuzzi, Domi, Klingberg would be thought of as the solution more so than a part time 4th liner.

Your gm said he was part of the solution. Why sign him if he wasn't going to help that. Come on, be serious. They may have been a big part as well, never said they were not, my point was about the team make up, he tried to fix a room problem that so obvious. Schenn left when we could have paid him with term, why? He saw the room in action. O Reilly saw it in action.
This team needs a new coach to deal with this, and maybe a different gm.
Calgary had similar problems, no intensity, no team concentration, Treliving didn't get the job done. Maybe he doesn't know how,
The most too many men penalties and fewest majors. Something continues to be rotten in Demark.

 

[thusk]

He returned a high 4th round pick as a cap dump. He would have returned at least our 3rd round pick as a deadline trade at half the cap hit.
And again, this has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

Yeah, it's also a higher rate than anything he's done in over half a decade, because that's what tends to happen when you have an inflated OISH% in a small sample.
Doesn't change that he hasn't been good for a while.

The numbers are very much on my side. Leafs had an xGF% of 53.36% in 2022, and 49.74% (which is pretty much as close to 50-50 as you can get) in 2023.

yeah toronto scored like 5 goal over expected vs tampa because vasilevskiy was unable to stop a beach ball until gm 5 but go ahead

 

[ACC1224]

Shanny is a snake according to Chelios...big time backstabber and politician behind the scenes wherever he went. He got miffed because Dubas wanted to make some changes to the team that would impact Shanny's NuHockey vision of the team and threaten his Presidency along the way. I am no Dubas lover as you probably well know, but I liked that he was coming around over the years and was trying to get grittier players to help the Fab 4 who don't seem to have any at all. I personally would have let Dubas finish what he started ...instead...Shanny gave himself a lifeline by adding Tre...he now has a couple of years of Tre saying he can't fix this team overnight and away we go.

I am firmly in the "Tre got hired because he is a Yes Man" camp because that's what it looks like. Dubas tried to assert himself and out he went. Good thing for Shanny that he lives in NYC...because he won't be getting accolades after he is done here.

Didn’t Treliving quit in Calgary because he didn’t want to be a yes man?

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Shanny is a snake according to Chelios...big time backstabber and politician behind the scenes wherever he went. He got miffed because Dubas wanted to make some changes to the team that would impact Shanny's NuHockey vision of the team and threaten his Presidency along the way. I am no Dubas lover as you probably well know, but I liked that he was coming around over the years and was trying to get grittier players to help the Fab 4 who don't seem to have any at all. I personally would have let Dubas finish what he started ...instead...Shanny gave himself a lifeline by adding Tre...he now has a couple of years of Tre saying he can't fix this team overnight and away we go.

I am firmly in the "Tre got hired because he is a Yes Man" camp because that's what it looks like. Dubas tried to assert himself and out he went. Good thing for Shanny that he lives in NYC...because he won't be getting accolades after he is done here.

Shanny got miffed because Dubas was coming for his job.

Dubas wanted complete autonomy over hockey and the same pay as Shanahan. Right now Shanahan handles the hockey and the business. If MLSE has Dubas handling the hockey, why would they have a hockey guy handling the business side? Shanahan admitted that he wanted Dubas back before the weasel made his power move.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He did say why he decided to relieve Dubas of his GM position.

He said he changed his mind. He didn't give a reason. Nothing about the work had changed, so it was an emotionally-driven decision.

yeah toronto scored like 5 goal over expected vs tampa because vasilevskiy was unable to stop a beach ball until gm 5 but go ahead

What are you even talking about, and what does it have to do with anything? We didn't score 5 goals over expected in the series, and Tampa also scored more than expected. Just because we didn't run into a HOF goalie on the run of their lives for once, it doesn't invalidate what we did.