Bouchard gets the record for most assists by a defenseman in a playoff run.

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Arthur Morgan

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Is he elite yet?
maybe, maybe not... who really cares. he's getting the job done. but I mean you dont have to sound so upset. is it possible when people said he wasn't at the time he maybe hasnt earned that title yet? dont have to get so angry about it, like why not give some info in your thread? I literally dont even know how many points he has. its easy to find but I dont care to look it up, just figured a thread about it would have that but NOPE. just is it elite yet? LMAO
 

604

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Nov 1, 2011
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I like Bouchard. My point was time will tell how "elite" he is.

I think he’s smart enough to stick with McD.

Bouchard should cash in big time and it will be well earned based on his performance: 8 years x $12m seems like a reasonable ask.

Assuming the Oilers pay McD whoever he wants, Bouchard will continue to produce. Note: I agree that Bouchard fits with McD like a glove, probably better than a guy like Hughes would.
 

commie

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Jul 30, 2005
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Huh? I think McDavid is the best player in the world. Who exactly are you arguing with here?

... And who does Hughes play with that is equivalent to McDavid/Mack? He's pretty clearly the best player on that team.
Go back to some of the posts here in the last few years. There were many people stating that McDavid is not the best player in the world. Many have stated Mackinnon is better, that Matthews is better. That Barkov is a better overall player.
Hell there are its own threads on the main board that states Elias Petterson is the best player in the league.

Just how this board is, when comparing McDavid on its own, he is not some out of the planet player, but when talking about how his teammates are playing, then he is the greatest ever.
Lol
Happens with Drai discussion, happening with Bouchard.

Can’t have it both ways.
 
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sportsdynasty

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I responded to a poster who said that if you replace Bouchard with any top 15 D, and they'll produce the same number of points. Then the poster exaggerated saying that Hughes, Makar and Karlsson would produce double Bouchard's points. It's highly unlikely any top 15D in NHL has the same chemistry with the Oilers. Other D-man would not break the record of assists in the playoffs like Bouchard did.

You don't think playing actual NHL quality defencemen wouldn't be an upgrade over a guy who has proven that he isn't able to play in his own zone at an acceptable standard?
 

Szechwan

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Go back to some of the posts here in the last few years. There were many people stating that McDavid is not the best player in the world. Many have stated Mackinnon is better, that Matthews is better. That Barkov is a better overall player.
Hell there are its own threads on the main board that states Elias Petterson is the best player in the league.

Just how this board is, when comparing McDavid on its own, he is not some out of the planet player, but when talking about how his teammates are playing, then he is the greatest ever.
Lol
Happens with Drai discussion, happening with Bouchard.

Can’t have it both ways.
.. I'm literally not having it both ways. You do understand that HF isn't a hive mind right? You might have hangups about some previous posts but you don't need to tag me to discuss something that had literally nothing to do with anything I said.

McDavid is a great player. He is probably the most efficient player in the league at getting more out of his linemates. For that reason, I don't think of Bouchard as some generational defensmen, despite his records. They are a mirage imo, though that doesn't mean he isn't a good player.
 

IceManCat

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He wouldn’t. Heiskanen doesn’t have close to the elite offensive talent that Bouchard has. You know this stuff by watching hockey, instead of just relying on reputation.


Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.
 

GreeningOil

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Jun 22, 2016
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Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.
So Hintz and Robertson are garbage?
 
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Mr Positive

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If you feel the need to discount it because he gets to play McDavid, then at least admit that McDavid should get the Conn Smythe no matter who wins this series. You can't have it both ways
 
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TheNumber4

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Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.
He’s never had a PPG season. Fell short. Bouchard will be putting up PPG++ seasons for the rest of hall of fame career. Bouch doesn’t leech points, if anything it’s the other way around as McDrai benefit from his generational clapper. Dallas produces offence at a good clip too, there’s more than enough oppurtunity for Heiskanen to produce. He just doesn’t have as an elite offensive toolbox as Bouchard, this is obvious watching them play. Did you catch any of the Dallas-Oil series or are you again just talking out of your ass and basing your entire opinion on reputation.
 

OilerTitanFan

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Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.
Heiskanen doesn't have the clapper and doesn't know how to make the right plays on the PP. They call it the Bouche bomb for a reason, not the Heisk-bomb.
 

Buck Naked

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Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.

It's been one season since Heiskanen played with what was deemed the best line in hockey, and this past season it was the deepest team in hockey. When Robertson produced, Heiskanen produced. When Robertson didn't produce as much, Heiskanen didn't produce as much.

Bouchard's production obviously decreases when McDavid is not on the ice. However, McDavid's production also decreases significantly when Bouchard is not on the ice. See how this works? They're helping each other. It's not like MacKinnon/Makar where Makar can only deliver together with MacKinnon and MacKinnon's production rate goes up when Makar steps of the ice. But then again. You would never ever argue that Makar is only good because of MacKinnon, would you? Even though it's 100% obvious if you look at scoring rates while they're on and off the ice over as large sample sizes as the last two seasons. It's only Bouchard because..?
 
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NotCommitted

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I haven't watched enough games to have a relevant opinion on how much is McDavid effect and how much is just Bouchard being great. What I can say is I've been very impressed with Bouchard these playoffs, at least on the offensive end of the rink, defense is harder to judge on a small sample and without specifically focusing on it during games. I think he's good, just how good I'm not sure yet.

McDavid is a great player. He is probably the most efficient player in the league at getting more out of his linemates. For that reason, I don't think of Bouchard as some generational defensmen, despite his records. They are a mirage imo, though that doesn't mean he isn't a good player.

That's interesting because honestly my opinion of McDavid HAS been the total opposite - that his biggest weakness is being a one man show and not being able to elevate those around him to the degree you would expect from the best. Though I don't really think that anymore, nothing to take away from Hyman who I think has done a stellar job and also helped McDavid being more efficient 5v5, but no way he's a 50+ goal scorer without McDavid... but if you would've asked me two or three years ago or something, I would've told you McDavid doesn't bring quite as much value to the Oilers as his insane production would suggest because he gives up too much defensively for that and doesn't make his linemates THAT much better.

I think my opinion was fair, it seemed a bit too difficult at some point to find linemates for him "who can keep up with him" and even when some of those linemates made McDavid more effective 5v5 they'd still get all the criticism and none of the praise. They finally found a great fit in Hyman and it looks to me like McDavid also recognized that and became a better player for it. He seems to take very genuine joy in "making" an offensive star out of Hyman, which is great to see.
 

Tobias Kahun

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You don't think playing actual NHL quality defencemen wouldn't be an upgrade over a guy who has proven that he isn't able to play in his own zone at an acceptable standard?
Bouchard is better than karlsson at defense.

And judging by the Vancouver series, he’s better than Hughes also.
 

CanadienShark

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Dec 18, 2012
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Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.
Uhmmm... Jason Robertson is a name you should familiarize yourself with. Johnston too. Stankoven soon enough. Hintz. Shall I continue or have you had enough?
 

ijuka

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May 14, 2016
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Heiskanen best season was a PPG. Bouchard best season was a PPG. Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively. No one would take Bouchard who leaches his points off of McDavid and Draistl. Heiskanen on the other hand doesnt have any gamebreaking talent to play with other than an old Jamie Benn. LOL at this comparison.
"Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively" - Why am I not surprised that you use fake numbers instead of proper statistics to make your point? Is that because if you'd use actual statistics, they wouldn't fit your narrative?

Come, what's your measure of defensive ability? Let's compare the statistics.

You don't think playing actual NHL quality defencemen wouldn't be an upgrade over a guy who has proven that he isn't able to play in his own zone at an acceptable standard?
Of course, but what does this have to do with Bouchard?
 

Arthur Morgan

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If you feel the need to discount it because he gets to play McDavid, then at least admit that McDavid should get the Conn Smythe no matter who wins this series. You can't have it both ways
if they lose I dont feel that McDavid deserves it. I feel it should go to the player who was the MVP for their team winning the cup. even if a player had 100 points but lost I dont feel they should be MVP
 

CanadienShark

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Dec 18, 2012
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Which one of those players produces like McDavid or Draistl? Shall I continue ……
What teams do aside from literally only Edmonton? Robertson put up well over 100 points last season and Heiskanen plays with one of the deepest forward groups in the entire league. So yes, please go ahead and try.
 

IceManCat

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What teams do aside from literally only Edmonton? Robertson put up well over 100 points last season and Heiskanen plays with one of the deepest forward groups in the entire league. So yes, please go ahead and try.


Sure, the Stars are among the best offensive teams in the league or are in the top 5. Their scoring is spread out amongst their three lines. The Oilers scoring is concentrated in the top two lines. Its more often the case that Bouchard is with McDavid whereas with Heiskanen he is paired more among the three lines and in all situations instead of just one/two. Let's take a look at playing style, The Dallas Stars play far more of a defensive game than the Oilers who prefer to play up and down. This too will lead to a decrease in points vs a run and gun, rush style. Heiskanen would produce more playing mostly with the top two lines and in a run and gun style if given the opportunity.
 

CanadienShark

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Sure, the Stars are among the best offensive teams in the league or are in the top 5. Their scoring is spread out amongst their three lines. The Oilers scoring is concentrated in the top two lines. Its more often the case that Bouchard is with McDavid whereas with Heiskanen he is paired more among the three lines and in all situations instead of just one/two. Let's take a look at playing style, The Dallas Stars play far more of a defensive game than the Oilers who prefer to play up and down. This too will lead to a decrease in points vs a run and gun, rush style. Heiskanen would produce more playing mostly with the top two lines and in a run and gun style if given the opportunity.
You said Dallas has no game breaking talent, which is just plain false. Now you're moving the goalposts to style of play. Stay on topic.
 
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IceManCat

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Jul 13, 2006
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"Heiskanen is infinitely better defensively" - Why am I not surprised that you use fake numbers instead of proper statistics to make your point? Is that because if you'd use actual statistics, they wouldn't fit your narrative?

Come, what's your measure of defensive ability? Let's compare the statistics.


Sure no problem...
















All within the last year ^^^
 
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