GDT: BorKings vs. The Team Formerly Known as the Phoenix Coyotes

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kings have only a few players over 30. Age is not an issue.

Carter, Gaborik, Quick, Brown, Martinez, Lewis are more than a few.

More are approaching their 30s as well.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Carter, Gaborik, Quick, Brown, Martinez, Lewis are more than a few.

More are approaching their 30s as well.

So what?

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

So what?

Maybe this?

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Or this?

https://hockey-graphs.com/2014/03/21/how-well-do-goalies-age-a-look-at-a-goalie-aging-curve/

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Or this?

http://www.tsn.ca/pinning-down-a-player-s-prime-performance-years-1.388514

 

[KingPuckChoo]

yeah but how about this graph:

 

[KingTrouty]

Well, ****, Chaz, you mean players decrease in effiency as they age? Whouldathunkit?

Or do you have a deeper point that isn't so blatantly obvious before you posted those graphs? Saying "this" "or this" doesn't do much other than sound condescending.

As far as the graph representing goalies, take a critical eye at it, around half are at or around 0 drop off. The others skew the curve. And it only includes 12 goalies, so it's a hell of a small sample size. Do we need a new goalie, now? Ah, ****, Chaz thinks we need a new goalie, now!

void: im nothing but a disrespectful piece of sh*t here. i was horrible

 

[KingTrouty]

yeah but how about this graph:

Best one of the lot!

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

So what?

Well, ****, Chaz, you mean players decrease in effiency as they age? Whouldathunkit?

A point was made that the Kings are one of the oldest teams. The response to the Kings being an old team with an aging core was "So what?" So what? Well, their core players are mostly statistically past their primes.

Or do you have a deeper point that isn't so blatantly obvious before you posted those graphs? Saying "this" "or this" doesn't do much other than sound condescending.

As far as the graph representing goalies, take a critical eye at it, around half are at or around 0 drop off. The others skew the curve. And it only includes 12 goalies, so it's a hell of a small sample size. Do we need a new goalie, now? Ah, ****, Chaz thinks we need a new goalie, now!

Yes, that is exactly what I said. Bravo.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

No clue where to ask this so sorry if this is the wrong place.

Does anyone know where to get the Dodgers-Kings jerseys? Those things are sick. I found a site that sells them from China but not sure if it's legit. The ones I see at Staples look really well made.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Maybe this?

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

Or this?

https://hockey-graphs.com/2014/03/21/how-well-do-goalies-age-a-look-at-a-goalie-aging-curve/

A point was made that the Kings are one of the oldest teams. The response to the Kings being an old team with an aging core was "So what?" So what? Well, their core players are mostly statistically past their primes.



Yes, that is exactly what I said. Bravo.

And yet you conveniently ignore the fact that 2 of the best teams in the league right now play with an older roster than the Kings. One of the other best teams in the league is averaging the same as the Kings.

So explain to me why they aren't on the bubble due to being so goddamn old and the Kings are.

 

[KingTrouty]

Yes, that is exactly what I said. Bravo.

You're a swell feller, Chaz, bravo to you for all that hard work you did.

I'm sure we all feel a little more enlightened now.

Your goalie graph, while representing a greater truth, is trash.

edit: trash post. i was such an ass

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And yet you conveniently ignore the fact that 2 of the best teams in the league right now play with an older roster than the Kings. One of the other best teams in the league is averaging the same as the Kings.

So explain to me why they aren't on the bubble due to being so goddamn old and the Kings are.

Their older players are performing well. Look at Gaborik compared to Hossa or Marleau or Thornton.

 

[kingsfan28]

And yet you conveniently ignore the fact that 2 of the best teams in the league right now play with an older roster than the Kings. One of the other best teams in the league is averaging the same as the Kings.

So explain to me why they aren't on the bubble due to being so goddamn old and the Kings are.

They score goals?

 

[BigKing]

Well, ****, Chaz, you mean players decrease in effiency as they age? Whouldathunkit?

Or do you have a deeper point that isn't so blatantly obvious before you posted those graphs? Saying "this" "or this" doesn't do much other than sound condescending.

As far as the graph representing goalies, take a critical eye at it, around half are at or around 0 drop off. The others skew the curve. And it only includes 12 goalies, so it's a hell of a small sample size. Do we need a new goalie, now? Ah, ****, Chaz thinks we need a new goalie, now!

The response to the list of players over 30 that led to Chazz's post was smug to begin with, but not surprising since said poster claims to be smug so no big deal.

Chazz just responded in kind. He's not wrong either.

If anyone wants to believe that the core of this team ******** away three seasons while still in their primes isn't a big deal, then good for you. Ignorance is bliss.

Most players don't get better as they get older. That's a pretty well known fact.

The 2012 team had four players 30 or over: Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Gagne. Gagne was useless so it's really three guys.

2014 team had six: Williams, Mitchell, Gaborik, Greene, Regher, Stoll.

Scuderi was toast within two seasons. Gagne already was toast.

Gaborik was 31. One good season the next year and meh ever since. Stoll was a shell starting the very next season. Greene has been done for awhile now too.

This doesn't mean everyone falls apart. Carter is crushing it this season; however, time usually wins.

And, no, the Kings don't need to get a new goalie. It is worrisome though that he is getting older due to how athletic of a goalie he is. Hopefully he is a freak and can be an exception to the rule.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

And yet you conveniently ignore the fact that 2 of the best teams in the league right now play with an older roster than the Kings. One of the other best teams in the league is averaging the same as the Kings.

So explain to me why they aren't on the bubble due to being so goddamn old and the Kings are.

Because years' worth of data tells a more stable story than two teams in an isolated season.

https://select-statistics.co.uk/blog/importance-effect-sample-size/

 

[KingTrouty]

The response to the list of players over 30 that led to Chazz's post was smug to begin with, but not surprising since said poster claims to be smug so no big deal.

Chazz just responded in kind. He's not wrong either.

If anyone wants to believe that the core of this team ******** away three seasons while still in their primes isn't a big deal, then good for you. Ignorance is bliss.

Most players don't get better as they get older. That's a pretty well known fact.

The 2012 team had four players 30 or over: Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Gagne. Gagne was useless so it's really three guys.

2014 team had six: Williams, Mitchell, Gaborik, Greene, Regher, Stoll.

Scuderi was toast within two seasons. Gagne already was toast.

Gaborik was 31. One good season the next year and meh ever since. Stoll was a shell starting the very next season. Greene has been done for awhile now too.

This doesn't mean everyone falls apart. Carter is crushing it this season; however, time usually wins.

And, no, the Kings don't need to get a new goalie. It is worrisome though that he is getting older due to how athletic of a goalie he is. Hopefully he is a freak and can be an exception to the rule.

BK, I completely agree (minus the bits about our friend Chaz, I was just bored and decided to engage him; I'm sure he couldn't care less). We have missed on three seasons of prime playing age of arguably 4 players at the top of their positions (Kopi, Carts, Drew, Quick), and it is confounding. A definite big deal, brother.

Gabby is probably gonna haunt us in ways the Brown never will. Without Gabby's offensive prowess, he's worthless. I hope he continues (well, begins again) to be productive in an age that sports medicine (and trips in the offseason to Europe for HgH) has never been more cutting edge... but physiology trumps it all, usually.

I'm not happy with these last three seasons. I just want to see if we can pull ourselves out of this rut without gutting the whole damn outfit. We do have some incredible youngsters on the roster, and some promising youth in the pipelines. We have our picks again. Make LA Kings Hockey Great Again!

edit: this is not me. this is a dick head, pos earlier version of me... so embarrassing that i was ever like this. nasty. no wonder everyone hates me. everyone saw me like this. i hate me watching this. f*** at least if this is ever seen again, this edit is here.

 

[HookKing]

So what?

Apparently late twenties is washed up in the NHL. People on here actually think Doughty should be traded because he's getting too old. Imagine Detroit trading Lidstrom when he was 27. Still years away from his first Norris. Someone needs to tell Burns he can't possibly be playing his best hockey at his advanced age. Or, the year Malkin is having. Carter, Pavelski, Crosby all done.

Yeah, the team is aging but the mean is relatively high because of few players in their early 20's -- pretty normal for a win now group. The whole have to rebuild thing here is flat out silly.

 

[kingsholygrail]

The average age of teams is within 3 years of each other. There is no significant variance that means anything for your team's average age. Teams are performing at all levels of play throughout the average. That's why it's not a significant number. No **** players tend to start dropping off in their 30s, but the Kings aren't even at that point.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Because years' worth of data tells a more stable story than two teams in an isolated season.

https://select-statistics.co.uk/blog/importance-effect-sample-size/

See, I find the charts and this paper on The Importance and Effect of Sample Size very interesting. Thanks for posting those, Chazz. Stoll was a gym rat and took yoga for flexibility, yet he still dropped off far more quickly than we foresaw. If there is indeed a sort of timer in athlete's bodies, and all the athletes work out and eat healthy foods, what makes the positive outliers successful in prolonging the quality of their play?

 

[Kingspiracy]

See, I find the charts and this paper on The Importance and Effect of Sample Size very interesting. Thanks for posting those, Chazz. Stoll was a gym rat and took yoga for flexibility, yet he still dropped off far more quickly than we foresaw. If there is indeed a sort of timer in athlete's bodies, and all the athletes work out and eat healthy foods, what makes the positive outliers successful in prolonging the quality of their play?

Style of play for one.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Style of play for one.

Yep, Stoll, Richards and Brown all hit the wall once they hit 30. Hell, Gaborik is getting worse. Carter, who doesn't play an abrasive style, has held up. Gaborik isn't physical but he's had so many injuries throughout his career, he wasn't going to age well.

Not sure what's in store for Kopitar. Some people are making excuses about his wrist, but how is that making him look like he's skating with a stick shoved far up his ass? His skating, which was one of his strengths, has been extremely weak.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Style of play for one.

Yeah I'm sure you guys have seen me say this but I liken it to NFL running backs; lots of those guys fade QUICKLY at 29-30 and it's not because they don't know how to work out all of a sudden.

 

[KingsFan7824]

See, I find the charts and this paper on The Importance and Effect of Sample Size very interesting. Thanks for posting those, Chazz. Stoll was a gym rat and took yoga for flexibility, yet he still dropped off far more quickly than we foresaw. If there is indeed a sort of timer in athlete's bodies, and all the athletes work out and eat healthy foods, what makes the positive outliers successful in prolonging the quality of their play?

Genetic luck? Subjective motivation? Other 45 year old's could work out as much as Jagr, but not be as good at 45 as he is.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yep, Stoll, Richards and Brown all hit the wall once they hit 30. Hell, Gaborik is getting worse. Carter, who doesn't play an abrasive style, has held up. Gaborik isn't physical but he's had so many injuries throughout his career, he wasn't going to age well.

Not sure what's in store for Kopitar. Some people are making excuses about his wrist, but how is that making him look like he's skating with a stick shoved far up his ass? His skating, which was one of his strengths, has been extremely weak.

Because his skating and frankly play was fine before the injury, he just wasn't producing. He got hurt, came back, and was visibly playing with one hand on his stick and a giant ****ing brace on his arm like RoboTech. I'm not sure at this point if it's confidence, another injury, or he just fell apart entirely, but it wasn't till the back third of the season that his whole game started coming apart.