Blues Trade Proposals 2020-21 - Part II

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kimzey59

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Was there anyone else on the market that would've demanded a high price? I could see a change of scenery type move with Dunn. I think the Thomas injury sort of kills a Hoffman trade unless Dunn brings a forward.

Did anybody really think that Nick Foligno would bring back a "high price"?
Teams do stupid things at the Trade Deadline.

As for Hoffman and Dunn; I still see Hoffman being moved, not sure Dunn goes anywhere(IMO Dunn is the sacrificial lamb for Seattle).
 

Vincenzo Arelliti

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Bummed about Hall. I definitely would have done the equivalent of 2nd+Sanford for him. Hoffman alone makes up most of that value. Hoffman+ might have been enough to get it done if we had been creative.
 

bleedblue1223

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Did anybody really think that Nick Foligno would bring back a "high price"?
Teams do stupid things at the Trade Deadline.

As for Hoffman and Dunn; I still see Hoffman being moved, not sure Dunn goes anywhere(IMO Dunn is the sacrificial lamb for Seattle).
Armstrong isn't Kyle Dubas.
 

BlueMed

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Let's not act like Army hasn't made some really dumb deadline deals(cough Ryan Miller cough).
Granted, I think that Army is smart enough not to throw away our 1st round pick when we have an uphill climb to stay in a PO spot, but he's been known to make some headscratcher deals.

I don't think Ryan Miller was a bad acquisition at all. He let up 1 soft goal in game 3, and 1 in game 6 when the series was basically over already. The Blues were still major pretenders at that time, and bringing in a new goaltender wasn't going to fix the lack of real star power upfront to beat the likes of Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp.
 

bleedblue1223

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Let's not act like Army hasn't made some really dumb deadline deals(cough Ryan Miller cough).
Granted, I think that Army is smart enough not to throw away our 1st round pick when we have an uphill climb to stay in a PO spot, but he's been known to make some headscratcher deals.
I wouldn't call Miller a head-scratcher, we were targeting him for over a year when we finally pulled the trigger. It just didn't work out. Now a lot of us didn't believe that he was final piece, but goalie was definitely a position we needed upgraded before we could win our Cup.

Army's odd moves are more about mid-round picks on players that won't play a significant role, even in a best-case scenario. That's more what I'm worried about with him, just throwing away smaller assets on IMO pointless depth. Not that depth isn't important, but those pieces aren't going to make or break a successful run. You either already have the required depth, or you shouldn't really bother.
 

Davimir Tarablad

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Let's not act like Army hasn't made some really dumb deadline deals(cough Ryan Miller cough).
Granted, I think that Army is smart enough not to throw away our 1st round pick when we have an uphill climb to stay in a PO spot, but he's been known to make some headscratcher deals.
The Miller trade is the only time he's spent a 1st on a rental, otherwise he's reserved using 1sts to acquire guys with term left, JBo, ROR, Schenn.

I am very relieved to see Hall go elsewhere, he's a literal walking curse.
 

Vincenzo Arelliti

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I wouldn't call Miller a head-scratcher, we were targeting him for over a year when we finally pulled the trigger. It just didn't work out. Now a lot of us didn't believe that he was final piece, but goalie was definitely a position we needed upgraded before we could win our Cup.

Army's odd moves are more about mid-round picks on players that won't play a significant role, even in a best-case scenario. That's more what I'm worried about with him, just throwing away smaller assets on IMO pointless depth. Not that depth isn't important, but those pieces aren't going to make or break a successful run. You either already have the required depth, or you shouldn't really bother.
Yeah, we were planning on re-signing Miller, too. This was similar to the Schenn, O'Reilly, Bouwmeester, and Faulk trades. DA's worst trades are when he's trying to get rid of a player (Oshie, Fabbri, Shattenkirk, Perron the fist time, Hoffman??), and when he spends picks on bad depth (Soshnikov, Paajarvi, Jokinen, Jerabek, Michalek, Leopold). When DA targets a specific player, he usually gets a good deal and a good fit. Miller just didn't work out.
 
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bleedblue1223

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And Miller is why I would've been fine with a Hall trade. I was skeptical of Hall working here, but it's obvious why we'd be intrigued by his upside. Similar to Miller though, the potential downside is massive, so a good feeling out period before a big contract offer in free agency would be worth losing some assets.
 

Reality Czech

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And Miller is why I would've been fine with a Hall trade. I was skeptical of Hall working here, but it's obvious why we'd be intrigued by his upside. Similar to Miller though, the potential downside is massive, so a good feeling out period before a big contract offer in free agency would be worth losing some assets.

The thing with Miller is we really needed a legit starting goalie because we hadn't had one for years. We don't need Hall at all as we've got plenty of top 6 wingers. I'm glad we didn't get Hall, because this group is playing well without him. Teams that win the Cup generally don't make any big moves at the deadline.
 

kimzey59

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The thing with Miller is we really needed a legit starting goalie because we hadn't had one for years. We don't need Hall at all as we've got plenty of top 6 wingers. I'm glad we didn't get Hall, because this group is playing well without him. Teams that win the Cup generally don't make any big moves at the deadline.

When we got Miller we had Halak(had a 2.23 GAA and a .917 sv% at the time) and Elliott(1.96 GAA and .922 sv%) and those 2 were a year and a half removed from winning the Jennings Trophy. Granted, both had injuries in the year following the Jennings; but they had rebounded and were playing extremely well.

I strongly disagree with you guys on this point. The goalie situation was not even an issue when Army chased after Miller. We didn't need him and even Army said point blank that it was a very marginal upgrade("3-5%" I believe was the quote). The clear need that year was for scoring. And instead of going for St. Louis, Gaborik, Vanek, Moulson, Hemsky or Penner(all moved that year); he went after a goalie that we didn't need.

It was a dumb move.
And Hall would have been just as bad.
 

Pizza!Pizza!

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At least Armstong was smart enough to let Miller walk and not lose another pick.
True, but even if he had resigned Miller I think things would have worked out. Just look at how well he's played for a much worse Anaheim team since leaving STL. Miller had played his entire career in the ECF, he definitely needed an adjustment period to get used to the playbook on a lot of the WCF forwards. I was a big proponent of the Miller trade, but I wanted it to happen as soon as possible - not at the deadline. He was also the least weakest member of that Blues squad, his big crime was not stealing any of the games that the rest of the team failed to show up for.
 
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Reality Czech

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When we got Miller we had Halak(had a 2.23 GAA and a .917 sv% at the time) and Elliott(1.96 GAA and .922 sv%) and those 2 were a year and a half removed from winning the Jennings Trophy. Granted, both had injuries in the year following the Jennings; but they had rebounded and were playing extremely well.

I strongly disagree with you guys on this point. The goalie situation was not even an issue when Army chased after Miller. We didn't need him and even Army said point blank that it was a very marginal upgrade("3-5%" I believe was the quote). The clear need that year was for scoring. And instead of going for St. Louis, Gaborik, Vanek, Moulson, Hemsky or Penner(all moved that year); he went after a goalie that we didn't need.

It was a dumb move.
And Hall would have been just as bad.

I probably wouldn't have made the move, but at least I got it. Everyone knows that Elliott and Halak weren't as good as their stats suggested because the Blues were so dominant defensively. But yeah, scoring was the major issue for a while. It was also unrealistic to expect a new goalie to acclimate himself to a new team in just a month or two. At this point, I don't want the Blues to make ANY big deadline deals because it just doesn't give players enough time to get used to playing with their new team. In general my strategy would be to make big moves in the offseason and cosmetic moves at the deadline.

Hall would have been a disaster. The potential negatives far outweighed the potential positives.
 

Frenzy31

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It wasn’t just Miller, it was Ott, At the time, I thought Ott was the better piece, and was not fond of Miller.

I felt it would take too long for him to adjust and then the seemed to have been an issue with the goalie coach if I remember correctly. Miller just was able to get used to not having a massive work load each game.

It was Armstrong’s worse acquisition,
 

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I'm glad the Blues didn't get Hall. Trading picks for rentals shouldn't really be on the table and the team is already without their 2nd or 4th rounders as is. I was also concerned that if DA acquired Hall he would be compelled to extend him which is also something I want no part of. I still hope they can squeeze a 2nd out of some team for Hoffman and they move him today. Otherwise just ride this out.
 
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bleedblue1223

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The thing with Miller is we really needed a legit starting goalie because we hadn't had one for years. We don't need Hall at all as we've got plenty of top 6 wingers. I'm glad we didn't get Hall, because this group is playing well without him. Teams that win the Cup generally don't make any big moves at the deadline.
I'd say we still need scoring though, and as long as Kyrou is out of the top 6, and Hoffman is a question mark, we do have a hole there as Sanford and Blais are just underwhelming when bumped up. And similar to when we went for Miller, I think we have too many other holes to make a serious run, so I don't think we should waste assets away this deadline. We need the Schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko line to produce at a higher level, and then we need our bottom 6 to really up their game. The bottom 6 feels way more like our pretender years than our Cup year when each line excelled in their role and they all could still chip in and score.
 

bleedblue1223

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When we got Miller we had Halak(had a 2.23 GAA and a .917 sv% at the time) and Elliott(1.96 GAA and .922 sv%) and those 2 were a year and a half removed from winning the Jennings Trophy. Granted, both had injuries in the year following the Jennings; but they had rebounded and were playing extremely well.

I strongly disagree with you guys on this point. The goalie situation was not even an issue when Army chased after Miller. We didn't need him and even Army said point blank that it was a very marginal upgrade("3-5%" I believe was the quote). The clear need that year was for scoring. And instead of going for St. Louis, Gaborik, Vanek, Moulson, Hemsky or Penner(all moved that year); he went after a goalie that we didn't need.

It was a dumb move.
And Hall would have been just as bad.
I mean, it was an issue. Our goalies were similar to our center situation. Backes in his prime is a fine top 6 player on a Cup team, but not a #1 center. Elliott and Halak can win you plenty of games in the regular season and are fine starters on a playoff team, but they weren't ever to the level of Binnington on that Cup run. The bounce back ability and ability to steal games was huge. There were more than a few games on that Cup run that we would've lost if it wasn't for Binnington, I don't think any of our previous goalies would've been able to do that.

Our goalies were never good enough, our top center was never good enough, and our bottom 6 was always random pieces thrown together instead of a cohesive group.
 

Blues0307

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Let's not act like Army hasn't made some really dumb deadline deals(cough Ryan Miller cough).
Granted, I think that Army is smart enough not to throw away our 1st round pick when we have an uphill climb to stay in a PO spot, but he's been known to make some headscratcher deals.

Correct, all GM's are probably in that same boat, but I do remember Joe Strauss reporting that people within the organization didn't even understand the trade because they thought Jake Allen was a better option than Miller. On top of that, Strauss reported that Miller didn't want to be traded to St. Louis and had no intention in staying here after the season. He even created locker room problems because of his attitude while here. Army got fleeced in that deal as we gave up a 1st, a 3rd, and Carrier, and ended up with Steve Ott to show for it, who was obviously well past his prime by then.
 

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I'd say we still need scoring though, and as long as Kyrou is out of the top 6, and Hoffman is a question mark, we do have a hole there as Sanford and Blais are just underwhelming when bumped up. And similar to when we went for Miller, I think we have too many other holes to make a serious run, so I don't think we should waste assets away this deadline. We need the Schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko line to produce at a higher level, and then we need our bottom 6 to really up their game. The bottom 6 feels way more like our pretender years than our Cup year when each line excelled in their role and they all could still chip in and score.

Berube should rotate Blais and Sanford between the 4th line and the top line with ROR and Perron, and tell them that these are the two jobs available on the team and to make their claims. Keep each guy pushing the other until it sorts itself out, or Blais gets hurt.
 
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I'd say we still need scoring though, and as long as Kyrou is out of the top 6, and Hoffman is a question mark, we do have a hole there as Sanford and Blais are just underwhelming when bumped up. And similar to when we went for Miller, I think we have too many other holes to make a serious run, so I don't think we should waste assets away this deadline. We need the Schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko line to produce at a higher level, and then we need our bottom 6 to really up their game. The bottom 6 feels way more like our pretender years than our Cup year when each line excelled in their role and they all could still chip in and score.
We're in that area again where we've got lots of pieces and we still have holes. We have scoring, we need it to be consistent and we need someone to step up and be a constant, dangerous threat. We're paper-thin on defense. As you note, that bottom-6 is nothing like what we had 2 years ago. How much of that is just Sundqvist not being here, I don't know. Doesn't matter, he's not in the lineup. Yes, on paper our 4th line could be Barbashev-Bozak-Clifford. It makes our 3rd line something like Blais-Thomas-Kyrou, which on paper you'd say "that could be a great line" but again, it just doesn't click and it's become an offensive black hole with Thomas not doing well even before his latest injury.

This is not the year to buy on the team. It could just as easily miss the playoffs as it could win 2 series, because who knows if the last 3 games are really a sign of things to come or if it's part of some 6-game hot streak that will make us look great before we suddenly nose-dive again. If it performs as it is and does something in the playoffs, awesome. We use that to evaluate what we have and who we want going forward.



On top of that, Strauss reported that Miller didn't want to be traded to St. Louis and had no intention in staying here after the season. He even created locker room problems because of his attitude while here. Army got fleeced in that deal as we gave up a 1st, a 3rd, and Carrier, and ended up with Steve Ott to show for it, who was obviously well past his prime by then.
I remember Miller being really ambivalent about being here, and Armstrong was hoping he could sway Miller into sticking around. He wasn't, and he didn't care how the team did because he was ready to go home. He wasn't going to intentionally crap all over the ice, but he certainly wasn't going to go the extra mile for us.
 
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mk80

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I think it may be a quiet deadline day outside of a minor move or two league wide.
 
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