Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Snuggs]

I wonder if Yzerman's got the stones to try and pull off a Larkin trade to the Dallas Stars involving Wyatt Johnston coming the other way.

He'll prolly just get by again trading guys like Lyon/Fishcer and draft, trade away Holl+2nd round pick, sign some crappy d-man like Forbot. Save his job for another year.

I mean honestly as a Red Wings fan, what I personally saw this offseason was just complete non-sense. NOT one moment since July 1st did I personally think RedWings are playoff ready or even growing as a team this year. IT's a huge step backwards. Huge step. Almost every move this offseason was bad outside of Talbot. Literally almost every move.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Judging the rebuild on a game-to-game basis is idiotic. Should be a new thread to discuss the short-term problems that can be bumped after each win/loss. Even through a rough stretch here the long-term outlook is looking good and should be disconnected to the performance of Jeff Petry, Andrew Copp, Alex Lyon and Ben Chiarot.

 

[cvaicunas]

I’m not buying that either. Redwings drafted in the top 10, 7 consecutive seasons. This wasn’t a team that hit rock bottom for 2 seasons and got screwed. Yes no lotto luck, but got Raymond with 4ov one of the best production players from that draft and could have easily drafted Hughes right out of their own backyard with the 6ov. This is clearly on managements draft selection and roster building.

I personally think Redwings would be worse had they drafted 1ov in 2020 as Raymond since his draft has been better than Lafreniere who was the NHL consensus #1. Even if you don’t agree with that I’d have a hard time being convinced swapping them does anything for Detroit even if someone believes Lafreniere moving forward is better.

Wings were rumored to favor Stuzle that draft year

 

[cvaicunas]

It was just a low quality rebuild. Stevie Y built a team that looks like it will probably peak as a playoff bubble team.

I don't understand how these takes are so prevalent when the vast majority of drafted players have yet to hit the NHL. The current roster is uninspiring yes, but the rebuild is not over. Acting like the current roster is the one meant to compete for a Stanley Cup is disingenuous at best.

 

[PredsV82]

Gotta admit I saw this thread title and was hoping for a funny dubbed Hitler video.


For the unititated:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hitlers-downfall-parodies

 

[Fatass]

I don't understand how these takes are so prevalent when the vast majority of drafted players have yet to hit the NHL. The current roster is uninspiring yes, but the rebuild is not over. Acting like the current roster is the one meant to compete for a Stanley Cup is disingenuous at best.

Star players are the difference makers. Yzerman has yet to draft or trade for these level guys.

 

[cvaicunas]

Oiler fan here, agreeing with this Leaf fan.


You guys are trying to do what we did. Rebuild with Kadri/Kessel/JVR Hall/RNH/Eberle
You need to build around McDavid/Draisaitl or Matthews/Marner level talent.

So the only way to properly rebuild a franchise is to draft, in the case of two of these players, is to draft generational talent? Neither the Leafs or Oilers have won anything, so at this point neither franchise has actually truly succeeded in their rebuild.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Honestly, one of my co-workers is a hardcore wings fan and I was almost sure they’re stacked enough to make the next step. Sometimes the chemistry just ain’t there, it def isn’t a devoid of talent. Not sure what the f***, down seasons?

 

[cvaicunas]

So, Yzerman was a great player.... that means nothing. Gretzky was a terrible coach. Roy failed before in the NHL and is now slowly building back his rep in Long Island, although the Isles sit out of the playoffs picture. Nieuwendyk failed as a GM. I don't see Lemieux, Orr, Hull, Potvin, Bourque, Fedorov, Selanne, Lidstrom etc. running teams. Management is different from playing. Arguably the 3'best GMs in the game right now, Zito, Nill, and Allvin, are relative nobodies in the NHL players' archive.

Ok, the Red Wings have a much, much better history than the Panthers....again irrelevant. It doesn't matter what team you root for...the proven best way to build a contender is to tank for multiple years and acquire superstars. This isn't 2002 anymore. There's a salary cap.

Lol Yzerman didn't draft too good of talent....what he did was sign mediocre FAs and make trades that have kept the Wings from bottoming out. I know what's coming up through their pipeline, I follow prospects closely.

Montreal started their rebuild after Detroit, and theirs already looks better. Rangers started their rebuild at the same time as Detroit, and they are far ahead of them now.

Yes, as a Panthers fan I know what a failed rebuild looks like... we've had a couple. There are lots of rebuilds going on in the NHL right now and not all will work out. I think Detroit is one of those.

Other than using the word "rebuild," the actual circumstances between the Rangers and Wings could not be more different.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I don't understand how these takes are so prevalent when the vast majority of drafted players have yet to hit the NHL. The current roster is uninspiring yes, but the rebuild is not over. Acting like the current roster is the one meant to compete for a Stanley Cup is disingenuous at best.

Aren't Detroits highest drafted players during the rebuild playing right now in Detroit?

Every single franchise, all of them, have drafted prospects that they think and hope will be good but who are currently not playing in the NHL...who cares

 

[SirKillalot]

What Holland rebuild? He had a mandate to keep the team competitive. He did that until it was no longer possible and then traded UFAs and hoarded picks while not tying the team to any bad long term contracts.

He left Yzerman in a great position with tonnes of picks and a good, young first line center.

It's perfectly fine to argue that Holland's goal was to keep the team in the playoffs. Last year in the playoffs was 2016.

This was the team prior to Yzerman taking over:
Detroit salary cap 2019

In no way shape or form was the team in a state of having a ton of picks from Holland. Some yes, some were also used before Yzerman took over. Which in general its one of the two big critiques in Holland's tenure with the Wings. The ending and trading too many times future for not impactful enough veterans.
Which of them Joe Veleno who got drafted from Holland in that specific period of time has turned into a player who is with the team.

More importantly when you look at that team, there wasn't many players with value to trade away, most were hindering contracts or meh role players. Exactly why you see there is few trades in Yzerman's first season, only one "significant" trade which was Athanasiou to Oilers and Holland. They also got Mike Green for scraps as he wasn't as good anymore.

After that after a year Yzerman got a 2nd to acquire Marc Staal as capdump from the Rangers and after almost two seasons prior to trade deadline was the first major trade sending Anthony Mantha to the Capitals. Then later on Bertuzzi and Hronek. Which you could say is of course from Holland's time, but it took three and a half years for them to get to a solid value of trade.

Which is also why this rebuild needs to be given time so that such Yzerman related picks gets the time to develop and get to that age of contribution as well. As then it became clear that this process will take awhile thus those three were traded to get picks that would fit the timeline, also some wasn't seen as a player type that they wanted to build on in their team.

You can check trade history here:
Red Wings Trade History

Draft history here:
Red Wings draft history

 

[cvaicunas]

Aren't Detroits highest drafted players during the rebuild playing right now in Detroit?

Every single franchise, all of them, have drafted prospects that they think and hope will be good but who are currently not playing in the NHL...who cares

Well Detroit has not been using their high draft picks in trades to improve the roster, so I think it's fair to expect one needs to see how those picks pan out to truly access the rebuild. It's clear their intention is to build through the draft, hence the increased importance on said draft picks filling out the team's core. This is not a cup contender drafting in the back end of rounds, hoping they draft a complimentary player for their established core.