Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[EastonBlues22]

I don't understand the logic that removing Sobotka or Berglund and adding Maroon makes this team any better.

And I'm not necessarily against signing Maroon, our cap situation is stable enough for the next 3 years that it won't stop us from acquiring O'Reilly or another big $$$ player.

It might be a lateral move in terms of talent, but that doesn't mean the Blues couldn't come out the other side a (marginally) better team.

I'd easily take Maroon over last year's version of Sobotka, and Maroon isn't exactly the prototype for my preferred style of play.

 

[Brian39]

I would say Berglund > Maroon > Sobotka. All three would be a disaster. If I get to choose one, it's Berglund.

That is my opinion as well, but there is a case to be made that Maroon is the best of the three. He had 36 even strength points in each of the last 2 seasons and 40 of those 72 points were goals. Bergie had 26 even strength points in his last full season. He was on pace for 27 last year and 22 in 2015/16. I think Maroon's numbers were inflated by McDavid, although 13 points in 17 games with the Devils merits some optimism. Still, even considering the McDavid bump, there is a big gap between those numbers. I think his net front presence could be more helpful to our PP than Bergie's shot, so there is an argument to be made that Maroon would be a slight upgrade over Bergie.

With all that said, Maroon isn't a top tier player and is going to get overpaid. I'm only interested if he takes a steep cut from market value to play here.

 

[David Dennison]

It might be a lateral move in terms of talent, but that doesn't mean the Blues couldn't come out the other side a (marginally) better team.

I'd easily take Maroon over last year's version of Sobotka, and Maroon isn't exactly the prototype for my preferred style of play.

Its not like Maroon exactly set the world on fire last year either, I think 'easily' taking one over the other is hyperbole. Maroon might add some physicality and net front presence that we are lacking, but he is heading into his 30s and is already slow as molasses in a league where speed is more and more important. Not to mention Maroon will probably require a 3 year deal, whereas Sobotka we have for only two more years. Outside of Edmonton, Maroon only has 29 goals in 221 games. The downside is much greater with Maroon, IMO.

 

[pricer502]

My prediction for opening day roster. This assumes Bergy, Sobotka, Thompson are traded and Hutton and Brodziak cannot be resigned.

Schwartz - Schenn- Tank
JVR - ROR - Maroon
Fabbri - Thomas - Steen
Soshkinov - Barbashev- Jaskin
ED - Petro
Dunn - Parayko
J Bow - Gunnar
Allen - Lehner

Obviously lines can be mix matched based on LW/RW preference and line mate preference but I could live with this and see this team being contender. I really like Lehner and would trust him if Allen gets hurt or loses confidence. Maroon adds the toughness we lost with reaves and Backes. The cap can possibly work especially if we could find a way to move JBow or Gunnar or go with cheaper backup goalie.

 

[Spektre]

Strickland tweeted this today:

#stlblues are one of a handful of teams in the mix for Paul Stastny. Told there’s mutual interest from both sides . Door is wide open


I didn’t see it anywhere here. If the Blues trade for ROR I don’t see where Stastny fits.

 

[mk80]

Strickland tweeted this today:

#stlblues are one of a handful of teams in the mix for Paul Stastny. Told there’s mutual interest from both sides . Door is wide open


I didn’t see it anywhere here. If the Blues trade for ROR I don’t see where Stastny fits.

My guess is he is the backup plan if we can't work out a deal for ROR.

 

[WeWentBlues]

My guess is he is the backup plan if we can't work out a deal for ROR.

Hopefully it's the other way around.

 

[Spektre]

My guess is he is the backup plan if we can't work out a deal for ROR.

I’m not sure Army will have that kind of time. If there’s a plausible deal with ROR, why pursue Stastny? By now Army should know what it will cost for ROR and what he’s willing to pay. I don’t see how that could substantially change between now and the 1st.

It seems odd to me.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I’m not sure Army will have that kind of time. If there’s a plausible deal with ROR, why pursue Stastny? By now Army should know what it will cost for ROR and what he’s willing to pay. I don’t see how that could substantially change between now and the 1st.

It seems odd to me.

Maybe the ROR deal is happening after July 1 pending what happens in free agency. Guess we will see what happens on Sunday.

 

[mk80]

I’m not sure Army will have that kind of time. If there’s a plausible deal with ROR, why pursue Stastny? By now Army should know what it will cost for ROR and what he’s willing to pay. I don’t see how that could substantially change between now and the 1st.

It seems odd to me.

I think Buffalo is comfortable hanging onto ROR and paying his bonus and waiting until JT is signed, then seeing if they can get a bit better offers from everyone who missed out on that sweepstakes. That's the only reason I could see the cost changing.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

ROR >> Stastny, barring us actually getting a great RHS for Stastny to produce.

 

[Novacain]

ROR >> Stastny, barring us actually getting a great RHS for Stastny to produce.

The question isn't if ROR is better then Stastny, it's if giving up assets like Kyrou to get ROR is worth just paying cash for Stastny.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

The question isn't if ROR is better then Stastny, it's if giving up assets like Kyrou to get ROR is worth just paying cash for Stastny.

That was both skills and preference. Who knows if Kyrou is even going to have to be in the deal. We’d have to pay assets to acquire a legit RHS RW so Stastny can even be worth his money he’ll get.

 

[Novacain]

That was both skills and preference. Who knows if Kyrou is even going to have to be in the deal. We’d have to pay assets to acquire a legit RHS RW so Stastny can even be worth his money he’ll get.

Or Kyrou could become that legit RHS RW. Also, we still need to pay assets for a RHS RW anyway, since we'd still lack that either way, and if we have to give Buffalo Kyrou (And I wouldn't do the trade if I were them if Kyrou were not involved), we just traded by far our best home grown version of that player.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Or Kyrou could become that legit RHS RW. Also, we still need to pay assets for a RHS RW anyway, since we'd still lack that either way, and if we have to give Buffalo Kyrou (And I wouldn't do the trade if I were them if Kyrou were not involved), we just traded by far our best home grown version of that player.

Personally, I view Kyrou as more of a playmaker, fitting in better with Schwartz and Schenn.

Stastny would fit more with Thompson if we’re basing it just off of our prospects, but he’s my preferred prospect to trade for ROR.

 

[Novacain]

Personally, I view Kyrou as more of a playmaker, fitting in better with Schwartz and Schenn.

Stastny would fit more with Thompson if we’re basing it just off of our prospects, but he’s my preferred prospect to trade for ROR.

I view Kyrou as a pretty complete offensive player in general. His shot isn't elite, but it's good, and his general puck skills are outstanding. I could see him working well with almost any center, but Stastny would be a decent fit.

Basically, if we can get O'Reilly for things that aren't Kyrou, I'm open to it. I just don't see how another team couldn't beat that offer if we don't involve either of our big 2.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I view Kyrou as a pretty complete offensive player in general. His shot isn't elite, but it's good, and his general puck skills are outstanding. I could see him working well with almost any center, but Stastny would be a decent fit.

Basically, if we can get O'Reilly for things that aren't Kyrou, I'm open to it. I just don't see how another team couldn't beat that offer if we don't involve either of our big 2.

I feel that. I just think we kinda undervalue Thompson because of Kyrou/Thomas, but him, Sobotka, a 1st, and a 2nd is still a very solid haul. More than what we gave up for Schenn.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

The more and more I think of the free agent and trade possibilities, the more I wonder about how this team would shake out. We all believe Thomas is a lock to make this team, whether 3C or RW some where. I truly believe Armstrong wants him to remain a center and I hope he's conveyed and expressed that to Yeo.

The "kids" aren't going to have room on this roster to beat anyone out outside of Thomas unless one of the current forwards is moved out in trade.

The way I see it, you have Tarasenko, Schwartz, Schenn, Sobotka, Berglund, Steen, Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Barbashev, Soshnikov, Sundqvist, Fabbri, Jaskin, Sanford, and Thorburn competing for 14 forward spots, if the Blues decide to keep two extra forwards. That's 16 forwards already. I will premise that with Jaskin, Fabbri, and Sundqvist not having a full contract yet, but qualifying offers, and that Kostin, Foley, or another surprise prospect could compete.

I truthfully feel that Armstrong needs to clear some of that clutter by making a trade, maybe even multiple trades. To me, that will push this team in a different direction better than signing a couple free agents. I'm leery of more of the same, i.e. bringing back Brodziak and Stastny and calling it a day.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

That is my opinion as well, but there is a case to be made that Maroon is the best of the three. He had 36 even strength points in each of the last 2 seasons and 40 of those 72 points were goals. Bergie had 26 even strength points in his last full season. He was on pace for 27 last year and 22 in 2015/16. I think Maroon's numbers were inflated by McDavid, although 13 points in 17 games with the Devils merits some optimism. Still, even considering the McDavid bump, there is a big gap between those numbers. I think his net front presence could be more helpful to our PP than Bergie's shot, so there is an argument to be made that Maroon would be a slight upgrade over Bergie.

With all that said, Maroon isn't a top tier player and is going to get overpaid. I'm only interested if he takes a steep cut from market value to play here.

I agree with this, I like Maroon more as a player for the Blues for one reason, unlike either Sobe or Bergie, Maroon seems to understand his limitations and go the the dirty areas, I am so sick of watching lower skilled players on the Blues circle away from the net, From the 20ish games I have watched from Maroon he seems to crash the net and battle. But the bolded is the most important thing, we simply cannot over pay for him.

 

[MissouriMook]

I feel that. I just think we kinda undervalue Thompson because of Kyrou/Thomas, but him, Sobotka, a 1st, and a 2nd is still a very solid haul. More than what we gave up for Schenn.

Some comments from Sabres posters over the last couple of days suggests that the price for ROR is a 1st, a 2nd and a good prospect. Context was also added by a couple of people that the term "good prospect" is fluid, and that Botterill probably has 1 or 2 guys that he would be fixated on as the type of player he wanted to bring in. It was also mentioned that they were very high on Brady Tkachuk, so it is very possible that he would want someone with size and skill like Thompson or Kostin as the prospect. Either that, or I'm just really that desperate to bring in ROR without losing Thomas or Kyrou.

 

[Xanadude]

Some comments from Sabres posters over the last couple of days suggests that the price for ROR is a 1st, a 2nd and a good prospect. Context was also added by a couple of people that the term "good prospect" is fluid, and that Botterill probably has 1 or 2 guys that he would be fixated on as the type of player he wanted to bring in. It was also mentioned that they were very high on Brady Tkachuk, so it is very possible that he would want someone with size and skill like Thompson or Kostin as the prospect. Either that, or I'm just really that desperate to bring in ROR without losing Thomas or Kyrou.

Buffalo posters also said that Botterill prefers the NCAA development method which Thompson went through. I like Thompson a lot, but IMO he's the best case scenario in terms of prospects to give up. Additionally, the Buffalo beat guy tweeted 'roster players over picks' a few times. That may have been in reference to the Sheary trade, but maybe that refers to Thompson's NHL readiness? A man can dream.

 

[Alklha]

Buffalo posters also said that Botterill prefers the NCAA development method which Thompson went through. I like Thompson a lot, but IMO he's the best case scenario in terms of prospects to give up. Additionally, the Buffalo beat guy tweeted 'roster players over picks' a few times. That may have been in reference to the Sheary trade, but maybe that refers to Thompson's NHL readiness? A man can dream.

Berglund, Thompson & Walman?

 

[Xanadude]

Berglund, Thompson & Walman?

Talk about a best case scenario. Pleeeease.

 

[Brian39]

The more and more I think of the free agent and trade possibilities, the more I wonder about how this team would shake out. We all believe Thomas is a lock to make this team, whether 3C or RW some where. I truly believe Armstrong wants him to remain a center and I hope he's conveyed and expressed that to Yeo.

The "kids" aren't going to have room on this roster to beat anyone out outside of Thomas unless one of the current forwards is moved out in trade.

The way I see it, you have Tarasenko, Schwartz, Schenn, Sobotka, Berglund, Steen, Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Barbashev, Soshnikov, Sundqvist, Fabbri, Jaskin, Sanford, and Thorburn competing for 14 forward spots, if the Blues decide to keep two extra forwards. That's 16 forwards already. I will premise that with Jaskin, Fabbri, and Sundqvist not having a full contract yet, but qualifying offers, and that Kostin, Foley, or another surprise prospect could compete.

I truthfully feel that Armstrong needs to clear some of that clutter by making a trade, maybe even multiple trades. To me, that will push this team in a different direction better than signing a couple free agents. I'm leery of more of the same, i.e. bringing back Brodziak and Stastny and calling it a day.

I think that at least one of Bergie/Sobotka (likely Sobotka) will be moved once we acquire outside help. However, it doesn't make tons of sense to move either before other trades/signings are made for a couple reasons. First, they may have value to a trade partner. They are both decent middle 6 players that can be relied on to cover up some defensive issues. That has value to a young team like Buffalo. If you retain salary on Sobotka, he's not a bad option to fill a hole on Tampa if they're a trade partner. They won't be the centerpiece of a trade, but could very well add value to our package, so it makes sense to hold onto them until you know whether or not they might be included in a trade. Barring a surprise, cap space shouldn't be an issue for us in the next two years. We set ourselves up to take on an $11+ mil contract which isn't happening. Even if we get ROR, that's $3.5-$4.5 mil under the Tavares budget. Fabbri and Ed our the only decent raises owed to guys over the next 2 years, so retaining half of Sobotka's salary is entirely doable. Sobotka at $1.75 mil is suddenly a very appealing asset. I'd wager that ownership could stomache retaining 50% of Sobotka's salary if Buffalo covered ROR's bonus and we only had to pay him $1 mil this year.

Second, they are only truly expendable once we bring in an outside piece or two. You're correct that we have 16 guys competing, but there is no way that all of the prospects are able to adequately contribute. If all of those guys are making the team, the summer has gone horribly wrong. If we don't get any offseason acquisitions, we need Bergie/Sobotka eating up some roster spots.

Schwartz-Schenn-?????
?????-?????-Tarasenko
?????-?????-??????
?????-??????-??????

Filling all 9 of those question marks with a combo of Fabbri, Steen, Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, Foley, Sanford, Jaskin, Sundqvist, Soshnikov, Barby, Blais and Thorburn is not acceptable. Absolute best case scenario, 5 guys in that group are adequate top 9 NHL players. And that's assuming Fabbri recovers into a 3rd line player, Thomas/Kyrou are both legitimate top 9 players straight out of junior and someone else takes a giant step forward. Even then, we would have an average to below average 2nd line and below average 3rd line. Worst case scenario, only 2 or 3 of those guys are top 9 caliber and our forward group is a complete dumpster fire. I'm not advocating that Bergie/Sobotka are ideal fits there, but if the summer goes terrribly, our top 9 needs at least one and probably both of them. Like I said; I fully expect at least one to be moved, but it should be as part of a trade for outside help or a separate trade after we acquire outside help.

 

[Chojin]

God, can you imagine if we lose Brodziak too?