Rumor: Bo Horvat All Purpose Thread (Part 1)

[Dr Amazing]

Vancouver and Columbus trying to fleece each other another random team will get Horvat for basically nothing.

 

[Peter Griffin]

We know he's not a specialist, but he's at least competent, which is more than can be said for his Pittsburgh-raised teammate.

EDIT: Also worth noting for the record: attempting to suggest that Horvat and Miller are comparable defensively doesn't make us go "oh, well, gee golly gosh, I guess we should be asking about Miller instead then, a-hyuck." The response instead becomes "oh, okay, guess that means no deals for any Canucks then, seeya."

It’s just interesting to see how underrated Miller has become and how Horvat continues to be overrated. It’ll be interesting to see what team overpays significantly for Horvat. Hopefully for your sake it won’t be Columbus!

 

[Luck 6]

You're kind of undermining your own point. We already have Gaudreau and Laine. That niche is filled.

* * *​

A higher-scoring version of Jack Roslovic does not address any of the issues we acutally have here.

I could not possibly disagree more. Gaudreau is established as a franchise star and has a playing style that ages well. Miller has a couple hot years in Vancouver - only Vancouver - and does not look to be aging well from what I've seen. Plus Gaudreau actually consistently outscores his on-ice opponents. (Also, you got the terms mixed up.)

Alright, well you certainly know the CBJ better than I do, so I concede to your opinion on any matters related to that. My logic was, if they’re going all in now with Gaudreau, why not get him a quality 1C to play with?

I will not concede to your opinions on Miller, because you’re mislabelling him. Over the past 4 years Gaudreau has scored 236 points in 224 games, but has only been at or above PPG in a single season. Miller has scored 234 points in 222 games, but has been far more consistent season to season without highs and lows. And In watching both players a lot over the past 4 years, I don’t see how you could say Miller’s style won’t age well, and Gaudreau’s will… It makes me think you haven’t seen much of either of these players…

 

[Viqsi]

Alright, well you certainly know the CBJ better than I do, so I concede to your opinion on any matters related to that. My logic was, if they’re going all in now with Gaudreau, why not get him a quality 1C to play with?

The bolded is the issue; Gaudreau was signed as a long-term move, not an immediate-only move. I can see how one might get that impression tho.

I will not concede to your opinions on Miller, because you’re mislabelling him. Over the past 4 years Gaudreau has scored 236 points in 224 games, but has only been at or above PPG in a single season. Miller has scored 234 points in 222 games, but has been far more consistent season to season without highs and lows. And In watching both players a lot over the past 4 years, I don’t see how you could say Miller’s style won’t age well, and Gaudreau’s will… It makes me think you haven’t seen much of either of these players…

I know Miller best from his days in Tampa Bay. I am not convinced that anything he did in Vancouver will magically translate elsewhere.

Regardless, it's a moot point. The price was too high back then, and the contract cannot be accommodated now. Unless Vancouver is willing to do egregious things like retain large amounts of Miller's salary, he's not going to be a Blue Jacket and there's not much point talking about him in this context.

 

[Luck 6]

The Vancouver leaks are exhausting and seemingly intentional.

One positive thing I can say about our management, there really aren’t any leaks right now. They’re as tight of a group as I have ever seen, which is why I believe all of this is media made up bullshit. The only exception would be if it were leaked by Horvat’s camp.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Columbus 1st and Nyquist for JT Miller

 

[Viqsi]

Columbus 1st

No.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Columbus 1st and Nyquist for JT Miller

Don’t imagine Columbus is trading this years first whatsoever

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Columbus 1st and Nyquist for JT Miller

I think it's been made pretty clear, given where the Jackets are in the standings, they ain't giving up a 1st this year, especially for a player in Miller that they don't really need, even if they can get rid of Nyquist.

 

[dman34]

Miller isn’t a winger. He CAN play wing, but even when he does he usually takes the face off as he is strong on the draw. Miller played C all of last season, and the majority of this season, as that is where he has his most success. If anyone is acquiring him I think they’d be doing so as a center.

The Canucks should be looking to deal Miller to the Islanders before his new contract and NMC kicks in in July. Isles are pretty set at C and could play him on the wing. They really need another game breaking winger/ scorer to take the next step.

 

[BB88]

I would say that most players traded in their final year re-sign with their new teams. It's super common. As for whether or not they "should" be doing it......who knows? But Friedman thinks there is serious interest and he's no quack.

Columbus just isn’t a playoff team trading for Horvat in this scenario.
They are with Vancouver at the bottom of the standings and I doubt Horvat knows Columbus prospect pool as well as we

I`d expect Vancouver giving promission for Kekäläinen to talk to Horvat about an extension to get the price up? If not an extension can be agreed upon, there is no way Columbus would trade for Horvat. Its not like they seem playoff-bound with Werenski out for the year and Laine injured every second game he plays.

I’m just simply asking/ wondering what are the real odds Horvat would have an rebuilding team at the top of his wish list currently

I personnally don’t think the odds are that high given Horvats history with Vancouver and how early Columbus is in their rebuild phase

 

[AHLdepth]

The bolded is the issue; Gaudreau was signed as a long-term move, not an immediate-only move. I can see how one might get that impression tho.


I know Miller best from his days in Tampa Bay. I am not convinced that anything he did in Vancouver will magically translate elsewhere.

Regardless, it's a moot point. The price was too high back then, and the contract cannot be accommodated now. Unless Vancouver is willing to do egregious things like retain large amounts of Miller's salary, he's not going to be a Blue Jacket and there's not much point talking about him in this context.

I mean look I'm not trying to sell you Miller, and that's fine if you don't want him totally understood. But to say that you know him best from years ago, and then baselessly say that the success he has shown over the last 3+ seasons is not something that would translate is a bit much no? You know what magically made him a success in Vancouver as opposed to TB or NYR? Ice time, we simply gave him more ice time and he used it to produce.

And I'm certainly not trying to sell you on the idea he's a defensive wizard, because I know he isn't, but this idea he's bad defensively because he's prone to occasional glaring gaffes has gone a bit too far in my mind. Not that it's worth a lot once you're down that far in voting, but he got more Selke votes than any Blue Jacket.

Again this is neither the time nor place so I'll show myself out of the Miller talk now!

Especially because I am one of the Vancouver fans who look at the likes of Ceulmans/Marchenko/Del Bel Belluz and think there's definitely a trade to be done for Horvat that doesn't include 2023 1st

 

[Viqsi]

Again this is neither the time nor place so I'll show myself out of the Miller talk now!

Fair enough, but I do want to clarify at least one thing:

I mean look I'm not trying to sell you Miller, and that's fine if you don't want him totally understood. But to say that you know him best from years ago, and then baselessly say that the success he has shown over the last 3+ seasons is not something that would translate is a bit much no? You know what magically made him a success in Vancouver as opposed to TB or NYR? Ice time, we simply gave him more ice time and he used it to produce.

What I said w/r/t performance in non-Vancouver markets was that I'm not convinced. I was trying to make it clear that that, at least, is my own personal evaluation, not something I can point to with numbers. I hope that was clear.

 

[Love]

Funny how the narrative is “Gaudreau is a consistent scorer but Miller isn’t” when JG is the one who seems to routinely bounce between being a 60 point winger and a 100 point winger depending on the season.

Miller’s production on the other hand has been very consistent for 4 seasons now.

 

[SI]

Joining the party to this thread late -

If a deal between these two teams are for Horvat - could Cuelemans and Peeke work as base line. How much more would need to be added on either side to make a move like this work?

My assumption would be that Horvat would resign long term.

Imagine - Jiricek, ‘23 1st, Johnson, Sillinger are not involved in any of the deals.

Ideal trade return for Canucks would be
Peeke
Gavrikov (resigned)
Cuelemans
For
Horvat (resigned)
+ (?)

What would that plus have to be?

 

[LemonSauceD]

Joining the party to this thread late -

If a deal between these two teams are for Horvat - could Cuelemans and Peeke work as base line. How much more would need to be added on either side to make a move like this work?

My assumption would be that Horvat would resign long term.

Imagine - Jiricek, ‘23 1st, Johnson, Sillinger are not involved in any of the deals.

Ideal trade return for Canucks would be
Peeke
Gavrikov (resigned)
Cuelemans
For
Horvat (resigned)
+ (?)

What would that plus have to be?

Peeke wouldn’t be someone we’d target considering we already have a similar defenseman in Poolman albeit injured.

I don’t think that package benefits us any more than a trade with Columbus does as a whole.

If Jiricek, Johnson, Sillinger isn’t coming back, which they aren’t, there’s no one else I’d consider wanting to take back, I’d rather just keep Horvat.

 

[BB88]

Joining the party to this thread late -

If a deal between these two teams are for Horvat - could Cuelemans and Peeke work as base line. How much more would need to be added on either side to make a move like this work?

My assumption would be that Horvat would resign long term.

Imagine - Jiricek, ‘23 1st, Johnson, Sillinger are not involved in any of the deals.

Ideal trade return for Canucks would be
Peeke
Gavrikov (resigned)
Cuelemans
For
Horvat (resigned)
+ (?)

What would that plus have to be?

I’d just use Gavrikov on a different trade to land a 1st

 

[Youngguns1380]

Joining the party to this thread late -

If a deal between these two teams are for Horvat - could Cuelemans and Peeke work as base line. How much more would need to be added on either side to make a move like this work?

My assumption would be that Horvat would resign long term.

Imagine - Jiricek, ‘23 1st, Johnson, Sillinger are not involved in any of the deals.

Ideal trade return for Canucks would be
Peeke
Gavrikov (resigned)
Cuelemans
For
Horvat (resigned)
+ (?)

What would that plus have to be?

We are not trading away our starting LD and RD and a RD prospect. C’mon let’s come back down to earth.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

The Vancouver leaks are exhausting and seemingly intentional.

It’s not coming from management I promise you.

 

[nergish]

Horvat (re-signed)
Myers (50% retained)
Podkolzin

for

Johnson
Ceulemans
Gavrikov
Voracek

 

[SI]

I’d just use Gavrikov on a different trade to land a 1st

That’s fair.
Not sure why jarmo doesn’t sign long term - he seems like a core piece.

So, Peeke and Cuelemans + 2024 1st?
For Horvat (resigned) maybe a 2024 3rd ?

Does that seem fair for both sides?

Peeke wouldn’t be someone we’d target considering we already have a similar defenseman in Poolman albeit injured.

I don’t think that package benefits us any more than a trade with Columbus does as a whole.

If Jiricek, Johnson, Sillinger isn’t coming back, which they aren’t, there’s no one else I’d consider wanting to take back, I’d rather just keep Horvat.

Peeke and Poolman are not the same.

Not sure if Columbus moves any of those 3 pieces even for Horvat.

Van might need to take a hit here for someone like Peeke who can play with Quinn - have someone like Cuelemans who will be ready in a season and maybe a pick in 2024

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Peeke wouldn’t be someone we’d target considering we already have a similar defenseman in Poolman albeit injured.

I don’t think that package benefits us any more than a trade with Columbus does as a whole.

If Jiricek, Johnson, Sillinger isn’t coming back, which they aren’t, there’s no one else I’d consider wanting to take back, I’d rather just keep Horvat.

Yah, you really don't speak for all of us on that one, they are not the same, (even just looking at age), where you got that they are I have no idea.

 

[Sunan]

I didn't think Miller was going anywhere, same with Horvat, he re-signs with Vancouver. 50-50 chance I am correct.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Horvat (re-signed)
Myers (50% retained)
Podkolzin

for

Johnson
Ceulemans
Gavrikov
Voracek

Vancouver isn’t getting Johnson

 

[BB88]

Horvat (re-signed)
Myers (50% retained)
Podkolzin

for

Johnson
Ceulemans
Gavrikov
Voracek

Are these jokes?
Is Horvat this years version of Miller in trade proposals?


These are just insane proposals for Horvat

That’s fair.
Not sure why jarmo doesn’t sign long term - he seems like a core piece.

So, Peeke and Cuelemans + 2024 1st?
For Horvat (resigned) maybe a 2024 3rd ?

Does that seem fair for both sides?


Peeke and Poolman are not the same.

Not sure if Columbus moves any of those 3 pieces even for Horvat.

Van might need to take a hit here for someone like Peeke who can play with Quinn - have someone like Cuelemans who will be ready in a season and maybe a pick in 2024

That’s just if he doesn’t get him signed then I’d rather pick an extra 1st for him