Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

[ValHaller]

Chychrun doesn't have a f***ing say in where he goes. So what the f*** does that matter? Obviously if Chyrchun is available for a reasonable price and his medicals are not worrisome, that changes the calculation.

And yes, your position is quite clear. You say a whole bunch of other bullshit, but it comes down you what you wrote. "I don't want him". Fine. You think his cap hit will be troublesome. That won't change much in a year. We actually agree more than you think. I only want him on a reasonable, discounted contract AND for a reasonable trade price. If we have to sacrifice Kyrou, or Bolduc (I don't mind Neighbours or Scandella as I think they aren't that good) than no way. I basically want to move Taraseno and use those assets plus a small sweetener for the certainty that he doesn't sign elsewhere.

So your entire argument is that he won't have as good of a season so we can sign him for cheaper? So we should always wait an extra year to trade for someone just in case they suck next year so we can pay them less? Just as stupid as I thought it was going to be.

You guys are so emotionally invested in this it's hilarious. Look at the tone of what you're writing and how you a have to resort to insults because you can't come up with anything better.

Yes if a player goes from 104 points to 80 or therabouts, they are not getting the same contract. Why else would MT be so interested in signing long term RIGHT NOW when he could just wait out the next season with his huge arbitration awarded contract and walk into free agency as a big swinging dick?

 

[Xerloris]

You guys are so emotionally invested in this it's hilarious. Look at the tone of what you're writing and how you a have to resort to insults because you can't come up with anything better.

Yes if a player goes from 104 points to 80 or therabouts, they are not getting the same contract. Why else would MT be so interested in signing long term RIGHT NOW when he could just wait out the next season with his huge arbitration awarded contract and walk into free agency as a big swinging dick?

Maybe you should read the things I have said before claiming I am emotionally invested. I have flat out said I am concerned about how much we will have to pay him but that doesn't mean I am stupid and think we should wait a year and hope he sucks so we can save some cash.

Who said he's so interested in signing long term right now? He's actually the one that told Calgary he will NOT sign long term.

 

[ValHaller]

Maybe you should read the things I have said before claiming I am emotionally invested. I have flat out said I am concerned about how much we will have to pay him but that doesn't mean I am stupid and think we should wait a year and hope he sucks so we can save some cash.

You're the one who came at me, bud. I'm not on Xerloris watch going back and reading everything you ever wrote. I'm glad you've informed me now of your position, but that doesn't change the fact you came in here like a big whiny baby.

 

[Majorityof1]

You guys are so emotionally invested in this it's hilarious. Look at the tone of what you're writing and how you a have to resort to insults because you can't come up with anything better.

Yes if a player goes from 104 points to 80 or therabouts, they are not getting the same contract. Why else would MT be so interested in signing long term RIGHT NOW when he could just wait out the next season with his huge arbitration awarded contract and walk into free agency as a big swinging dick?

I am not emotionally invested in Tkachuk, I am exasperated by your BS. Which is why this is my last reply to you. If you bother to read what I wrote, I only want him under very favorable circumstances.

There is no guarantee Tkachuk goes to 80. But yes, an 80 point free agent on the open market will get near as much as a 100 point RFA who the signing team has to give up assets to acquire, signed after UFA when there are far less teams who could make the cap work.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I think that the logic of “wait for MT to have a down season for a discount” is very flawed. If he hits free agency and decides he wants the biggest payout he can get, he is going to get some large offers regardless of if he has a bad year or not. If he wants to give the Blues a break then he will, this year or next. It isn’t going to change the price, though. He’s established who he is. Perhaps if he has a leg amputated next year then we might be able to get a discount.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I’m pretty curious what teams Tarasenko will approve a trade to right now. I’m under the impression he still wants to be traded, but how motivated is he?

What teams will Krug approve a trade to? There was some minor rumors around Boston, and you have to figure he’d say yes to that, but who else?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

These threads where people are bickering over their opinion of whether the Blues SHOULD acquire Tkachuk (or Chychrun or whoever) and jousting over peoples’ preferences are getting exhausting. The only thing I’m interested in is trying to predict what will actually happen.

From that standpoint, I think Armstrong will make room for Tkachuk. I don’t think Kyrou would be part of the return, since Tarasenko would be the biggest salary subtraction (even if not directly traded to Calgary). I’m less certain if OReilly will be re-signed after this contract, and I think Schenn would have to be traded to allow for it. (Obviously, these are moves going forward a couple years.) I think Kyrou-Thomas-Tkachuk would be the main offensive core after the dust settles.

All these developments are good news for Neighbors, as cheap ELC slots down the lineup are going to be there for the taking immediately. Snuggerud probably becomes currency though.

 

[MissouriMook]

I’m pretty curious what teams Tarasenko will approve a trade to right now. I’m under the impression he still wants to be traded, but how motivated is he?

What teams will Krug approve a trade to? There was some minor rumors around Boston, and you have to figure he’d say yes to that, but who else?

I would guess Detroit, and they could use him with both of their top guys being righties, I just don't know what they could send back in return that we would find useful or could be flipped in a Tkachuk deal.

These threads where people are bickering over their opinion of whether the Blues SHOULD acquire Tkachuk (or Chychrun or whoever) and jousting over peoples’ preferences are getting exhausting. The only thing I’m interested in is trying to predict what will actually happen.

From that standpoint, I think Armstrong will make room for Tkachuk. I don’t think Kyrou would be part of the return, since Tarasenko would be the biggest salary subtraction (even if not directly traded to Calgary). I’m less certain if OReilly will be re-signed after this contract, and I think Schenn would have to be traded to allow for it. (Obviously, these are moves going forward a couple years.) I think Kyrou-Thomas-Tkachuk would be the main offensive core after the dust settles.

All these developments are good news for Neighbors, as cheap ELC slots down the lineup are going to be there for the taking immediately. Snuggerud probably becomes currency though.

I've seen proposals where we send Kyrou and Bolduc to Calgary for Tkachuk and to me that is just absurd. Even if you were willing to trade Kyrou to get Tkachuk, you need to keep Bolduc because he should be expected to fill the scoring void left by losing Kyrou (in addition to Perron and, presumably, Tarasenko) while on a cheap deal for the first 3-5 years.

 

[Ranksu]

I would love if we could get rid off Krug.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I would love it if Nick Leddy wasn't our top LD.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I’m pretty curious what teams Tarasenko will approve a trade to right now. I’m under the impression he still wants to be traded, but how motivated is he?

What teams will Krug approve a trade to? There was some minor rumors around Boston, and you have to figure he’d say yes to that, but who else?

I've been asking myself these same questions, trying to figure out this puzzle.

Figure the Canes are out on Tarasenko with the Pacioretty for free trade. Devils may be out with Palat signing. Islanders have been really quiet. Rangers could be interested but we'd have to retain which defeats the point. Panthers? They don't really have anything to trade for Tarasenko. Flyers would be a wildcard.
tl/dr Tarasenko to Islanders or Flyers seems most likely with Rangers and Devils as other options. Dont think there are any Western Conference teams we would deal him to.

What does the return look like from NYI? A 1st and less prospect (Wahstrom/Bolduc/Wilde), Richard Panik (cap dump)? I could live with that.

From PHI - it would be ideal to get Provorov. Doubt PHI would retain but never say never. Sanheim as well but less interested with only 1 year control. Konecny would be a nice add too that would fit better at RW in a Matthew-Tkachuk constrained salary cap structure at 5.5M. PHI appears to have some big cap issues so a trade to them may not be likely.

Not sure who would be interested in Krug. I agree that Boston makes the most sense with Detroit as a distant 2nd. Boston has some cap available to fit Krug in. I assume Grzelcyk would need to be included for them to make it work. What I can't figure out is what Torrey Krug could command in a trade. Most realistic trade I came up with is Debrusk, Gryz and pick/prospect for Krug. This trade does nothing for the Blues short term and is more about clearing Krug from the books. I presume Gryz and Debrusk would both have a short stay in STL before being sent to a new team.

I also can't help but wonder if Krug and Tarasenko are moved and Tkachuk is acquired, if Armstrong doesn't have another arrow in his quiver to also somehow acquire Chychrun or another unicorn LHD that no one is thinking about (Dahlin?). If we can escape the MT trade with Jordan Kyrou under team control, that might open some trade options that we haven't previously considered/weren't willing to consider. Or maybe we only agree to trade Kyrou to Calgary if they also include Hanifin, preferably with some salary retention (2 years at 4.95M AAV).

 

[stl76]

 

[Reality Czech]

I would guess Detroit, and they could use him with both of their top guys being righties, I just don't know what they could send back in return that we would find useful or could be flipped in a Tkachuk deal.


I've seen proposals where we send Kyrou and Bolduc to Calgary for Tkachuk and to me that is just absurd. Even if you were willing to trade Kyrou to get Tkachuk, you need to keep Bolduc because he should be expected to fill the scoring void left by losing Kyrou (in addition to Perron and, presumably, Tarasenko) while on a cheap deal for the first 3-5 years.

Yeah, in my opinion if Kyrou is going for Tkachuk that means we keep Bolduc and Neighbours. Maybe there would be a small plus, especially if they are taking on Scandella, but it wouldn't involve our top prospects. If Kyrou isn't part of the package, then we would likely lose a couple top prospects but of course it all depends on how Army can clear salary (if he can at all).

I would love it if Nick Leddy wasn't our top LD.

He isn't, Krug is. Maybe we should see how the lineup looks with both Krug and Leddy in the lineup before complaining about our defense? They didn't play that many games together, but I feel like we looked pretty good in the limited time both were healthy.

 

[MissouriMook]

If Strickland's comments in this YT video can be relied on based on his connection to the family (HUGE grain of salt) and the only team MT will sign with long-term is the Blues, the current market value of MT is that of a UFA with 1 year left. Period. Probably a 1st round pick, a good (not great) roster player, and either a secondary pick or a good (not great) prospect. The Blues, as the only team he will extend with in this scenario, have no obligation to pay above that market value just because they can keep him when the other 30 teams can't.

Personally, I don't think Army blinks on this one. If he can find value for Tarasenko from a team that the player will waive for, I think he moves Tarasenko in a 3-way deal or flips the return for Tarasenko to Calgary and adds the difference in the value between an MT UFA and a VT UFA. For example, if Lou L decides he wants VT and is willing to part with Beauvillier and a 2nd to get him, I think Army gets on the phone with Treliving and offers Beauvillier, our 1st, Mikkola and maybe a 3rd/4th and pockets the NYI 2nd.

If (AGAIN, A BIG IF) Strickland's intel is correct and the Blues are ONLY team that can sign him long-term, then Calgary has zero leverage and can only choose to trade him here or burn a bridge and trade MT somewhere he doesn't want to play even though that team realizes they are only getting him as a high priced one year rental. I don't see any team that has the space to fit his one year deal that is a MT away from being a serious cup contender in 2022-23 and I don't see Treliving sending him to Buffalo or Arizona to punish him because that will impact his ability to attract young talent in the future.

Frankly, I'm on the fence on trading for him in the first place. I certainly don't want to subtract a young talent like Kyrou (and have to move Tarasenko on top of the loss of Perron) even if it means we end up in cap hell next offseason when Kyrou and ROR need new deals. Get a steal of a deal on MT because our team (well, really the player) has all the leverage or stand pat and wait to see if he is available in a year. We are still probably 2nd best in the West behind a team that may be suffering from a Cup hangover next season even if we make no more moves. This might be our best chance to get back to the SCF for the foreseeable future and I don't want to throw that away building a team that has a new window opening in 2-3 years when the cap starts to climb significantly. Personally, I think we can have both (a chance to win next season and extend the window) if Army plays this right, and I trust that he will.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And wow, that Bjorkstrand deal shows how difficult it is to move salary. I think we underestimated the difficulty it would be to move some guys.

 

[Brian39]

If Strickland's comments in this YT video can be relied on based on his connection to the family (HUGE grain of salt) and the only team MT will sign with long-term is the Blues, the current market value of MT is that of a UFA with 1 year left. Period. Probably a 1st round pick, a good (not great) roster player, and either a secondary pick or a good (not great) prospect. The Blues, as the only team he will extend with in this scenario, have no obligation to pay above that market value just because they can keep him when the other 30 teams can't.

I would be shocked if that is the value of 1 year of Tkachuk at a $9-$11M award cap hit. That might be the value of such a player/salary at the draft or before the start of free agency. But 10 days into free agency after most contenders have blown their cap space on free agents or internal extensions? I don't care how good a player is. That salary requires major cuts to a roster and most teams aren't willing to make those cuts for a 1 and done guy.

If he is truly a for-sure 1 year guy with every other team, then his summer value is less than his value as a deadline rental with 50% retained. Even the best deadline rentals struggle to return the package you are talking about and they don't require a team to shed nearly the caps space they would have to shed right now. I think his value as a definite rental is somewhere around a 1st, a pure cap dump, and a middling prospect or future mid-round pick.

Matt Tkachuk is a hell player, but the actual rights Calgary owns at the moment don't hold much value if he's not talking extension with potential suitors.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

And wow, that Bjorkstrand deal shows how difficult it is to move salary. I think we underestimated the difficulty it would be to move some guys.

Yeah that’s a fantastic deal for Seattle. They got a legitimate top six forward for basically nothing.

 

[MissouriMook]

Yeah that’s a fantastic deal for Seattle. They got a legitimate top six forward for basically nothing.

I thought Jarmo was a genius for landing Gaudreau without losing Laine, but I never imagined he'd cough up Bjorkstrand to make it happen. I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a great two way player like Bjorkstrand and $3.3M in additional cap space each of the next 4 years than the far more one-dimensional Laine.

 

[STEVIE RAY BLUES]

I know this won't be popular but I would move Parayko for MT. Add as needed but I really think we can replace him easier than trying to play this ridiculous game of moving money around with aging players. I know most of STL has a man crush on the kid but I only see a puck moving defensive defensman. He can't get that big slap shot off with any regularity and he isn't physical enough to intimidate the opposition. Package him and a pick and go get our Power forward for the next ten years.

 

[Ranksu]

I would love it if Nick Leddy wasn't our top LD.

Army thinks he is.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And another thing with that deal and why Perron wasn't kept, everyone assumed they'd move Nyquist because he just has 1 year left and is still a solid player, but the issue is the long-term cap. With no guarantee for when the cap will start increasing by more than $1M, it's those players you have to move to make room for the long-term big money commitments.

It's why simply moving Tarasenko+Scandella for Tkachuk doesn't work. It's not just making it work this season, it's years 2-X. For Tkachuk to work, Krug has to go, and that's why Krug's name has been in the rumor mill. And even if we wait for Tkachuk to be a UFA, Krug's contract is still an issue. We have $24M is cap space next season based on a $83.5M cap, and that $24M would be gone just with ROR, Kyrou, and Tkachuk.

If we want Krug's contract moved, it's probably not going to be pretty, and even if we move him and we get Tkachuk, it'll probably still be very difficult to keep ROR and Kyrou and take care of the rest of the roster.

 

[Xerloris]

I know this won't be popular but I would move Parayko for MT. Add as needed but I really think we can replace him easier than trying to play this ridiculous game of moving money around with aging players. I know most of STL has a man crush on the kid but I only see a puck moving defensive defensman. He can't get that big slap shot off with any regularity and he isn't physical enough to intimidate the opposition. Package him and a pick and go get our Power forward for the next ten years.

So finding a 6'6 shut down Dman that can play 30 minutes a night is easy to replace?

 

[Mike Liut]

I know this won't be popular but I would move Parayko for MT. Add as needed but I really think we can replace him easier than trying to play this ridiculous game of moving money around with aging players. I know most of STL has a man crush on the kid but I only see a puck moving defensive defensman. He can't get that big slap shot off with any regularity and he isn't physical enough to intimidate the opposition. Package him and a pick and go get our Power forward for the next ten years.

He’s the most irreplaceable piece on the team imo. It would put the entire D out of whack with players playing in wrong roles.

 

[PJJJP]

I think that CBJ trade does not bode well for a future Tarasenko trade if we are forced it to trade him to make room for Tkachuk

 

[Oberyn]

The Bjorkstrand trade makes me think fitting in Tkachuk via trade will be a greatly difficult task. Bjorkstrand is not a conventional cap dump in the sense that he's actually a legitimate top six player and his contract is reasonable for his production. Even despite that, he only garnered a 3rd and 4th round pick. If that's the market for Bjorkstrand, I doubt many teams will be lining up to give good assets for Tarasenko which increases the difficulty of putting together an attractive package for Tkachuk. Kyrou would most definitely be going the other way and then we still need to move Tarasenko for cap reasons. That results in three top six forwards (Perron/Kyrou/Tarasenko) out and replaced by one Matthew Tkachuk. That's gonna be a yikes for me. I'd rather Armstrong just stay out of it in that case.