Captain Creampuff
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Since we're throwing out what-if's. What if Lehtera comes over in that time and works with the team and performs well.
Blues Trade Proposals Part 4
- Thread starter EastonBlues22
- Start date
Since we're throwing out what-if's. What if Lehtera comes over in that time and works with the team and performs well.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Exactly. There are plenty of moving pieces that need to be settled before they trade for Stastny. A whole bunch of significant RFA contracts. Lehtera's situation. A whole dire situation (much more dire) at LHD. Other centers who might be available next deadline and for how much.
This whole years-long obsession is about him being from St. Louis, period. I think if fans pretend he's from somewhere in Ontario the urge to overpay for Stastny which has been in threads like these for years and years and years would dry up significantly.
If we were to trade for Stastny, we'd know what he'd be looking for on his next deal before we gave up anything for him and he'd be signing his extension this summer. If he wasn't willing to do that, we wouldn't be giving up assets for him. Basically like the Jordan Staal situation last year.
My first priority would be a defenseman. Not a Stastny fan...I would have to acquire him for less than his true value or I would look elsewhere. I wouldn't trade Petro, Shatty, Berglund, Steen, Backes or Stewart, unless it was an extreme overpayment. I would expect equivalent or better value and cap friendly for a Perron, or Oshie. I think they just need to use Schwartz and Cole, prospects and picks to acquire the top 4 LHD. I'm not opposed to picking up a guy like Mark Fraser or Clayton Stoner either as a tougher 5 or 6 guy to log some of the time alongside Petro and Shatty. I think they could be had for 2nd or 3rd.
I would basically have Schwartz as close to untouchable at the moment. It is going to take him a while to find a game that gets the most out of his size and skillset, subtle positions and plays. It won't happen overnight, but until it does we aren't going to get anything close to his value in trade.
I think we can and may want to trade him now while he has value (not considered a suspect due to his size, as he will have to put points up) as a guy like Jaskin is probably better suited for our division.
I get the impression that he and Cole are much more highly thought of within the organisation than by the fanbase. I'd be shocked to see Schwartz moved, I could see Cole being moved for an upgrade on LHD but I think we'd be looking to move other assets first.
Since our financials have been such a talking point over the past couple of days... what are we expecting our RFA's/UFA's to get? Being optimistic...
Pietrangelo - 8 years @ $6.25m
Shattenkirk - 8 years @ $4.75m
Berglund - 4 years @ $3,812,500 (Perron deal)
Stewart - 4 years @ $3,812,500 (Perron deal)
D'Agostini - Trade
Cole - 2 years @ $1.5m
Russell - 2 years @ $1.3m
Allen - 2 years @ $1.25m
McDonald - Released
Langenbrunner - Released
Nichol - Maybe kept around for some C depth, but not an everyday player? Another year @ $650k
Redden - Released
Cracknell - Done enough to earn a year at $550k 1 way?
Porter - Same as above?
Schwartz - Backes - Oshie
Perron - Berglund - Stewart
Steen - ????? - Tarasenko
Cracknell/Porter - Sobotka - Reaves
Cracknell/Porter & Nichol
????? - Pietrangelo
Jax/Cole - Shattenkirk
Jax/Cole - Polák
Russell
Halák
Allen
Payroll: $54,891,667 (+$1.25m in bonuses)/assuming all new signings are paid their caphit each year
I personally believe schwartz is going to be a dominant force, and we should keep him based on potential. Wouldn't like to look back on any deal down the road and think we got screwed in the long run.
I like how he plays. Nothing against him or his talent level. I've just seen so many guys like him over the years that are smallish. Some pan out big time (Cliff Ronning). If he has a high prospect value now, then I would be very tempted to turn him into a need at this point. If you can turn him into a solid future #4 LHD like a Simon DePres, then I think you do it.
Is the trade deadline at the 34 game mark? There's hardly and wiggle room or time for players to mesh if they do make a major deadline deal. I hope if there is a trade it's sooner than later. I can see a deal made and the team can't recover.
JustOneB4IDie
Duel Cancer Survivor
JustOneB4IDie
Duel Cancer Survivor
Add Chorney to the list of former Oiler Defenseman along with Woywitka already Blues property so please pass on Whitney Armstrong
Not a surprise but Pierre Lebrun was on 590 AM this morning and said his sources have told him army is looking for a top 4 LHD.
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
I think he almost certainly will make a trade at the deadline for a LHD. I'm just not sure whether it will be a long-term player, or someone that is more of a rental (thus curious as to whether it costs us in roster assets or high profile prospects vs something like just a pick).
Captain Creampuff
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Can you please explain to me how a left handed defensemen is more important than a #1C. This is the same defensive squad from last year minus Coliacovo and Huskins and replaced as what you guys call the better defensemen in Cole.
The same squad who put one of the best defensive seasons in NHL history. Some if you completely overrate our players or just have way too much emotional attachment. I stated earlier that it is not because Stastny is from St. Louis. It is because he would be our best offensive player on our team. I'm sick of having to repeat myself on points I've already brought up before. And the fact that you think Oshie is better than Stastny is absolutely ridiculous. You sound like a typical Blues fan on the street with that kind of talk. You guys are too attached to our players and scared of big contracts. And until our owner will start to play ball this team will just stay the same just adding terrible washed up veteren defensemen every year.
As much as you guys want this team to be "Moneyball" we got to start looking for true upgrades instead of these signings of old guys who literally have brought nothing to the team, not even leadership, they just walk out on the team when they are told they are too slow and aren't on the PP anymore. You can be a budget team but we aren't even a budget team, we are just a poor as **** team who is afraid to spend big money.
This team does not have the goaltending or consistency needed to win a cup.
You can't start by arguing that a #1C is more important than a LHD because of our defensive record last season and then finish by saying that they team doesn't have to goaltending to go and win. Either last season defensive record is now irrelevant or it isn't.
As for money, we spend $55m on our team last season. That is going to go up as long as the team performs. We'll see how afraid we are to spend money by the deals we give Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk in the summer.
Captain Creampuff
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What does goaltending have to with defensive stats? The goalies weren't the ones blocking the shots or clearing the crease or winning board battles. If you think the Blues have the goaltending to win a cup, Bro I hav got sum bad newz.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Why do I think an LHD is more important than Stastny, who is NOT a #1 center btw? (He's a badly overpaid #2C.) Maybe because I've consistently maintained a top-pairing LHD is the team's #1 need for over 24 straight months now? Because it is? Because it's been obvious for that entire time that it is? Are you looking at the scoring production from this offense? It's more than enough to compete if the defense is elite. One more top pairing player and you have three very strong defensemen to whom you can rely on all-situation minutes. Right now you have Pietrangelo and, increasingly, Shattenkirk, but we just experienced an exact lesson in the difference between the playoffs and regular season. You DO realize there's a major difference between these two seasons, right? We are talking about building a playoff juggernaut and FAR AND AWAY the need to do this is a top LHD over a top center, it's not even close.
As for Oshie vs. Stastny, start a poll. Stastny has the better offensive high end potential but for going on three years now he's in Oshie's production ballpark and Oshie dwarfs him in other facets of the game, which makes it a fairly easy choice. It's frankly more "ridiculous" that you don't see it.
Captain Creampuff
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Also what's the obsession with Giordono? Why would we trade a young left handed defensemen and blue chip prospect for a guy who is 29 years old, has played in the 2nd pairing behind JBo and hasn't been to the playoffs once. And has a 4mil a year contract? Cole+ is already overpayment for Gio. 2nd+3rd is the most I would give for him.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Rattie is not a blue chip prospect. He's a very good prospect. Blue chip means can't miss. Rattie can miss. He hopefully won't, but he's no lock. A very good prospect being the difference between a developing hopeful second-pair defenseman and a guy who can clearly handle top minutes and is on a solid contract (no UFA bid war) in Giordano? Um, yes. It's pretty straightforward that's the value.
I don't agree on Giordano, but I agree about a #2 to #4 LHD being the priority.
Captain Creampuff
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Stastny has been stick handling
Better puck control
Better vision
Better shot
Better skating
The only thig Oshie is better at is hitting and balance.
TJ Oshie is the most overrated player in St. Louis and it is insane. And I even own an Oshie jersey but c'mon this is the worse than hen you said Cole was ready to be Pietrangelos partner and now you are wanting to trade him off for an overrated and overpaid player who hasn't seen the playoffs at 29 years old.
Better puck control
Better vision
Better shot
Better skating
The only thig Oshie is better at is hitting and balance.
TJ Oshie is the most overrated player in St. Louis and it is insane. And I even own an Oshie jersey but c'mon this is the worse than hen you said Cole was ready to be Pietrangelos partner and now you are wanting to trade him off for an overrated and overpaid player who hasn't seen the playoffs at 29 years old.
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PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Paul Stastny is an overpaid #2C. You want him to be a #1C who will flourish at a PPG rate and then sign a friendly contract. I get that you want this, and I get that you not being able to change this is making you lash out angrily right now.
Make the poll if you're so confident. Oshie is >>>> Stastny defensively. Take a peek at advanced statistics and it's clear Oshie and Backes were nearly identical last year in Selke-caliber defense. Oshie plays the most minutes of any forward on the Blues. There's a reason for that. And no matter how angry it makes you, Stastny has declined. His effort has been questioned, opposite of Oshie. He's declining, opposite of Oshie, and his defense is nowhere near Oshie's.
If I'd said definitively that Cole was ready to be Pietrangelo's partner, don't you think I would not think we need a LHD? But I have said we need an LHD for two years. Huh. Maybe you're just throwing silly things at the wall because you're angry?
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you really cant see it? its all about upgrading positions which aren't set perfectly.
I'm a Cole fan and hope he can stay for a long time as our new Jax on the 2nd or 3rd pairing but if we get the chance for a real 1st pairing D I'd trade him asap. same with Bergy. I agree I'd want someone more PO proven thou
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rumrokh
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I don't think any fan here is afraid of big contracts. They're analyzing it realistically instead of beating a drum about what the team probably won't do right now. That might sound like any given fan is against big contracts, but that's not the case. We just understand that if you trade for or sign guys with big contracts, you open the gate to bigger demands from the rest of your players. So it's not just a matter of balking at any one player or contract, it's realizing that it's a more complicated issue that doesn't intersect with what we wish would happen.
The fact of the matter is that the income level in St. Louis relative to team costs and interest in hockey is not high enough to run a team that way unless the owner just shells out money to win. Very few sports teams actually work this way, and most of the ones that do still don't win the championship.
That doesn't necessarily make the owners cheap (although that certainly can be the case), it means it's a damn business and the Blues have to get creative.
Regarding Stastny, the dude is good, but it's been a while since he has been a serious impact player. The idea that he'd return to point-per-game play with the Blues is not as likely as some people are suggesting. It's possible, but we've seen what certainties are like among fans. So many people thought Stewart was going to carry the team last season and then most of the same people wanted to trade him for absolutely anything just months later. So, it's plausible that Stastny needs better wingers and he'll return to form, but that doesn't make it true.
In your mind, that either isn't a gamble or it's a gamble that's worth serious assets and losing Stastny in a year. Most people here think the fact that the Blues have to be creative precludes the GM from making a big risk like that.
For all we know, Armstrong has seriously looked at upgrading at center and there is just no deal to be made right now, so it's the defenseman he's pursuing. That doesn't mean one need is more serious than another to fans or the team. But in the case of Backes and Berglund, even if those guys aren't great, they're capable scoring line centermen. The Blues don't have anybody who will look good against big, skilled top lines on the left side. Cole has performed really well at times, but he's an inexperienced wildcard. Another gamble. So even if you think the moon of Stastny, you can see that it's not ridiculous to find the center situation workable, while also finding the incompleteness of a top pairing to be pretty serious.
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