Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

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Celtic Note

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We don't necessarily have to play whoever we acquire. We could have them sit in the presbox or ride the bus. I think it is more about getting assets for the cap space then the player.
Will our front office be willing to pay players not to play?

I totally agree with weaponizing cap space. I personally would be fairly aggressive with it. But looking at where we are today and how we have operated, I question how aggressive we would be with that.
 
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Spektre

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Will our front office be willing to pay players not to play?

I totally agree with weaponizing cap space. I personally would be fairly aggressive with it. But looking at where we are today and how we have operated, I question how aggressive we would be with that.

I don't see Army utilizing cap space the way true tanking teams have. He's too focused on competing with a few other teams on missing the playoffs the bestest.
 

BleedBlue14

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Will our front office be willing to pay players not to play?

I totally agree with weaponizing cap space. I personally would be fairly aggressive with it. But looking at where we are today and how we have operated, I question how aggressive we would be with that.

Brings me back to the quote from army in regards to buyouts. Where he said something along the lines of the buyout feeling like just lighting money on fire.

With as many recent draft picks as we’ve had, I could see where using the cap space for mid round picks etc would feel similar.
 

MissouriMook

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Brings me back to the quote from army in regards to buyouts. Where he said something along the lines of the buyout feeling like just lighting money on fire.

With as many recent draft picks as we’ve had, I could see where using the cap space for mid round picks etc would feel similar.
I have never understood this position. If a player is having a negative impact on your team's results, paying him less than he is owed to stop doing that seems like a good investment, unless you believe the drag on your team from his play is temporary. Spending the money and cap space on someone else instead of elevating another player you are already paying is an entirely separate discussion. Paying the player the full amount of his contract while he is measurably making your team worse (in the hypothetical sense) would be closer to lighting money on fire in that you're paying him more than you have to and he's damaging your results.
 

Majorityof1

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I have never understood this position. If a player is having a negative impact on your team's results, paying him less than he is owed to stop doing that seems like a good investment, unless you believe the drag on your team from his play is temporary. Spending the money and cap space on someone else instead of elevating another player you are already paying is an entirely separate discussion. Paying the player the full amount of his contract while he is measurably making your team worse (in the hypothetical sense) would be closer to lighting money on fire in that you're paying him more than you have to and he's damaging your results.

It's a prime example of sunk cost fallacy. It's a common enough line of thought it has its own fallacy. I agree with you. I don't want a buyout for us because we don't need the cap space now, but we might down the road. So I don't want to extend the duration. But the money was set on fire as soon as you signed the bad contract.
 

Xerloris

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If we pick up these players, where do they fit on the roster and who do they displace? We have plenty of guys that need playing time to develop. If we hadn’t filled up the roster with such a significant amount of filler, I would have agreed. But given where we are, I think that boat passed for this season.

You can be a 3rd party team that acts as a stand in just to retain salary that allows a deal to work and in exchange you get stuff in return, usually draft picks.
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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Armstrong has already said that they were wiling to be creative in taking back salary when exploring the Buchnevich contract trade market. I don’t see why that would have changed, and they’ve even cultivated more cap space in the meantime.

I think he’d take a bad contract plus assets, but not a very long deal. Ironically, a contract like Krug’s is exactly what the Blues would take, if you incentivize it with some positive value asset.
 

SirPaste

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You can be a 3rd party team that acts as a stand in just to retain salary that allows a deal to work and in exchange you get stuff in return, usually draft picks.
Yep happens often enough, if we can get a 2nd/3rd round pick or something at the deadline to eat some cap for the rest of the season so a team in a cap crunch can fit a new player, Army should absolutely be doing that
 

Reality Czech

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I have never understood this position. If a player is having a negative impact on your team's results, paying him less than he is owed to stop doing that seems like a good investment, unless you believe the drag on your team from his play is temporary. Spending the money and cap space on someone else instead of elevating another player you are already paying is an entirely separate discussion. Paying the player the full amount of his contract while he is measurably making your team worse (in the hypothetical sense) would be closer to lighting money on fire in that you're paying him more than you have to and he's damaging your results.

That may be true but if people are talking about Krug, then he isn't THAT bad to justify paying him not to play. Each circumstance is different I suppose. With Hayes I guess they could have bought him out but I'm guessing management preferred to pay the second round pick rather than however many millions it would have taken to buy him out. Some owners have deep pockets and have no problem paying millions to make a problem go away but not sure Blues ownership is in that group.
 
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Eldon Reid

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Yep happens often enough, if we can get a 2nd/3rd round pick or something at the deadline to eat some cap for the rest of the season so a team in a cap crunch can fit a new player, Army should absolutely be doing that

100% agree. This is the best thing to do at this deadline if we are where we are in the playoff hunt.

If you can get several mid round draft picks for retaining a little salary, it is smart assessment management because it can give you extra picks to boost prospect pool, extra picks to dump players you don't want, or picks to pick up other players.


Honestly I may be in the minority but I really like what the Army did this off-season.
 
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Celtic Note

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That may be true but if people are talking about Krug, then he isn't THAT bad to justify paying him not to play. Each circumstance is different I suppose. With Hayes I guess they could have bought him out but I'm guessing management preferred to pay the second round pick rather than however many millions it would have taken to buy him out. Some owners have deep pockets and have no problem paying millions to make a problem go away but not sure Blues ownership is in that group.
I would have bought the “our owners don’t have deep pockets argument” if we didn’t go on to spend all the savings from removing Hayes on other players. If they needed that money so badly, they wouldn’t have turned around and spent it.

Yep happens often enough, if we can get a 2nd/3rd round pick or something at the deadline to eat some cap for the rest of the season so a team in a cap crunch can fit a new player, Army should absolutely be doing that
Those trades range from a 3rd to a 5th, with most in the 4th to 5th range on middle cost players. I will take the extra picks, but the 1st and 2nd are where you find most players and after the 3rd you are in the lottery ticket range.
 

Reality Czech

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I would have bought the “our owners don’t have deep pockets argument” if we didn’t go on to spend all the savings from removing Hayes on other players. If they needed that money so badly, they wouldn’t have turned around and spent it.


Those trades range from a 3rd to a 5th, with most in the 4th to 5th range on middle cost players. I will take the extra picks, but the 1st and 2nd are where you find most players and after the 3rd you are in the lottery ticket range.

Obviously deep pockets is a relative term. Any sports owner is filthy rich, but clearly they preferred to spend a 2nd round pick making Hayes go away rather than buying him out. I'm not saying they "need" money but rather they don't wanna pay a guy not to play for us.
 

SirPaste

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I would have bought the “our owners don’t have deep pockets argument” if we didn’t go on to spend all the savings from removing Hayes on other players. If they needed that money so badly, they wouldn’t have turned around and spent it.


Those trades range from a 3rd to a 5th, with most in the 4th to 5th range on middle cost players. I will take the extra picks, but the 1st and 2nd are where you find most players and after the 3rd you are in the lottery ticket range.
You are right about that, a 2nd is definitely wishful thinking. But maybe if you can gather enough mid round picks it will be enough to move up into the second if there's a guy out there you like. I'm just spitballing here really, but I do think we need to use the extra space as a weapon to gather as many assets as possible even if they are just used again in other trades.
 
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Celtic Note

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You are right about that, a 2nd is definitely wishful thinking. But maybe if you can gather enough mid round picks it will be enough to move up into the second if there's a guy out there you like. I'm just spitballing here really, but I do think we need to use the extra space as a weapon to gather as many assets as possible even if they are just used again in other trades.
I don’t disagree. But I also want to help us collectively level-set our expectations.


If we get a couple fourths for example (I could see one, but two retentions seems unlikely), even if we pair those, it’s not probable that we move up into a 2nd spot. Maybe we can move our 3rd and a 4th or two but some of that will depend on the position of those picks in the draft order. Given how many picks move in a draft, I am not sure I would hang my hat on being able to pull that off.

This is also heavily relies on a team needing our retention space and yet another willing to trade down. I personally don’t like those odds in comparison to say not making our roster better, wasting a higher pick to move out salary, and in avoiding those moves likely having all of our draft picks slotting up in the draft. We would have to have lot go right on the weaponizing cap front to gain a better return.

This shouldn’t read as I am opposed to weaponizing cap space. You should do so intelligently and in a calculated fashion. To date, I do not believe we have done that. We have used it to help build a better roster and attempt to correct a compounded mistake. Choosing to do that now seems misguided to me. I would much rather we use it for asset accumulation and not at the presumed expense of draft position.
 
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Celtic Note

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So we send a prospect in Bolduc that may very well end up as good or better, then add Dean when the Jets are bent over a barrel?
 

Memento

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McGroarty could be the best player in the deal. He would be another guy in the mold of Neighbours, and has some chemistry with Snuggarud. this may make sense, although I think Bolduc could develop into a good top 6 player and may end up being a better pro than McGroarty.]]]]

I don't know if I'd trade Bolduc and Dean. Bolduc and a third-round pick? Absolutely, I would, even though it would be like pulling teeth (I think Bolduc could be a potential top six wing with forty-goal potential in the right place.), but a top six wing and potential third-line center? I don't know if I'd do that.
 
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