Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

[Xerloris]

I think that CBJ trade does not bode well for a future Tarasenko trade if we are forced it to trade him to make room for Tkachuk

The Bjorkstrand trade makes me think fitting in Tkachuk via trade will be a greatly difficult task. Bjorkstrand is not a conventional cap dump in the sense that he's actually a legitimate top six player and his contract is reasonable for his production. Even despite that, he only garnered a 3rd and 4th round pick. If that's the market for Bjorkstrand, I doubt many teams will be lining up to give good assets for Tarasenko which increases the difficulty of putting together an attractive package for Tkachuk. Kyrou would most definitely be going the other way and then we still need to move Tarasenko for cap reasons. That results in three top six forwards (Perron/Kyrou/Tarasenko) out and replaced by one Matthew Tkachuk. That's gonna be a yikes for me. I'd rather Armstrong just stay out of it in that case.

Tarasenko is a much better player than Bjorkstrand.

 

[Brian39]

The Bjorkstrand trade makes me think fitting in Tkachuk via trade will be a greatly difficult task. Bjorkstrand is not a conventional cap dump in the sense that he's actually a legitimate top six player and his contract is reasonable for his production. Even despite that, he only garnered a 3rd and 4th round pick. If that's the market for Bjorkstrand, I doubt many teams will be lining up to give good assets for Tarasenko which increases the difficulty of putting together an attractive package for Tkachuk. Kyrou would most definitely be going the other way and then we still need to move Tarasenko for cap reasons. That results in three top six forwards (Perron/Kyrou/Tarasenko) out and replaced by one Matthew Tkachuk. That's gonna be a yikes for me. I'd rather Armstrong just stay out of it in that case.

The exact same consideration is part of the reason that Calgary isn't going to get anything close to their asking price for Tkachuk unless they eat a ton of salary. Any deal they make is going to have to include taking on a cap dump (or two) because the guy they are giving up is going to be making $9-$11M a year.

One form of eating salary is being the middle man to retain salary in a 3 way trade. One year of Tarasenko at $3.725M has real value, but we certainly aren't looking to retain 50%. But Calgary can take Tarasenko as part of our package and then flip him with 50% retained for a good asset from a cap-strapped team that wants goals. Worth noting that Tarasenko only makes $5.5M real dollars this year, so retaining $3.725M in cap space only costs $2.75M real dollars.

We shouldn't give Calgary Kyrou for Tkachuk under any circumstances. But using Calgary to facilitate a Tarasenko trade elsewhere (and allowing Calgary to keep all the proceeds) would have good value in a deal for Tkachuk. I think Tarasenko at 50% retained returns a 1st round pick in this market (he absolutely does if Calgary also takes on a $2-3M cap dump from the team that gets Tarasenko). I think that gets you about halfway (or maybe even more than halfway) to the best thing the Flames are going to get for Tkachuk.

Calgary is going to have to eat $5M to $8M in salary/cap in order to get a real return for Tkachuk. They should find a way to do that and maximize the return, because they aren't a good team next year without Tkachuk. Ideally they should be looking at eating money on 1 or 2 year deals.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

So we trade Kyrou, a prospect, and a 1st for Tkachuk
Trade Tarasenko for barely anything.
We just lost Perron in free agency.

Well be going into next year with
Tkachuk-Thomas-Buch
Saad-RoR-Barbie
Neighbors-Schenn-???
4th line

Not a very pretty lineup after the 1st line.

 

[stl76]

So we trade Kyrou, a prospect, and a 1st for Tkachuk
Trade Tarasenko for barely anything.
We just lost Perron in free agency.

Well be going into next year with
Tkachuk-Thomas-Buch
Saad-RoR-Barbie
Neighbors-Schenn-???
4th line

Not a very pretty lineup after the 1st line.

Don’t trade Kyrou for Tkachuk then.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Don’t trade Kyrou for Tkachuk then.

I don't want to lol

 

[PJJJP]

Tarasenko is a much better player than Bjorkstrand.

Bjorkstrand is pretty good. He's coming off a 28 goal 57 point season signed for 4 more years at 5.4 mil. He's a good 2nd line winger both offensively and defensively. Tarasenko is better but I don't think the return we get for him will be good.

 

[BlueMed]

So we trade Kyrou, a prospect, and a 1st for Tkachuk
Trade Tarasenko for barely anything.
We just lost Perron in free agency.

Well be going into next year with
Tkachuk-Thomas-Buch
Saad-RoR-Barbie
Neighbors-Schenn-???
4th line

Not a very pretty lineup after the 1st line.

I think people need to start asking themselves how much of an upgrade Tkachuk is over Kyrou. Is that upgrade really worth a 1st and a prospect like Neighbours, Bolduc, or Perunovich? Are people factoring in that Kyrou has another cap controlled year at 2.8 M AAV?

 

[Xanadude]

That Bjorkstrand deal, as others have said, does not bode well for a Tarasenko trade. Absolute highway robbery by Seattle on that one.

A three-way trade with Tarasenko's return going straight to Calgary is probably the only way we get Tkachuk at this point. If that can't happen and Tkachuk will cost Kyrou +... man, as good as Matt is I don't know if its worth it.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

That Bjorkstrand deal, as others have said, does not bode well for a Tarasenko trade. Absolute highway robbery by Seattle on that one.

A three-way trade with Tarasenko's return going straight to Calgary is probably the only way we get Tkachuk at this point. If that can't happen and Tkachuk will cost Kyrou +... man, as good as Matt is I don't know if its worth it.

Yeah, we will get hosed if we trade for Tkachuk now.

He is simply not a need.

Right now, we just need to hope that one of Neighbours and Bolduc is ready for full time top-9 duty, and our coming season is basically set. We may add a deadline acquisition, but otherwise the team has pretty much no holes to speak of.

 

[Reality Czech]

If Strickland's comments in this YT video can be relied on based on his connection to the family (HUGE grain of salt) and the only team MT will sign with long-term is the Blues, the current market value of MT is that of a UFA with 1 year left. Period. Probably a 1st round pick, a good (not great) roster player, and either a secondary pick or a good (not great) prospect. The Blues, as the only team he will extend with in this scenario, have no obligation to pay above that market value just because they can keep him when the other 30 teams can't.

Personally, I don't think Army blinks on this one. If he can find value for Tarasenko from a team that the player will waive for, I think he moves Tarasenko in a 3-way deal or flips the return for Tarasenko to Calgary and adds the difference in the value between an MT UFA and a VT UFA. For example, if Lou L decides he wants VT and is willing to part with Beauvillier and a 2nd to get him, I think Army gets on the phone with Treliving and offers Beauvillier, our 1st, Mikkola and maybe a 3rd/4th and pockets the NYI 2nd.

If (AGAIN, A BIG IF) Strickland's intel is correct and the Blues are ONLY team that can sign him long-term, then Calgary has zero leverage and can only choose to trade him here or burn a bridge and trade MT somewhere he doesn't want to play even though that team realizes they are only getting him as a high priced one year rental. I don't see any team that has the space to fit his one year deal that is a MT away from being a serious cup contender in 2022-23 and I don't see Treliving sending him to Buffalo or Arizona to punish him because that will impact his ability to attract young talent in the future.

Frankly, I'm on the fence on trading for him in the first place. I certainly don't want to subtract a young talent like Kyrou (and have to move Tarasenko on top of the loss of Perron) even if it means we end up in cap hell next offseason when Kyrou and ROR need new deals. Get a steal of a deal on MT because our team (well, really the player) has all the leverage or stand pat and wait to see if he is available in a year. We are still probably 2nd best in the West behind a team that may be suffering from a Cup hangover next season even if we make no more moves. This might be our best chance to get back to the SCF for the foreseeable future and I don't want to throw that away building a team that has a new window opening in 2-3 years when the cap starts to climb significantly. Personally, I think we can have both (a chance to win next season and extend the window) if Army plays this right, and I trust that he will.

I listened to the same clip and Strick sure does seem confident. The more I think about it, I tend to agree with you and what Strick said and take Kyrou off the table completely. Even though I like Tkachuk more as a player, we can't afford to give up a PPG player who will be making $2.8 million this year from a roster perspective. It's just too much value to move when there is a chance we can acquire Tkachuk in other ways, or just wait a year. So if there is a way to get him now without trading Kyrou, I'm all ears....otherwise let's hope he is so set on playing here that he will wait a year and sign as a UFA. Strick basically said he can't imagine Army even considering including Kyrou in a Tkachuk trade.

I absolutely want Tkachuk on the team though, because a trio of Kyrou, Tkachuk and Thomas would be sick. They all bring different things to the table, but are all elite at what they do. I'd have to think that would keep our window open for the foreseeable future unless something drastic happens.

The Bjorkstrand trade makes me think fitting in Tkachuk via trade will be a greatly difficult task. Bjorkstrand is not a conventional cap dump in the sense that he's actually a legitimate top six player and his contract is reasonable for his production. Even despite that, he only garnered a 3rd and 4th round pick. If that's the market for Bjorkstrand, I doubt many teams will be lining up to give good assets for Tarasenko which increases the difficulty of putting together an attractive package for Tkachuk. Kyrou would most definitely be going the other way and then we still need to move Tarasenko for cap reasons. That results in three top six forwards (Perron/Kyrou/Tarasenko) out and replaced by one Matthew Tkachuk. That's gonna be a yikes for me. I'd rather Armstrong just stay out of it in that case.

Absolutely. People have seemed quite confident that we could easily move Tarasenko for a first or good return, but once Vegas had to give away Pacioretty I realized we won't be getting much for Vladi. It sure seems like the flat cap is affecting teams a lot more this summer than last summer, which is probably expected. And any team that was able to save some cap space has benefitted greatly from that. Crazy how Carolina basically added Burns and Max for next to nothing, and that's not a team I thought would have a ton of cap space.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Bjorkstrand was a long-term deal, that's the difference with Tarasenko. Then again, Patches didn't have long term cap commitment and Vegas literally gave him away.

 

[PocketNines]

The exact same consideration is part of the reason that Calgary isn't going to get anything close to their asking price for Tkachuk unless they eat a ton of salary. Any deal they make is going to have to include taking on a cap dump (or two) because the guy they are giving up is going to be making $9-$11M a year.

One form of eating salary is being the middle man to retain salary in a 3 way trade. One year of Tarasenko at $3.725M has real value, but we certainly aren't looking to retain 50%. But Calgary can take Tarasenko as part of our package and then flip him with 50% retained for a good asset from a cap-strapped team that wants goals. Worth noting that Tarasenko only makes $5.5M real dollars this year, so retaining $3.725M in cap space only costs $2.75M real dollars.

We shouldn't give Calgary Kyrou for Tkachuk under any circumstances. But using Calgary to facilitate a Tarasenko trade elsewhere (and allowing Calgary to keep all the proceeds) would have good value in a deal for Tkachuk. I think Tarasenko at 50% retained returns a 1st round pick in this market (he absolutely does if Calgary also takes on a $2-3M cap dump from the team that gets Tarasenko). I think that gets you about halfway (or maybe even more than halfway) to the best thing the Flames are going to get for Tkachuk.

Calgary is going to have to eat $5M to $8M in salary/cap in order to get a real return for Tkachuk. They should find a way to do that and maximize the return, because they aren't a good team next year without Tkachuk. Ideally they should be looking at eating money on 1 or 2 year deals.

In this scenario, Calgary gets someone else's 1st, probably the Blues' 1st (both in a strong draft), a 2-3M cap dump from 3d team, Calgary eats 2.75M real dollars.

So what else goes to Calgary from the Blues besides that? Has to be some salary, so Mikkola/Barbashev?

How much more of an offer are they getting from someone else?

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Primarily because we run the risk of not getting him by waiting. He could be traded somewhere else, and be willing to sign there.

Secondly, we would get this year out of him. We do not know if O'Rei will re-sign. So it may be the only chance to have O'Rei + Tkachuk. Assuming Tkachuk is better than what we lose to acquire him, its just another year of adding him to the team. If we get worse by adding Tkachuk (trade Kyrou for him and trade Tarasenko for salary) then it makes far less sense. But if we only have to move Tarasenko and futures, then we are a better team this year as well as the next 7 or however many we re-sign Tkachuk.

This is exactly why I am against trading Kyrou. We have a lot of good players that are approaching or beginning their declines. If you can arrange the finances to manage the cap (Tarasenko for futures to forward on and another contract dump), you are really leaning in on this season, which makes logical sense.

Dealing Kyrou cuts against that because you still have to shed salary. I understand that Kyrou vs ROR comes to a head, but there is some time value in letting that play out to make the proper decision anyway.

 

[Reality Czech]

I think people need to start asking themselves how much of an upgrade Tkachuk is over Kyrou. Is that upgrade really worth a 1st and a prospect like Neighbours, Bolduc, or Perunovich? Are people factoring in that Kyrou has another cap controlled year at 2.8 M AAV?

Yeah, as I mentioned in my post Strick seemed to think Army wouldn't even consider trading Kyrou right now. I was originally more open to trading him, but have reconsidered and would prefer not to include him in any deal. The only way I would even consider it is if we can keep Tarasenko for this season, but obviously that would mean we'd have to move salary elsewhere and perhaps get someone to retain money on Tkachuk. Not very realistic, so the more I think about it the more I feel like we can't trade Kyrou right now.

 

[Stealth JD]

There is no reality in which Kyrou goes to Calgary in a Tkachuk deal. None.

 

[STEVIE RAY BLUES]

So finding a 6'6 shut down Dman that can play 30 minutes a night is easy to replace?

Listing his size as if that's a part of his game is hilarious. I have never seen a player so big miss more opportunities to hit someone. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Yes 30 min per night is a chunk but it would not be the first time a player of that caliber was replaced by two or more others at a much cheaper cost. He would clear the cap space we need and provide the true power forward we have been missing since Patty left and then some. Maybe you should look into how many true power forwards exist in the NHL right now. We would also keep the little bit of speed we have on the roster with Kyrou.

 

[HighNote]

Listing his size as if that's a part of his game is hilarious. I have never seen a player so big miss more opportunities to hit someone. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Yes 30 min per night is a chunk but it would not be the first time a player of that caliber was replaced by two or more others at a much cheaper cost. He would clear the cap space we need and provide the true power forward we have been missing since Patty left and then some. Maybe you should look into how many true power forwards exist in the NHL right now. We would also keep the little bit of speed we have on the roster with Kyrou.

If you move Parayko our defense would be in shambles. Not only will this create a big hole in the right side of our defense, it would put even more pressure on our weaker left side to defend. We need to be improving our defense not further damaging it for the sake of improving a position of strength.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

It’s a moot point. Tkachuk got traded to Florida tonight.

 

[Novacain]

Jesus Christ they gave up WHAT?

Like, I kind of wanted to do this, but that is an insane overpay. A stunning overpay.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Aaand Tkachuk to Florida. No idea what they were doing. Calgary got a really good return.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So, they knew Huberdeau wasn't going to stay, but feels like a weird trade.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

If flames can extend weegar and huberdeau that is a haul. If not, gonna end up with bunch of late firsts for their franchise guy.

 

[TheDizee]

Yeah and wow the haul CGY got back is alot better than anything we would offer.

Huberdeau is on the same tier as MT plus they got a 1st, Weeger and another prospect.

That does not make FLA better team in either the short or long term lol.

Both players numbers will drop off next year although MT is clearly sitting on the better team now.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Good lord. I'm definitely glad we didn't match that.

 

[bleedblue1223]

They definitely didn't get a Kyrou type.