Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[Alklha]

God, can you imagine if we lose Brodziak too?

At this point it would be a shock if he was back. For the type of contract he can likely get, I'm fine letting him walk. I suspect he'll take less to be where he wants.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

God, can you imagine if we lose Brodziak too?

It will hurt but at this point, Brodziak has earned that. I would love to have him back but I don't mind if he goes either. Guys like Barbashev, Sundqvist, Jaskin, Soshnikov, Sobotka (if he's still here) can all fill in the 4th line. Not to mention if Foley or Nolan Stevens push for a spot as well.

 

[Brian39]

I love Brodz, but I don't expect him back. I think he'll get somewhere between $2.5 and $3 mil AAV on a 2 year deal and I don't think we're willing to pay that. Frankly, I think Barby is on track to be our 4C and we will have a young 4th line. I don't think Barby should be in our top 9 at the moment, he's no longer waivers exempt and being a consistent healthy scratch isn't doing him any good. With Foley, Barby, Sosh, Sanford and Sundqvist in the prospect/young pro system plus Jaskin/Thorburn, it is hard to justify $2.5 mil for a 4th liner. I certainly don't think penciling him into our top 9 for two years is the correct move.

I'm not happy to see him go, but I think he priced himself off our team.

 

[tfriede2]

Sundqvist is fine as a pressbox guy, but if he were to actually replace Brodziak on the 4th line (which nobody here is advocating), that would be a very significant decrease in offense. Barbashev seems like a good replacement, though. This is where our overload on 3/4th liners comes in handy!

 

[Majorityof1]

Does anyone feel like none of our recent players want to return here? That is very different from the history where players really want to come back after spending time in St. Louis and with the Blues, even in front office jobs. We are pursuing Reaves, Stastny,Hutton and Brodziak. None of which are rumored to have us very high on their respective lists. Most likely, they have just priced themselves out of what we are willing to pay for their role with us. Does anyone think this may be some evidence of some truth to the "locker-room issues" speculation? I hate to give fuel to that contingent of our board. However, it makes me nervous for some very important free-agents coming up in the next few years.

 

[Mike Liut]

Does anyone feel like none of our recent players want to return here? That is very different from the history where players really want to come back after spending time in St. Louis and with the Blues, even in front office jobs. We are pursuing Reaves, Stastny,Hutton and Brodziak. None of which are rumored to have us very high on their respective lists. Most likely, they have just priced themselves out of what we are willing to pay for their role with us. Does anyone think this may be some evidence of some truth to the "locker-room issues" speculation? I hate to give fuel to that contingent of our board. However, it makes me nervous for some very important free-agents coming up in the next few years.

I think its because the Blues have so many good players nearly ready that they dont need those 3rd and 4th liner types anymore. Hell, id rather have Foley, Thompson, Stevens, Sanford, Barbashev, Fabbri, Steen and Berglund there than waste money on Broz and Reaves (even though I like them both). Its just a financial decision.

 

[Majorityof1]

I think its because the Blues have so many good players nearly ready that they dont need those 3rd and 4th liner types anymore. Hell, id rather have Foley, Thompson, Stevens, Sanford, Barbashev, Fabbri, Steen and Berglund there than waste money on Broz and Reaves (even though I like them both). Its just a financial decision.

True. But Stastny and Hutton are absolute needs. hutton will get a huge raise, but doable since we aren't signing a big fish. We should be willing to pay for Stastny, who will probably sign for less than what we were paying him. I argue that Brodziak is a big need. He played up in a 2nd line C role and did better than any of the people you mentioned. That great versatility from a 4th liner. Plus, our PK is going to suck so hard without him and Upshall as well.

 

[DatDude44]

Sundqvist is fine as a pressbox guy, but if he were to actually replace Brodziak on the 4th line (which nobody here is advocating), that would be a very significant decrease in offense. Barbashev seems like a good replacement, though. This is where our overload on 3/4th liners comes in handy!

Man I really can’t wait for Sundqvist to prove a lot of people wrong. I think he has a lot more to show for than what his point total indicated last year. It seemed like every shift last year he did all the little things right. Every puck got out of the zone, he won a lot more 50/50 pucks than he lost and he seemed to always make the right positive impact play constantly and he was starting to create more and more offensive opportunities. Obviously I’d have to check the analytics but it seemed like every shift his line would come off the ice they resulted in an o-zone draw for the next line.

I really like the brand of center he plays in the bottom 6, Good positionally, good defensive stick etc... I think he’s a guy that could for lack of a better term “breakout” next year.

And yes I know I’m alone in the support of him, but hey, we were the best team in the NHL when he was our 3C......then Berglund had to come back :/

 

[Brian39]

True. But Stastny and Hutton are absolute needs. hutton will get a huge raise, but doable since we aren't signing a big fish. We should be willing to pay for Stastny, who will probably sign for less than what we were paying him. I argue that Brodziak is a big need. He played up in a 2nd line C role and did better than any of the people you mentioned. That great versatility from a 4th liner. Plus, our PK is going to suck so hard without him and Upshall as well.

Hutton is 100% circumstance. He is the 1A in Buffalo to start camp with a decent chance at being the legit starter (Ullmark is a nice young goalie, but he has 6 NHL games over the past 2 years). Best case scenario here, he starts as the 1B and has a chance at becoming the 1A (but that is contingent on Allen's play more than his). Buffalo will give him more money (and likely term) than we would be willing to given his potential role on each team. Going to Buffalo is a no-brainer for Hutton, even if he was best friends with every single player in the Blues locker room and fell in love with the city while he was here.

With Stastny, he just went to a Conference Final and got to play in a much more offensive role than he did here. He's had to listen to fans/media lament how 'we didn't get the player you expect for $7 mil a year' for at least 3 year of his years here and he found more chemistry with Laine than he did Tarasenko. To me, I think his desire to stay in Winnipeg is much more about how well things went for them there than a distaste towards our organization. Things didn't go the way he expected in St. Louis, but I don't get the impression that there are hard feelings.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

True. But Stastny and Hutton are absolute needs. hutton will get a huge raise, but doable since we aren't signing a big fish. We should be willing to pay for Stastny, who will probably sign for less than what we were paying him. I argue that Brodziak is a big need. He played up in a 2nd line C role and did better than any of the people you mentioned. That great versatility from a 4th liner. Plus, our PK is going to suck so hard without him and Upshall as well.

Stastny seems to be searching for his best chance to go win and hasn't dismissed signing with the Blues. Hutton is wanting to be a #1 netminder even though he's never really done it before. He really won't get that opportunity here with Jake in his way, plus I think Army, despite what he's saying, wants to see if Husso can push for a spot and eventually push Allen.

Brodziak and Upshall will definitely be missed here, especially on PK. However, I think the younger guys like Barbashev, Soshnikov, Jaskin, etc could add a different, slightly more skilled side to our bottom 6 and PK. It may take a dip but with our defense being what it is, I think they can be brought along.

 

[The Note]

Does anyone feel like none of our recent players want to return here? That is very different from the history where players really want to come back after spending time in St. Louis and with the Blues, even in front office jobs. We are pursuing Reaves, Stastny,Hutton and Brodziak. None of which are rumored to have us very high on their respective lists. Most likely, they have just priced themselves out of what we are willing to pay for their role with us. Does anyone think this may be some evidence of some truth to the "locker-room issues" speculation? I hate to give fuel to that contingent of our board. However, it makes me nervous for some very important free-agents coming up in the next few years.

I see what you’re saying, but each of those guys have pretty easily spotted reasons not to return (I think a lot of it does have to do with pricing themselves out, to be fair.) Brodziak had a good year and is rumored to be going up to Edmonton. He’s from Alberta, the Oilers drafted him, and so it would make sense for him to go “home.” Stastny is in a good spot where he clicked well and is probably moving into the cup-chasing portion of his career, and Winnipeg is undoubtedly closer to that than the Blues as things stand today. They can also afford to give him a competitive offer. Hutton I would chalk up to -again in addition to a pay day- chasing an opportunity. It seems like he’d be the opening day starter in Buffalo, can’t fault him there. At the end of the day while it would be nice to have these guys back I can’t imagine Armstrong is trying to blow the doors off these guys. If we start losing core guys like Petro and Schenn after making strong pitches to them, then I’ll be concerned.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Quick question, but I'm seeing that the Blues twitter is pretty much headlining Thomas and Kyrou in all of their bits they are doing. This is actually putting me at ease a bit about thinking that Kyrou could be involved in an ROR deal. Am I wrong for thinking that this is probably a good hint that they are pretty much 100% on keeping them (at this point in time I understand that if a trade that is too good to be true is thrown at you you make it) or am I just looking in to things a little bit too much.

Does anyone feel like none of our recent players want to return here? That is very different from the history where players really want to come back after spending time in St. Louis and with the Blues, even in front office jobs. We are pursuing Reaves, Stastny,Hutton and Brodziak. None of which are rumored to have us very high on their respective lists. Most likely, they have just priced themselves out of what we are willing to pay for their role with us. Does anyone think this may be some evidence of some truth to the "locker-room issues" speculation? I hate to give fuel to that contingent of our board. However, it makes me nervous for some very important free-agents coming up in the next few years.

I think it's just speculation honestly. Hard to get a serious feel until they start discussing dollar amounts. I also feel like DA refrained from offering too many contracts to guys we had control of already with the Tavares sweepstakes looming. I think it will be much easier to get a better feel for the whole situation once Tavares hopefully re-signs, or comes here.

 

[pawnjohn]

I think it is definitely something to keep an eye on, but I think there are other factors that play a bigger factor. I think a lot of these signing hinge more on term vs dollar amount, similar to Backes.

Hutton is looking for 3 years and also wants to be the guy somewhere, so unless we were going to move Allen I don't think he would re-sign unless we paid him a good amount more than what he is getting on the market.

Brodziak is probably looking for a multi-year deal that could be paying him until he is 37+.

Reaves is looking for multi-year deal as well.

Stastny is the interesting one since he may decide to cup chase in Winnipeg or go back to Colorado/St. Louis where he can get more $$ or term. It will be interesting to see if Army draws a line on term like he did with Backes.

Between the upcoming youth/Petro & Schenn extensions next year/possible expansion draft looming, Army may have specific price/term on these free agents that he isn't willing to budge on that is what is causing them to not return vs them personally deciding to choose somewhere else.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Hutton isn’t coming back to St Louis because of years. We could afford to give him $$, but he wants the 3rd year. We don’t want to give it to him, nor should we.

We could afford to pay Brodziak what he’s worth too. But we don’t want to go to the term he wants/deserves.

Part of getting younger is not giving long contracts to 30+ y.o. players. That’s it. That’s all there is to it. It isn’t about locker room drama, it isn’t about them “not wanting” to play here. It’s business, and that’s it.

We will sign players over the weekend/next week and be totally fine. Everybody relax

 

[Majorityof1]

Hutton isn’t coming back to St Louis because of years. We could afford to give him $$, but he wants the 3rd year. We don’t want to give it to him, nor should we.

We could afford to pay Brodziak what he’s worth too. But we don’t want to go to the term he wants/deserves.

Part of getting younger is not giving long contracts to 30+ y.o. players. That’s it. That’s all there is to it. It isn’t about locker room drama, it isn’t about them “not wanting” to play here. It’s business, and that’s it.

We will sign players over the weekend/next week and be totally fine. Everybody relax

I don't think its time to panic, and apologize if it came out that way. Each one when looked at individually can be explained away. But when looking at multiple ones, it becomes a pattern. I don't think its near there yet, but it is something to monitor.

As for signing a few people and being fine, well, F@!$ fine. I don't want the team to be fine. I want the team to be great, exciting, a favorite, but not fine. Even young teams have vets to bring the youngsters along, otherwise you are Edmonton.

 

[simon IC]

What about our PK if Brodziak leaves? It was already sub-par by my standards last year. We really need a strong defensive forward who can PK more than ever. I'm worried.

 

[Brian39]

What about our PK if Brodziak leaves? It was already sub-par by my standards last year. We really need a strong defensive forward who can PK more than ever. I'm worried.

If you believe the rumors, it we are somewhere between serious talks about ROR or having a deal in place. He'd probably see hefty PK minutes is he came here. If they are still here, I see Sobotka/Bergie getting more PK responsibility (especially Sobotka) and the only way Sundqvist has an NHL job is if he can get a bit better on the PK. Jaskin makes sense for some increased PK time and Steen will probably continue getting shifts on the PK. I'd imagine that Foley/Sanford/Blais only have a real shot at making the team if they can demonstrate some PK ability and if all else fails, 4th line PK specialists can be found in UFA for about half the price that Brodz will demand.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Hutton, Reaves, Brodziak, Stastny - doesn't look like any of these guys will be back. Blue's choice, player's choice or mutual?

 

[Shwabeal]

I'd love to have any of those guys back on the team, but as others have mentioned, it's the term that is the problem. There's plenty of times we've all complained in the past few years about DA overpaying for bottom 6 players in both term and dollars. I think signing any of those guys would just give us more reason to complain when those deals don't look so hot 2-3 years down the road. If Armstrong is going into these discussions with a dollar amount and length of contract that he is comfortable with and he gets outbid by another team on either of those, I think it's a sign that he's starting to see that those types of signings to fill in the bottom of the roster are ill-advised. If anything, I think it's a step in the right direction when it comes to how he is allocating resources to maximize the roster.

 

[BlueDream]

Does anyone feel like none of our recent players want to return here? That is very different from the history where players really want to come back after spending time in St. Louis and with the Blues, even in front office jobs. We are pursuing Reaves, Stastny,Hutton and Brodziak. None of which are rumored to have us very high on their respective lists. Most likely, they have just priced themselves out of what we are willing to pay for their role with us. Does anyone think this may be some evidence of some truth to the "locker-room issues" speculation? I hate to give fuel to that contingent of our board. However, it makes me nervous for some very important free-agents coming up in the next few years.

Not at all. You are looking at guys who are all nearing their mid-30s, some of which just had career years. This is their opportunity to cash in. They likely won’t get this chance again.

And by the way, they did all have interest in returning. This “locker room issues” stuff is BS.

I can almost guarantee none of them will be worth the contract they get. Especially career backup Hutton. I liked Brodz but this isn’t a big deal - we have bigger needs to spend our money on.

 

[Splatter]

Not at all. You are looking at guys who are all nearing their mid-30s, some of which just had career years. This is their opportunity to cash in. They likely won’t get this chance again.

Exactly. Guys like Reaves, Brodziak, and Hutton have not had particularly great paying careers for NHLers. Long term contracts for guys like them are rare too. They're going to do what's best for them. It's probably nothing against St. Louis or the organization.

 

[Girth Butcher]

I am of the belief that, historically, the Blues have built rosters with too much 3rd/4th line skill sets. We all loved Sobotka (version 1.0) being able to move up and down the line up. Same thing for Brodziak last year, but that was out of necessity as we had no other options once Stastny was moved. I think the Blues problems have been a lack of #1c, and diversified scoring, so giving playing time to 3/4 liners will never fix that issue.

I would welcome seeing a young, fast, high-pressure 3rd/4th line strategy that can provide incremental offense. Recently, that has been a black hole of offensive opportunity.

I remember Jacque Demers playing A young Doug Gilmour on the 3rd line and shadowing the other teams top players. Jacque would say that seeing how those players work without the puck, would make Gilmour a longer-term offensive weapon.

I’d rather see Thomas have to match up against Toews, Schiefele, Seguin, McKinnon, Koivu, and really learn the secrets of being a dominant 2-way player.

 

[BlueDream]

I am of the belief that, historically, the Blues have built rosters with too much 3rd/4th line skill sets. We all loved Sobotka (version 1.0) being able to move up and down the line up. Same thing for Brodziak last year, but that was out of necessity as we had no other options once Stastny was moved. I think the Blues problems have been a lack of #1c, and diversified scoring, so giving playing time to 3/4 liners will never fix that issue.

I would welcome seeing a young, fast, high-pressure 3rd/4th line strategy that can provide incremental offense. Recently, that has been a black hole of offensive opportunity.

I remember Jacque Demers playing A young Doug Gilmour on the 3rd line and shadowing the other teams top players. Jacque would say that seeing how those players work without the puck, would make Gilmour a longer-term offensive weapon.

I’d rather see Thomas have to match up against Toews, Schiefele, Seguin, McKinnon, Koivu, and really learn the secrets of being a dominant 2-way player.

Yup. I don't quite understand the hysteria about Brodziak leaving. Yes I liked the guy but if he were open to signing for no more than 1.5 mil per year, he'd still be here. I think it's quite obvious that he's looking for more and sorry but he's just not worth 2 million. Paying a 4th liner that is rarely a smart move...

We have bigger issues to worry about. We need more skill, and top 6 help. And that seems to be where Armstrong's focus is, and rightfully so.

We have young guys (Barbashev, Jaskin, Soshnikov) that are more than fine in a 4th line role.

Brodziak is 34. He's slow. I have no problem with getting younger and faster.

 

[simon IC]

Yup. I don't quite understand the hysteria about Brodziak leaving. Yes I liked the guy but if he were open to signing for no more than 1.5 mil per year, he'd still be here. I think it's quite obvious that he's looking for more and sorry but he's just not worth 2 million. Paying a 4th liner that is rarely a smart move...

We have bigger issues to worry about. We need more skill, and top 6 help. And that seems to be where Armstrong's focus is, and rightfully so.

We have young guys (Barbashev, Jaskin, Soshnikov) that are more than fine in a 4th line role.

Brodziak is 34. He's slow. I have no problem with getting younger and faster.

I want to get younger and faster too, but not at the expense of team defense. Brodziak is excellent defensively, an excellent "PKer", and I don't think he will be as easily replaced as some seem to think. (He also isn't that slow!). The "younger, faster" guys need to be defensively proficient. I am not convinced that many of our prospects are ready to step in and handle the assignments that Brodz was given and be as successful as Kyle was.

 

[TruBlu]

Yup. I don't quite understand the hysteria about Brodziak leaving. Yes I liked the guy but if he were open to signing for no more than 1.5 mil per year, he'd still be here. I think it's quite obvious that he's looking for more and sorry but he's just not worth 2 million. Paying a 4th liner that is rarely a smart move...

We have bigger issues to worry about. We need more skill, and top 6 help. And that seems to be where Armstrong's focus is, and rightfully so.

We have young guys (Barbashev, Jaskin, Soshnikov) that are more than fine in a 4th line role.

Brodziak is 34. He's slow. I have no problem with getting younger and faster.

That sounds like what is happening. He produces more scoring output than a typical 4th liner, and he's very solid in just about every other area of the ice, but that doesn't mean we can keep him. We have a large group of young prospects knocking at the door. I think the transition is starting this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see two prospects make the team right out of camp.